damian 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Misia, thanks for your response. In your case you have otther influences that preclude you from taking part. But I wonder about your friends and those with similiar feelings, ie: >> Also actually my friends don't feel like snowboard right now until all is open and much snow. This is not an attack on you or your friends, I am just trying the gauge the psychology of the buyer here. Why wouldn't they feel like going now? Lets take the current snow conditions and compare them to end of season conditions. For how many weeks at the end of the season is the snow WORSE than what is available now? Link to post Share on other sites
mina2 6 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 You lot have a lot of energy and time to spare don't ya? Feel like you could manage the companies yaself? Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 none of you really like skiing/boarding do you? Otherwise you would be out hiking it to get a few uncrowded untracked ungroomed runs in instead of just moaning. And you should check with your local ski hill as there are some opening on the weekends as of Saturday. Its gonna be good!! Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I hiked a little on the weekend mate, but it was on a country road trying to get home. I do think that there are resorts open that perhaps not everyone here knows of. On the shin. to nagaono there was a rowdy group of local boarders. I noticed them as they were rowdy, but mainly because I figured on following them to the snow. Given that they were on a train I thought that they would take public transport right to the slopes. However I fell asleep on the train and when when I awoke, well before naggers, they were no longer on board. They were all geared for a day in the snow. I wonder where they were going? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 'scuse me jared while I give up my job... oh, but there's no point, I really don't like telemarking anyway...anyone want some skins? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Since we're on the subject frannyo, a long line of airheads have already posted the same nah-nah-nah-nah response as you just did. Let's have a quick look at it anyway. - Funny... I was waiting for that response > Now c'mon, we all know that's a fib... - You must have been busy with something else. > Right for once. Running my business. It's not that difficult, but somehow I seem to make a buck. - As long as you believe that, then that's fine > Actually, I made a case, there's no belief involved. You haven't made any attempt to refute it. Because you're not equipped to. - perhaps you should be in resort management rather than translating work. > Yawn. Ho-hum. - But I'm sure you get some satisfaction out of it anyway. Well done > Being able to think for oneself is its own reward. I don't need any congratulations from you. Next time, try posting something with relevant content, then I won't have to get personal in discussing it... Let's hope that some resorts a bit nearer Tokyo open soon so deebee doesn't have to trek to Hakuba everytime. Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 so if the resort was open you would be working anyway miteyak? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Was at Hak 47 for it's opening. If (enough) resorts are open, i'll be there next weekend. If not, i'll go BC. My points were based on business though, not what I want. I'm easy, in fact, closed resorts stop me being lazy. I like a bit of resort skiing at the beginning of the season though, to brush up on technique. Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 your right there, spend ages hiking and building jumps but in doing that I dont get the milage to really warm up so I can do it properly. Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Resorts never know when the season is going to start. Nothing changes this from year to year. They have to build this uncertainty into their business plan. The resorts in the US open when the snow is there. Obviously if there is a huge dump in October they might get caught off guard, but you would never hear them say they refuse to open until an arbitrary date in December. You think it may have something to do with the percentage of riders that go as an actual planned vacation versus those that just go up for the day on a whim? I look forward to reading Blair's article. I don't see where you get off attacking Ocean for his view on this. All I see is him making calculated, non-insulting statements, and then backing them up with real reasoning. Then people come back with one line "No you are wrong", "No how can you be so stupid", "Ha ha, will this guy ever learn?" End of post. What? Where is your reasoning? It's like you think everyone is so dumbfounded by the ridiculousness of Ocean's point of view that it is not worth your time to even dignify a valid response. Come on. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 You know the great thing is how strongly we all feel about this......fun read in a morning! Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Higuma 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Ok.. I'll risk it and weigh in on this one... I, for the most part, agree with the point of veiw that most of the J-resort business planners would appear to be a bunch of dolts..... I have been made to believe, in my short tenure here, that too many decisions in business in Japan are made simply "because" or "because that's the way things are" - back to the shikataganai(sp?) thread... And this would apprear, from first flush, to be why resorts can't open in response to an "Opportunity" having been created for them by the weather gods.... I also understand the arguements based on - supplier cop-out - employee cop-out - weather uncertainy cop-out... but I also think they are just that.... Cop-outs for Lazy Assed planners who are too busy trying to squeeze a few yen out of what they believe to be a certainty rather that going out on a limb and taking a chance to cash in on a potential Bonanza.... Hence the "It's spring, the snow is crap, people want to picnic and if we don't pack em in here we're in trouble business plan"... And we wonder why J-Economy is in the crapper - Come folks "Take a Chance" - "You can't Win the Lottery unless you actually BUY a Ticket" - - DUHHH!.... Alas - I've been using that word far too much - there will always be Leaders (shepards) and Followers (sheep).... Perhaps it's as simple as the resorts that are currently opening and taking advantage are being Leaders... Remember, not all people and Corps are comfortable Leading their industry - some would rather just follow and that's Ok too, just a little too safe and too Chicken Sh~t if you ask me.... Hence the " We're #1, we strive to be the best - We're #2, we try harder and We're #3, we don't try at all" mentallity..... Now, On a completely different thought... A freind once said that in the early season if a hill is skied on too much then the base becomes compressed too fast and can lead to season long icy conditions... Kinda like the snow needs to compress slowly to "season" it so to speak.. something to do with the air in snow insulating it from the warm ground and not transmitting warmth to the surface of the snow and creating a perpetual snow / thaw / freeze..... cycle... Anybody have any technical experience with snow??? "SHIELDS UP" Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Higuma - you are silly and wrong. get a life, wake up, smell the coffee. Link to post Share on other sites
misia 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I spoke 2 my friend today about it. They are good and intelligent people so please do not say bad thing about them, they are just different from you and maybe not so crazy about ski board as you are. OK? They are not interest in skiing or board right now because; - not prepared ( I think equipment and maybe in mind also). not tuned up ski yet. - it's not really winter yet, so mind is not in ski mode - not good snow yet and very few place open Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 misia... please dont think that I was being rude about your friends. Not at all my intention. Thankyou for your response. I also spoke to every local person I knew that was interested in snow sports. Nearlly all of them just couldn't grasp why people would ski in november, it quite simply didn't compute. It was like watching a computer stuck on an illogical statement. It appeared that at the root of all their reasons, November is not the month to start skiing, December is. It was that binary, any alternative just didnt compute. It was almost impossible to get them to focus on the fact that there is snow (and by some accounts better snow than for the last 3-4 weeks of the season) and resorts are running lifts. This info almost seemed redundant to them, after all, skiing starts in December, not November. Link to post Share on other sites
misia 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Yes, but I don't understand so well some point. Even now there is only handful of resort that is open. There is not many place open. And now weather is heavy rain. And even if resort now open they have maybe have only 1 or 2 lift open. So for many people that is not really attractive for a snow holiday. I think so too. It is expensive so for people like us (not mad crazy every week) we want better condition. I think if really good snow in many place and all open and cold weather people might consider, it but like now? I don't think so. I think you are special for crazy ski-kichigai and sunobo-kichigai!! then you want to do even not good conditions Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 You have a point. If the snow is average compared to peak season, then why rush. I suppose it is a little like many Europeans who just dont bother hitting the slopes if the weather is overcast or it is snowing. To them there is little point as the relative conditions just don't merit the effort and expense. For example, Arai has >100cm snow, seems a lot, but this is what they had last season. Perhaps that expalins their 'whats the rush to open' approach: Snow Depth Nov 0 cm Snow Depth Dec 195 cm Snow Depth Jan 440 cm Snow Depth Feb 558 cm Snow Depth Mar 560 cm Snow Depth Apr 425 cm Snow Depth May 173 cm Link to post Share on other sites
akibun 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I agree with misia and it's true. I am very much like snowboarding but I don't really feel like going before now. Only very small place is yet open and really not much snow at all. It's ok another people go if they want, but I don't think many people. Like misia say, ski-kichigai people time now. So resort don't feel it enough to open because they would lose money I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 You can ride on 1 m and have a great time. Especially if you haven't been for as long as you can remember. And it's fresh, and doesn't look like used toilet paper as it does in the spring... Link to post Share on other sites
fukdane 2 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I believe one point being made was rather that not a large % of people do not want to go out now. Even if there is a meter. And I believe another point being made was that many people want to take their winter snow holidays in the peak of the season when rather than at the beginning and in spring. Link to post Share on other sites
Higuma 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by deebee: Higuma - you are silly and wrong. get a life, wake up, smell the coffee. Oh that's adult!!! Not sure what I said to warrent that childish Outburst... But let me just say this... Oh yah... Well, I'm rubber and you're glue and everthing you say bounces off me and sticks to you.... NAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh....... I did not mean to insult anyone with my veiws and this is why I am a little puzzled by your post Deebee... Quite frankly I kinda agree with your thoughts on the matter... Hummmmmm... BTW - Silly? I sure hope so - it's the only thing keeping me sane... Wrong? Usually about 30% of the time.. How about you? Get a life - Had a decent one already for 40 years and now I'm working on #2 here in Japan - How about you? Wake up - God this must be a weird dream or something then... Smell the coffee - Actually I prefer tea... Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Sorry Higuma, I tried to be sarcastic. I also agree with your thoughts. I was attempting very poorly to poke fun at the "well if thats your reasoned opinion, you are silly. I dont agree with you..... because I don't" Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Don't worry deebee - I spotted the attempt, and had a snigger. Higs, that suggestion about the ice is interesting. I wonder if there's any 'substance' to that. It seems mildly plausible. --- I think one reason people don't want to go early in the season is because they don't realize how good it can be. And that's because nobody's told them effectively. Link to post Share on other sites
nori-chan 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 The is reasons why I don't want to go now. It includes: there is not much snow, there is not many course open, only couple resort open, not too cold and winter-like yet etc. I don't have much money and only go few times in a year and want to plan my winter holiday well and in advance. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 It seems to me that the majority of people generally would not go skiing or snowboarding now even if they knew places were open. Certainlty that not enough people would go to justify it for resorts that were able to open. The people posting hundreds (and even thousands! ) of messages on this forum are by definition the ski/board-kichigai people that the Japanese posters are talking about in previous posts. They aren't the "average" skier or snowboarder, who wants to generally hit the slopes in the winter season on their (usually planned) holiday - when there's lots of nice snow, everywhere is open, etc etc. The heavy-posting people here are surely in the minority who are desperate to hit the hills at the earliest opportunity. I'm also a little confused about the issue of there being an abundance of snow right now. It seems to me that there isn't. From the way some people are talking, you'd think there were meters of powder lying around at every resort. Hakuba does seem to have some snow, but I'm sure it's not amazing and of an incredible depth - especially after the torrential rains of the last day or two. And from other reports it seems that there is no real snow depth and that hardly anywhere at all is open, and if they are it is limited. Where are all these places that have so much snow they "should" be open? Anyway, I myself am going to wait until the season gets underway proper for my first time. For those of you going out earlier - I really do hope that you enjoy it and have a great time (and hope you're not disappointed at all). For those waiting a bit longer like me - well, we'll just wait a bit more until the conditions are ones that we're happy with.... Link to post Share on other sites
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