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yup...

 

very interesting as usual...

 

but I don't agree with one point...

this guy says the only way things will change at resorts in Japan is with a major paridgm shift in the collective japanese mentality...

does he seriously believe this is possible???

 

I don't like how he justifies the state of japanese resorts compared to other countries based on notions of "herd-mentality" and "cultural norms"...things will never change if you don't start thinking outside the box...and if he is any gauge of the stance of japanese ski patrollers in general, then we are in for a looooong trip...

 

my 2cents

 

danz

 

when does winter start again??

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Oh yeah, matey certainly learned a lot about the difference between Japanese and Europeans, but didn't seem to notice that we don't admire hypocrites - "Finally, I'm looking forward to skiing out of bounds in some other part of the world with you perhaps in the future." Ko-kun, I hope you read this.

 

It looks like Arai have come up with a recipe for forcing themselves to shut down their whole resort on the whim of one or two determined boarders. "Sorry, we're closing down this run and this run and that run, because there are some tracks going off them. Now please proceed quietly to the onsen. We look forward to seeing you again."

 

How about getting up to date with avalanche control, and having a proper system for preparing people for off-piste as they used to have at Cortina?

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Whether they "have a proper system" or not is surely their own business decision, n'est pas? It's a decision they've made.

 

Have you ever thought that they might just now want to deal with the whole issue, and attract a different breed of rider?

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Interesting approach-guess I won't be in a hurry to go to Arai as I'm likely to spoil everyones day by closing down the mountain. I am very careful going out of bounds and will continue to do so without putting myself or others at risk. He's got a point about the herd mentallity-try crossing a busy intersection here when the light is red and someone is bound to follow you without checking the traffic at all.

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brit-gob, what is your POINT exactly?

 

Are you trying to suggest that customers of resorts should not discuss the sort of service provided there?

 

Or perhaps you want to say that there is some sort of sport-wide orthodoxy that is threatened by those who like some variety, and you and the resorts, as a team, are determined to crush this threat?

 

brit-gob, are you always totalling accepting of 'decisions that've been made'?

 

Resorts obviously can't 'just not deal with the whole issue' and riders, being what they are, will push the issue. I've seen all sorts of 'breeds of rider' making their way down dodgy off-piste terrain, and I can't quite see how the resorts are going attract one sort or the other, or even differentiate between them. I suppose when they see 'ickle pretty with her all-new Kissmark gear turn up, they don't picture her snow-ploughing her way down Avalanche Ravine, but chances are she'll have a go - I've seen her try. What do you propose Arai should do about it?

 

So, brit-gob, if you don't LIKE discussions, pray stay away from places marked 'Forum', otherwise, find something less fatuous to say than 'c'est la vie' and some passive-aggressive equivalent of 'shut-up'.

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Oh no, here we go again smile.gif

 

I suppose I am accepting of decisions that have been made by a ski resort and the way they do business, yeah, ocean. I'm not about to get stressed out over something so unimportant - just go to another resort mate and chill out.

 

I thought it was interesting to read what a patrol guy had to say about it all.

 

Perhaps ARAi mountain just don't want ocean11 to be on their hill.

 

Sorry for wasting space on your forum, ocean - I will try to be more constructive in posting messages, as you always are.

 

wave.gif

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 Quote:
Resorts obviously can't 'just not deal with the whole issue' and riders, being what they are, will push the issue.


What? Wrong. A-eeer (buzzer sound).
Yes, they can "just not deal with the whole issue". Isn't that what they are doing now, and will continue to do for the most part?

What point are you missing in all this???

SL

PS I want to go all over the mountain too, just find that the resort-bashers are thinking only from their own narrow perspective for the most part.

OK, flame time now I presume.
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Yeah, it's an interesting read. The contradictions within it are ... stimulating.

 

brit-gob, let me ask you a personal question. You don't go off-piste? Is that because you can't or don't like it, or is it on principle because you've been told not to? I'm very curious to know if what you say and what you do are the same thing.

 

And SL, have you read the report in question? Arai obviously thinks they're dealing with the situation, but they've just chosen the most arse-about-face way of doing it. Imagine, you're riding down the groomies like a good boy (on your skis no less), and some wakner in a red suit comes over and says "Excuse me, but we just found some boarder tracks heading off from this course you're riding on. Would you please go to another, rather more crowded course that you don't particularly want to be on, because we're SEALING OFF THE SCENE OF THE CRIME (lest you can't overcome your genetic impulse to follow the tracks)." I don't call that 'not doing anything'. What point are YOU missing?

 

Chillin'... Your 007

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Thank you very much for reading the article and discussing it. I've felt for years now that we need more dialogue on the issue.

 

Please understand that there are some mountains that you can safely ski out-of-bounds, and others where you cannot. ARAI is a mountain where you cannot safely ski out-of-bounds.

 

Imagine the feeling of going to a ski resort with three friends and returning only with two. Also try to picture what it would feel like knowing that your intentional action had harmed others.

 

Is endangering the lives of others really worth it?

 

Blair.

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SL, do you always go back to first principles??

 

Yes, there are signs saying Keep Out, but they're placed in locations that are both safe and ideal for practising what is a major aspect of the sport. So people ignore them, and also the signs that are placed in the really dangerous locations. Hence the danger. Hence the requirement of resorts to get their crap together.

 

SL, have you been snowboarding?

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SL, yes I have been a few times which is why I know a bit about it. From your questions, it really seems like it's all a bit theoretical to you.

 

Blair, thanks for the interesting article. I accept your point about the dangers, but doesn't what you say suggest that some industry-wide evaluation and standards are called for? After all 'trees' and 'avalanches' are a different sort of hazard, but no differentiation is made.

 

Actually, no, scratch that. It doesn't matter. We don't care. Me, brit-gob and SL'll all just do as we're told and forget powder. I've forgotten about it already...

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ocean11...

 

the herd mentality is taking you prisioner...

break free...come play in the powder...

 

speaking of herd mentality...I was thinking about it some more, and the reason why I enjoyed powder days so much in japan is because the "herd mentality" is to stay IN BOUNDS!... there are really not that many poachers in japan...you can ski freshies all day at mid-size resorts...the tracks are there, but they are all mine, and maybe a few other black sheep!

 

all this talk of powder is making me sad...i am sweating in my office now...

 

danz

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Hi danz. It's still chilly in my home office, but it won't be for long. I'm actually looking forward to getting started with wheelie boards, although I wouldn't mind a romp in some powder if it were available.

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Is that right about o/b being a criminal offence in Colorado? More on this please.

 

I mentioned this with regard to the last Arai article, but I don't think it qualifies as your average Japanese resort. The hill has a large "conditional" area and has signposts up for people who want to hike up beyond the top lift to a large open bowl in that area. It has a far more powder available that most resorts I can think of. It's not just the usual narrow courses next to probably-safe-but-closed-off trees type of deal. Unlike such tree areas that have probably never seen more than the odd broken bone, the o/b areas at Arai have claimed several lives. This in spite of the signs saying not "danger" but "cliff" and "waterfall". It would appear that some of the anti-Arai comment is coming from people who've never even been there.

 

If safe areas are roped off at other resorts, that's not Arai's fault. If such bogus signs teach people to ignore warnings, it becomes Arai's problem. I don't think closing the runs is a good solution, but it sounds more like a threat than something they do on a regular basis.

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There are always at least two sides to a story and absolutism is inevitably wrong. The zettai dame approach to non-gelande riding or the attitude that you can do anything you like represent these sides in this particular one. Where is the sensible middle ground, compromise or solution? I'm not sure and I've never been to Arai to be able to comment on the situation there, but I do have something to say about the absolute policy at a certain Hakuba resort.

 

Once after being apprehended by patrol at said resort for out of bounds riding I asked for a full outline of where I couldn't ride. Most of the banned terrain was in areas where riders couldn't be putting others at risk-no matter what the snow conditions are.

 

I can of course accept that it is wrong to put others at risk, but life is full of risks and I'm willing to take that of riding offpiste in a responsible way. I ride within my limits and don't make the decision of what line to take recklessly.

 

Point is I police myself constantly, and feel safer off piste than I do on it a lot of the time. I can respect that this resort has their rules but can't accept their point of view. Laws and rules are not always right and resistance to them may be necessary to encourage positive change.

 

I would love things to change at this resort but me huffing and puffing will only change my stress levels.Anyways the solution to this situation for me is to ride at another certain resort instead. Here it is clearly stated that riding out of bounds is dangerous and that you do so at your own risk. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

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Guilty as charged - not been, though I'd like to.

 

But I do understand that as Blair said, the place has its dangers, and bogus signs at other places is a problem for Arai. Hence the need for some industry standards.

 

Agree with Davo on everything. Except that we should not just go somewhere else every time.

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Kinda agree with Davo's thinking on this one.

 

Have enough stress without adding to it complaining/worrying about something that will not change because of it.

 

Interesting to read that tho, thanks.

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