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Mmmmmm! Do you think this will go off?

Well, here goes....I had a great time last weekend as a semi-beginner skier, but all the snowboarders really ruined the snow.

The beginners scrape right down the powder like they're using the board as a razor blade and leave a sheet of ice.

The better boarders swish the snow around, leaving mounds of snow and essentially turn the beginner's run into a mogul course with patches of hail stone sized ice balls. No offence, but I keep reading lots of disparaging (sorry, too much Ally McBeal)comments about beginner skiers. Also, you guys complain about skiers stopping everywhere - so do the beginner snowboarders and at least we don't clog up the mountain in groups of 5 or 6 sitting having a natter on our butts.

 

Really don't mean to offend - just curious to see what you all think. (Plus I was a bit peeved the other day when I did fall, a snowboarder literally jumped over me but clipped my head with his board).

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well it could go off, but i think if you look at some of the things that you say objectively, i think you're right on some counts and wrong on others.

 

first off, that icey crust of a surface you are riding on has very little to do with snowboarders and much more to do

with the freeze at night, thaw at day climate that is springtime in the mountains.

 

second, skiers have twice as much edge per person, than do snowboarders, so you can blame yourself as well. i'll admit if there is a thin layer of powder over a sheet of ice or hardpack, that is prime turf for a beginner snowboarder to wreck, but you can't blame the ice on snowboarders. go to a mogul field or go to a skier's only resort and you'll find the exact same conditions, except in the case of a mogul field, the icey terrain is dominated by large, obnoxious icey bumps.

 

i don't know about beginner skiers stopping everywhere, i never really see that, but what drives me up the wall is the beginner skiers (and snowboarders) that make run-length turns, never yielding to the uphill rider. i try to turn out of their way, hoping they will turn the other way, but they just hone in and stay right in your path.

 

with freestyle skiing becoming more and more popular, it's mostly advanced skiers that i see in the terrain parks and half-pipes waiting their turn for the big-air jumps, etc. coincidentally, this is the same type of behavior that skiers always slammed snowboarders for doing. ironic, huh ?

 

as for Ally McBeal, you should really turn that off. clinical studies demonstrate a drop in IQ that is proportional to the amount of time watching Clarissa Flockhart doing anything.

 

as for the snowboarder who air to head-jibbed you, that is just bad behavior. unacceptable and super unsafe. if you see that guy again, you should report him to ski-patrol and watch him get kicked off the hill for good.

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Well... I could say something about 'Skier' if you going to say 'snowboarders ruin the snow'

 

I could say,

'Skiers making mogul courses on the slopes'

which is really unfriendly to snowboarders.

(To B honest, I hate to ride mogul with my snowboard)

 

I was a skier for 8 years since I was a child, but I snowboarding this 4 years.

I understand 'snowboarders ruin....' issue 'cos I was skier and I hate sking on the slope with snowboarders(seriously) but once i started snowboarding, I understand both side's opinion.

 

Resorts are basically 'common space' for snowboarders & Skiers, just forget about 'You snowboaders! ' or 'You skiers' kinda urgument. 'cos not point to compain 'cos winter is best season in the year so skiers & snowboarders should enjoy season together smile.gif

And all of us were(or still) beginner, so just don't complain & enjoy the season!

 

P.S.

Sakura is soooooooooo beautiful in out side but.... I think my calendar is still in mid-March. .... Oh my goodness.

 

P.P.S.

Am off to Kandatsu this Saturday.

Anyone will b there?

 

[This message has been edited by Nat (edited 19 March 2002).]

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Actually, Sharon is right on the main points. Snowboards_do_cut up powder worse than skis, especially if a novice is just snowploughing down it, or wallowing about in it.

 

The prevalence of Japanese magazines with 'Ret's enjoy powder snow fun' articles leads (I suspect) to the greater numbers of these types ruining the freshies in the morning. I know beginners have to start somewhere and somehow, but they really should master the basics on the gelende.

 

Snowboards also create their own equivalent of moguls, but they are lower and broader based than ski moguls so they're easier to get over. This is something that I noticed for the first time at Suginohara in the powder runs near the top after hundreds of boarders and no skiers had been down.

 

Any boarder who has to jump to avoid a less competent rider is out of control and should be saving their dashing for less crowded areas. Intolerable behaviour. mad.gif However, I did enjoy riding a quad and listening to the truly brainless chatter of two skier girlies next to me, about how fun boarding looked. Then on the gelende passing below us, a skier who was practising some extreme carving exercise involving lifting up one leg, cut up a boarder and knocked him down. The response of the girlies - "Yappa, board-tte abunai yo ne".

 

So yes indeed, there are dangerous people of both persuasions, and skis and boards wreak their own type of havoc with the snow.

 

But boarding is much more cool, more fun, and safer. tongue.gif

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I have to say that this is quite interesting.

 

I think that the problem is not enough people are drinking vast quantities before going skiing/boarding.

 

If you are hungover, you tend to sit at the top of the hill and concentrate on not vomiting. Clearly this means you are not going down the hill and making moguls be it on a board or skis.

 

It isn't difficult to appreciate the merits of this system.

 

I wonder if it will catch on?

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One plank, two plank; makes no difference from where I sit.

 

Boarders & skiers turn. Boarders & skiers traverse. Boarders & skiers like powder. Boarder & skiers like to drink.

 

Sharon I can understand your dilemma, but I don't think this is something that can be blamed on boarders nor skiers. It is a beginner trait to rip away the snow, sit down in the middle of course etc.

 

I am not about to rip up on beginers becasue we were all one once. I am afraid if you are a beginner you must learn to get used to it and ski/board to allocate for it. It only gets worse the better you get.

 

Do we have to keep blaming the difference in the number of planks on our feet for all the little nigley things that happen on the slopes?

 

Peace to us all! smile.gif

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if i could say something about beginner snowboarders,

(lets say the ski field has only one halfpipe,) i hate the way they decide to try the halfpipe although they only learnt to turn both ways the week before,

they ride in from the top with no speed, ride halfway up the wall, jump a little, landing parallel to the lip and sideslip down, cutting huge chunks out of the previously well-shaped wall.

(especially in spring)

so the wall turns into a vicious nose-catching kinked atrocity.

i think for halfpipe preservation, there should ba a mandatory 9 or 10 metre gap jump directly above it,

to scare off all the beginners.

 

just my opinion,

btw, im a snowboarder.

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I think we can blame Allah for ruining last weekend's conditions before the lifts started moving. It wasn't as if there was lots of on-course "powder" to be scraped, at least not in Nagano.

 

Other than that, I'm with mogski.

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Like Ski Japan Guide, I'm glad it stayed friendly and I was interested to read the other sides opinions. As to the weather being the cause, of course I realise that and I was only referring to a day in Niseko started off with perfect powder but only 3 hours later was a minefield of ice balls and snow mounds. I'm a beginner and I know that we must really annoy advanced skiers and snowboarders (sumimasen) but is there any where that a gelende is split in two with a beginners side and an advanced side. Otherwise, I, a beginner, have to stick to the red runs and later be terrified about coming back down the mogul spiked gelende at rush hour.

 

As to Ally McBeal - you're totally right, but after 9 years in Japan, we get pretty desperate for English in any form......I have even known intelligent male professionals to have excited discussions about the latest goss on Beverly Hills!!!????!!! That's desperation!

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Sorry to come in late on this one, but, the carving up of slopes has generally got nothing to do with the `Snowboarder v. skier` debate. I find that if a slope turns into a mogul field it`s generally because it`s a little bit steeper, and as such it`s rated as a slope for advanced or intermeadiate ski/sno-ers. How are these two point related? - foolish people who don`t pay attention to signs. If a sign says, "this course is for bad-ass skiers/snowboarders only", then logic dictates that a person who`s only been out twice should stay away - but they don`t.

 

Take Nozawa`s Skyline course for example. On a good day, at 8:30 in the morning, this is the best groomed slope in Nagano. There`s never anybody about, as such you can just blast down it at disgustiing speed, without having to constantly look down at the slope to see what`s coming next - awesome feeling. Come back to this slope at 4 o`clock and it looks like a World Cup Moguls run, the reason is plain to see, every man and his wife, 2 year-old kid and dog is sideling down because they`ve just realised that the slope is a little bit above their level. "kowai, kowai", "yabee" I hear people shreek as they unintentionally get huge air off monster moguls.

 

The main reason slopes get messed up, is people not recognizing their level, thus ruining it for others.

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Sorry to come in late on this one, but, the carving up of slopes has generally got nothing to do with the `Snowboarder v. skier` debate. I find that if a slope turns into a mogul field it`s generally because it`s a little bit steeper, and as such it`s rated as a slope for advanced or intermeadiate ski/sno-ers. How are these two point related? - foolish people who don`t pay attention to signs. If a sign says, "this course is for bad-ass skiers/snowboarders only", then logic dictates that a person who`s only been out twice should stay away - but they don`t.

 

Take Nozawa`s Skyline course for example. On a good day, at 8:30 in the morning, this is the best groomed slope in Nagano. There`s never anybody about, as such you can just blast down it at disgustiing speed, without having to constantly look down at the slope to see what`s coming next - awesome feeling. Come back to this slope at 4 o`clock and it looks like a World Cup Moguls run, the reason is plain to see, every man and his wife, 2 year-old kid and dog is sideling down because they`ve just realised that the slope is a little bit above their level. "kowai, kowai", "yabee" I hear people shreek as they unintentionally get huge air off monster moguls.

 

The main reason slopes get messed up, is people not recognizing their level, thus ruining it for others.

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Snapper, I'm not talking about an intermediate or advanced run, I'm talking about the beginner gelende that leads down the last lap to Hirafu. The reason it gets like that is the traffic, sure, but what I wanted to say was that if the traffic was merely beginner skiers, it would not end up like the terrifying minefield it was. Of course it wouldn't stay as perfectly groomed as when I was on it the day before (much less traffic) but beginner snowboarders tend to go down the hill with their feet and board horizontal, therefore scraping all the top layers of powder and leaving just the hard, compacted ice that has been there a long time. The moguls come from the better snowboarders who are spraying the snow from one side to the other as they whoosh most elegantly down the mountain. Thus, beginner skiers, like myself actually feel more comfortable on the red runs - few people go near them so the powder remains and makes for a much easier trip.

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sounds like a bum deal about the snowboarder using your head like a rail slide, but maybe he/she was to close behind you and had no choice but to bunny hop you to prevent serious injury to you and himself/herself. about the snow thing and the crowdes runs. shoganai. where's there are mass crowds and popular runs you can't avoid situations like that. you have to just be careful and always take a glance or two before turning in to the run to see if there's some joker(skier and or snowboarder) hauling a** recklessly down the hill.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by no ginger:
sounds like a bum deal about the snowboarder using your head like a rail slide, but maybe he/she was to close behind you and had no choice but to bunny hop you to prevent serious injury to you and himself/herself. about the snow thing and the crowdes runs. shoganai. where's there are mass crowds and popular runs you can't avoid situations like that. you have to just be careful and always take a glance or two uphill before turning in to the run to see if there's some joker(skier and or snowboarder) hauling a** recklessly down the hill.
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Sharon in Hiroshima - i agreed to an extend with what your saying but not all of it.

 

When your talking about beginner slopes I don't think it matters if it is beginner snowboarders or skiers, people who cant hold an edge are going to push the snow rather than carve through hence big moguls.

 

To try to pin it on skiers is both ignorant and clearly you are out to start a fight. If thats what youre after then Ill see you in Kembys anytime - Talisker in Hiroshima

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Kembys is a bar in Hiroshima - I believe you live there and although Laphroig is a fine whiskey I would never dream of hitting you with it.

 

I think you misunderstod the tone of my reply mere jest my sincerest apologies. (hic)

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