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I grudgingly agree with the people who are saying that it's the resorts business and they are entitled to do what they want.

 

I also know someone who is in the marketing section of a fairly well known resort in Nagano - and they are hurting in a bad way. So it would be interesting to know who these resorts are that are making huge big fat profits. I am pretty sure that there are very few resorts who can currently say they are in that situation.

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yuled, you could look at it the other way and say perhaps those who are not very vocferious about it are fine with commercialised brainwashing, or their level does not warrant commenting?

 

How many people do you actually hear whooping and wailing after a run on the hard pack?

 

On that same hard pack, how many people do you see so pumped they could float to the top of the mountain?

 

Sure there is fun to be had in hard pack, but there is life to be had in powder.

 

[This message has been edited by mogski (edited 31 January 2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by mogski (edited 31 January 2002).]

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Robert, what are the reason's this person is giving for resort hurting?

 

No-one on the side of the resorts has yet to make a good case for them. You all tell us they are hurting, but in what way?

 

They are not making money? I wonder why?

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mogski is a very wise man...

 

Ask me if I believe in god...and

I will respond "I believe in Powder"

it is truly a life-changing/enhancing

experience...

 

any non-believers need only see the light

once, and their lives will be changed forever

 

danz

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Pardon me for drifting back from the "how to operate a resort for 250,000 Tanaka-sans and a dozen foreign powder hounds" -discussion but I got confused on couple of comments.. (not that I wouldn't be confused often)

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by IM:

There are some resorts that have programs to ride in the ungroomed and/or get to back country stuff

Niigata:

Arai (In bound powder areas)

B]

 

 

Yo IM - so this is your view on Arai?

 

And another guy on a another thread is saying the following:

"Just for your information....

Arai, the patrol people are really annoying and watch you all the time, so it is difficult to go off piste. "

 

So, what's the real deal with ARAI?

Will the cops be chasing me again or not? Just curiousity speaking here, I'm heading there this weekend so I'll most likely find out the reality myself, but would be nice to know whether I can boost my hopes high or not.. wink.gif

 

"gettin' some snow, gettin' some riding.."

Kuma

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This is very interesting indeed. Some of you people don't have the first clue about how businesses and marketing work.

 

When you talk about foreigners only wanting to ride powder, you clearly haven't done any research. I've seen Japanese people riding powder. I've been followed by packs of Japanese who are looking for powder. As I mentioned on another thread, the local Nagano news reported that resorts note the numbers of people riding off-piste are increasing. They can't all be danz, badmigraine and me (and sometimes NoFakie).

 

My colleagues who snowboard all say they're bored of riding the piste but don't want to get in trouble going off it. So what do they do? They don't go boarding any more. It really is that simple.

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I love mountains, I love powder, thats why I go backcountry (skins 'n snowshoes). Other people love the ease and relaxation of gelande skiing, so they go to the resorts.Then there's those in between, who want their backcountry but don't like working for it!

 

Sorry for that, I often want the same, a free ride in the backcountry. What I really wanted to comment on, however, is THE FREE RIDE OFF PISTE. Most of he foreigners I have ridden with seem to think that the resorts owe them a free ride. They hang around the bottom of the slopes, hassle locals for their lift tickets (I'll give you your deposit if you give me your lift ticket for six hours riding) and then have the ordasity to complain that the resorts don't cater to their market. The foreign rider market is minute, the number of foreigners who pay for their tickets even smaller.

 

On this bent, how about a quick survey, Who pays full price for their ticket?

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Hey hey hey hey chill out Ocean11!

 

No, I haven't done my research - BUT neither was I serious about that (need to label the jokes better) so take a deep breath...

Clearly there are local powder hounds as well - we all posting here just happen to be the loudest at the moment...

Let's boarding... who knows, maybe we'll bump into each other someday (somewhere off the slopes I presume).

 

Have a good day!

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Ocean11:


I've seen Japanese people riding powder. I've been followed by packs of Japanese who are looking for powder.

My colleagues who snowboard all say they're bored of riding the piste but don't want to get in trouble going off it. So what do they do? They don't go boarding any more. It really is that simple.



Yeah, I'm with Ocean11 here. Face it, it gets boring riding the same slopes over and over again, no matter the variation (hi-speed carving, fakie, etc). And it's by no means only foreigners doing tree-runs, at least not at Kagura when I was there last week.

Just a thought, if we all did real BC and avoided resorts altogether, wouldn't the resorts then lose even more money??

peace
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Yo mogski

 

I've seen loads of people whooping and wailing after pulling some big air off a kicker in the park, so maybe you could be a bit more supportive of them too. Even the good guys wipe out sometimes. It's the only way to learn. It doesn't mean you're a "beginner" in grave danger. Anyway, the only person you're going to hurt is yourself, and the patrol can be quickly alerted if something goes wrong.

 

The people who are not very vociferous about the access to pow issue include SJG. No response to that call to arms there. There are articles about pretty much every other aspect of riding in Japan. Does that mean they're all brainwashed or low-level dudes ? I think not somehow.

 

If everyone ducked the ropes, the pow wouldn't last much longer than it lasts on the regular courses. You'd also have more beginners in there doing traverses and pushing it all down the slope. Good pow+ ticket risk could well be better that official, rapidly consumed pow.

 

Someone mentioned the use of pow in advertising, but let's face it, you've got to be pretty dumb to believe what you see on TV. Take a JAL holiday to Okinawa and you won't get to roll in the sand with Norika Fujiwara. Lots of ladies in lycra dresses won't appear when you drink a Budweiser (though it would be some compensation). Smoking a Mild Seven won't instantly transport you to a jet ski on a lake in the Rockies. Eat lots of chocolate and you won't look like the skinny girl on the advert. The list is endless.

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Try changing the words park and everything else in that little bit about whooping after jumps etc. that refers to hard packed and you have the point I am getting at. This is the DOUBLE STANDARD I can see.

 

 

Regarding SJG and their stance. Putting aside that there is an article re powder skiing in Hokkaido, If you were the mediator of anything wouldn't you want to remain in a nuetral position ? Afterall, if SJG take a stance either way, they will incriminate themselves. They probably have issues that they want to voice too, but can you imagine the s@!t they would get from people like you and me if they voiced it?

 

As for the little bit on "If everyone ducked the ropes...." At least if we were allowed to do it we wouldn't have any issue. It would be our problem for not getting our butts up there early enough to catch the powder.

 

[This message has been edited by mogski (edited 31 January 2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by mogski (edited 31 January 2002).]

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Kuma, please don't take anything I say on here personally. It's just a discussion.

 

As for paying full price, I pay full price whenever I can't get my hands on a coupon, freebie or whatever. I don't go hassling people for their half used ticket, although I have been offered them for nothing. There's nothing wrong with asking though - although to those of you here who don't grasp the basic concepts of free enterprise, it might seem grossly improper. Those of you who put it all down to 'moaning foreigners' or who claim exemption from the realities of economics for the resorts are just showing off your youth and inexperience. tongue.gif

 

Personally I like riding the gelende some of the time. Fast carving is fun. But fast carving with a dash through the woods thrown in is the best.

 

I'm not interested in lobbying the resorts. I'll go, ride where I want, and if anyone hassles me, I'll give 'em hell, and go looking for their manager. All you other kiddies, remember, off-piste riding is WRONG!

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Hi all!

 

Thought it was about time to post after seeing our name pop up there! Yes, a very interesting topic indeed, and one that we are following keenly.....

 

FYI, there are a number of people involved in this site - from skiers to boarders to pow fiends to tech hedz - and we are reading (and discussing) this topic with interest (have been for a few years...) and have thoughts on all that is being said (even the tech hedz).

 

All we can say right now is - hoping for more backcountry features and articles in the near future. (Hakkoda one coming next week...)

 

Keep the posts coming.

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SJG discussing for a few years?!

 

I would take this to mean that perhaps there is no end too or solution in sight in a hell of a hurry.

 

Disheartening... frown.gif

 

Looks like it's time for heavy Gaiatsu folks!!!

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Some places seem to be easing off anyway. Nozawa and Miyoko Suginohara don't seem to be making any effort at all to stop people riding in the trees. Consequently, at Sugi, the pow is nearly all tracked out by the end of the day.

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You shouldn't go under the ropes. What do you think they are put there for?

 

And riding powder is BAD!

 

Please be more considerate of environmental and cultural issues. We are guests in this land and we should strive to follow the rules.

 

I know of no good powder stashes and in fact I have it on good authority that there actually AREN'T any.

 

This year's weather was execrable...most resorts acknowledge a severe lack of accumulated snow, so you'll ruin your bases with deep scratches and core shots from all the poorly-covered rocks and roots littering these so-called powder stashes.

 

Best to stay away, and keep to the groomed slopes!

 

This season, I have taken it upon myself to regularly patrol several roped-off and treed areas where powder was reputed to have been found (there was none), and I was utterly dismayed at what I found.

 

Every time I rode the lift to have a look and plan my next patrol, there were more and more tracks through these areas!

 

You people are very bad and wrong! Stop it.

 

As for SJG discussing this issue for several years, I can confirm this to be true.

 

Why in some of the tracked-out ostensible "pow-pow stashes" (what a joke--there are none! Take my word for it!) that I patrolled and investigated in the name of civic duty, I even found several "SJG" lapel pins, some frozen bits of HTML code, and even some soggy plans to install live web cams behind the grilles of groomers to give full nighttime onslope coverage of the next day's terrain. These SJG guys are apparently scheduling their discussion meetings in areas thought to be powder stashes!

 

Let's keep things simple.

 

Please leave those protected, roped-off areas alone, if not for the sake of small woodland creatures, then to protect the bases of your skis and boards from hidden raspy objects that could ruin both your season AND your budget.

 

On a slightly different topic: as for you marketers out there, you must be telepathic! Almost every weekend I look around at the slopes and think to myself, "you know, what this place really needs is more people!"

 

Thank you for offering to take care of that problem for me! However, I really cannot impose upon you this extra work. Please forget about it and go and buy yourself a beer. You really deserve it! Thank you!

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by badmigraine (edited 04 February 2002).]

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I was watching the evening Niigata news last night and the top guy at GALA was talking about the measures they are having to introduce to make sure that the increasing number of accidents that boarders are having doesn't continue to increase.

 

Looks like they have patrol people hanging around the board park section and advising people to wear the necessary protection clothing etc.

 

Said last year there were over 55 people checking in the local hospital with broken bones......

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With stat's like that I can see no justice in being chased off the off piste areas.

 

Perhaps Gala would be the place to try some rope ducking as the patrol are too busy down at the fun park.

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orum, that don't work my friend.

 

They will take the responsibilty for someone possibly breaking their neck on a huge table top, but not in the trees? I think you get the point.

 

On a good note, here's to Niseko-Hirafu and their attitude. They have the signs out warning you that it is your own responsibilty etc. The patrol guy - whether it be because of the people we were with or not I don't know(thanks for the tour Chalet guys!) - instructed us to wait to hit the trees until he was out of sight.(What a great guy!)

 

This could've just been a rare case I don't know. Whatever way it re-instilled my faith in the growing acceptance of change of peoples terrain wants.

 

Bring that attitude on down through the country folks!

 

Time to create a happy snow population wink.gif

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