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A new Setting Journals feature, "Why Don't We Open Early?" has been put online. The subject of resorts opening early or not has been hotly debated on the Forums over the last few months.

 

This feature brings you the views of one resort. Agree or disagree with what has to be said, please keep the conversation friendly and constructive ;\)

 

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/features/setting-journals-7.html

 

Discuss it here....

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All well said now its time to turn part of that hotel you closed down into something a little more affordable. If you dont do that you will still have all those seasons pass holders camping in the parking lot and a hotel 66% open. And that doesnt mean full that means the 1/3 you closed this year.

 

I dont care if you open early but lets get to the crux of the problem. The resort is too expensive and out of the way for a lot of people.

 

I suggest you start to rethink your plan. You understand that the core of your users are powder hounds. People who ski powder in general do not have the same disposable income.

 

I dont think Arai can and will be able to survive because resorts in Japan will start to open their boundries and the lure of Arai will slip, snow or no snow.

 

Make that damm 10 minute hard walk from the car to the lift easier.

 

Make your hotel cheaper offer the seasons pass holders bunk beds for 2000 a night and they will get out of the cars.

 

Try if you can to open more easy terrain cause I would never bring my kids there.

 

Start thinking about the future more or you will just be reducing the size of the resort as you did last year.

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Hi there! Interesting.

 

I don't agree with you Fattwins at all.

 

There is a market for the more expensive resort. And some people like to go to a luxurious resort rather than bunk down for 2000 yen. (Myself being one of those people).

 

I would most definitely choose that resort and hotel over any cheap place. They are not going to (and not trying to) appeal to someone who just wants to lay their head for as little as possible - it's just a different market altogether.

 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

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Ok but not when you target a group of people that ski powder. These same people wait at ropes while patrolers open up the terrain.

 

Do you know the history of Arai? They have had to shut down about 33% of their services this year. Does that sound like a resort thats making money or understands their target market, not to me. If you are not an upper itermedate rider you cant enjoy Arai, its a wild resort.

 

My 2000 yen a night sugjestion is about tring to get revenue from a hotel that closed 33% of its beds.

Why not make money another way instead of just closing things and hoping that will help, it doesnt.

 

This resort needs to think harder about how to stay in bussiness. They designed it during the bubble, "pop"! the bubble broke. I will be hard pressed to justify paying 3 man to 4 man for a hotel room for 2 people.

 

Fact Arai misses 100% who their market is.

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Veronica

 

Nice hotels are great if you can afford them. As you can tell from the photos in the article, the Arai hotels look lovely. The point here though is that however pampered you may be in those hotels, there's a very good chance that the weather on the hill is not going to pamper you at all. People talk about fresh powder and great views on sunny mornings and all that, but you've got to be very lucky to get such conditions. Regardless of what nice pictures you put in your brochure, people soon get the idea. 5m accumulates at Arai because it snows much of the time.

 

The guys staying in the car park want good snow and good terrain (or that nice pipe). They'll go out even if the weather is terrible from the "non-powder hound" viewpoint. As Fattwins says, Arai is treading a dangerous path if it wants to be a powder resort and doesn't cater to people with the fortitude required to put up with the weather there and/or the ability to make the most of what they're offering.

 

As for the article, it explains their policy and I can understand it for that. The comment about needing 1.5m to 2m to groom properly strikes me as a little excessive.

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Veronica - I don't think Fattwins was suggesting that the entire resort be changed into a bunk room, I think he was suggesting that they could provide both - the cheaper option being in the closed down portion which the well healed are no longer useing. Closing parts down makes no sence to me as they then recieve no return instead of making it cheaper and more basic and recieving at least some money for it.

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My point Jared you hit it on the nose.

 

Last year while riding in March, sking that is. The resort handed out a newsletter "Changes at Arai".

Along with the closing of part of the hotel, shops and some restaurants closed. There was a list of at least 6 points but I cant remember them all. But my friend has the paper if you wnat a translation I can get it in a couple of days.

 

Point being they miss their market.

I feel that opening early is not important but understanding who uses you resort is.

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Didn't you know?

 

All these vociferous people here are high-flying business experts*, proven in the field of resort management. So of course they know, and have all the details of any particular resorts business operation laid out in front of them. How naive of you to question them? Don't you know anything??

 

;\)

 

\:D

 

\:\(

 

* well, eigo-senseis at least!

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Hello, this is my first post here after reading for about 2 years. I thought I'd take the plunge, and this topic seemed like a good one to start with.

 

My family and I live in Tokyo - myself, husband and 2 children (one 3 years old and the other 7 years). We went to ARAI last season and had a delightful time. We wanted a good family holiday at a place that had good snow for us, and was good for the children. We couldn't have asked for more.

 

The hotels are beautiful, the food great, the staff really helpful. It was a really nice experience. While it wasn't cheap, we didn't expect it to be - we wanted a special holiday experience and that's what we got. No complaints.

 

From our point of view the place was perfect for the kids - they have some really excellent childrens facilities there (better than anywhere else I have seen in Japan) and the snow and skiing was really good. They certainly get a lot of snow there.

 

We went on our second choice of weekend - our initial request was not possible because the hotels were all full. When we went it seemed full then too.

 

Anyway, just our experiences there. I think the resort is in many ways aimed at families like ourselves, and we were more than happy with it and will be going back this season.

 

Thanks

Christine

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here's a question...

 

so ARAI always stands by its opening date...lets flip the situation here...let say the season is off to a really really slow start, and come opening date ARAI has less than 1m of snow...what happens then?? do they still open? has this happened before? if so, how did they deal? Could a similar plan be devised for when the snow comes extra early??? curious...

 

also, I was also a bit suprised to hear about the 1.5m-2m base required for decent groomers...I have skied wonderful groomed runs on the East Coast in the US where there was no more than 20" of snow (about 50cm...), and that aint no lie! of course it doesn't look so pretty at the end of the day, but still...1.5m seems like more than enough to do the job...what is so special about that number??

 

What I would really really love to see is a comparative report of how ARAI is run (or any japanese resort) to how a comparable US/Canadian resort is run...I am sure the differences would be enlightening, and the similarities suprising!

 

bring it on...

 

danz

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I am a believer in snowmaking you can never count on mother nature. The plan, push back the opening date its the only thing that they can do.

 

Snow and how much they need depends on the terrain. If the rocks are big then they have to cover them. East coast in general has more grass and fewer rocks. Jackson hole needs at least 1 meter to open.

 

Christine you made my point as a family how many times can you return to that resort and justify the cost. Once a year? An important part of the resort bussiness is to get return guests. it costs little or nothing to generate their bussiness, if they like it and can afford it. But be lets be real how many of those trails could your 7 year old ski. The 5km one only maybe.

 

Another thing if the people in the parking lot dont want to pay, charge them for the over night stay ie camping spot rental.

 

I knew guys last year camping for six days with seasons passes.

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As a family we will go 2 or 3 times in a season for a few nights each time.

 

Our children had a fine time, Fattwins - the younger one being looked after and playing and the 7 year old on his favorite course. The snow has always been great there for us.

 

Of course I don't know this, but I would take a guess that for a place like Arai a larger than normal % of their money will come from hotel guests rather than lift tickets. And families like us who want to stay in style in that kind of hotel and enjoy the restaurants as well as ski make up a good proportion of their business. Maybe the writer could let us in a bit on that?

 

Whatever is the case, we like the place and it suits our needs well!

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To quote from another thread,

 

"Statistically, ARAI has been getting 60% Boarders and 40% Skiers.

 

Thank you very much"

 

I don't picture snowboarders generally being as likely to stay overnight in pricey hotels as skiers, given the overall demographic, but of course Blair could probably comment definitively on that.

 

But if Arai gets more boarders, it seems doubly strange that their website should refer so much to skiing as if it were targeted only at skiers. Is that the case? If so, then what Fattwins says about them not knowing their clientele seems to be correct.

 

Anyway, I look forward to going and seeing the place for myself. I could do with a bit of wild...

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In an earlier article, the patrol guy at Arai said

 

"Again though we go back to the fact that nine out of every ten boarders or skiers are not really that good."

 

"Japanese guests in general do not really know how to enjoy mountains & ski fields, they are actually more interested in taking a bath"

 

I would imagine his observations are based on the kind of Japanese people that stay in the Arai hotels, not the guys that camp in the car park and hike the peak.

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If nothing else, this thread has been a great advertisement for Arai's snow quality. With all this talk of powder i'm off to see if i can find a spare weekend (or better still - couple of weekdays) in the schedule for this year.

 

By the way, i have to at least make some objection to the presumption that in general powderhounds do not have much disposable income. Yes, there is and always will be a core group of nomad powderhounds who will chase the best snow and sleep in the parking lot. It happens everywhere - and to be honest i don't think it would matter if you did offer bunk beds at 2000 yen - my guess is they would still sleep in the parking lot simply because that's their style. That said, a helluva lot of the riders who do have a healthy piggy bank love to ride the powder just as much as anyone else - and will pay for the pleasure.

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You have a good point there, Antonio.

 

The people in the parking lot wouldn't stay in the hotel if it was less than half the price they ask for, maybe much less. They are never going to be a profitable sector for the resort.

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Antonio, you're probably right there about the dossers, as well as the well-heeled powder pigs. There are people at all income levels who no doubt enjoy abundant snow.

 

But as a case in point, my friends used to go to Arai quite often from Suwa. It was worth the extra drive beyond Hakuba or Nozawa because of the snow and the space. They always stayed overnight because they could get cheap accomodation through a company discount scheme tapped into by one of their wives. When that scheme was stopped, they simply stopped going to Arai. I haven't been to Arai because 'the bus' doesn't go there anymore.

 

I believe that airliners can only keep flying if they pretty much get bums in seats in all classes of accommodation...

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Interesting analogy Oceans11. There aren't too many business class only planes flying are there? As for economy class only - that seems to be a growth sector! Problem is that the nomads don't even qualify as economy class - these are the guys who would take an accompanied parcel delivery job or hop on a container ship to get OS - not buy an economy ticket.

 

Its the same with hotels. Money spent on a room is money wasted that could have contributed to a lift ticket - regardless of how small the amount.

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Take a look at Arai's trail map its all high level. I love the place but its out of the way and the highway to get there is so expensive more than the normal one.

 

On top of that I dont want to pay the money they charge for a hotel room around 15000man per person and thats cheap.

Food is around 1000 yen for lunch and we couldnt get into half the places on a non busy day. Now they are closing some.

The walk from the parking lot is a good 500 plus meters in your gear.

The snow although deep gets used fast, faster than any other resort in Japan. Go to hakuba and you can ski powder for days.

If you bring a weak friend along they cant ski half the stuff.

Parking is free, good, but not when you should have a camping area for those people camping for a week.

 

When I am talking about a 2000 a night room its not set in stone. I hope resorts read this and look for new ideas. Arai can not continue to shut things down and stay in bussiness it doesnt work that way, we all know this. The core seasons pass holders are freaks, who get up early and stand in lines just for first tracks. Most of those types of people just arent super rich. Im not saying they are poor, but they would rather spend money on sking/riding than high priced hotels. This place is not Whistler by a long shot about 5% the size.

 

Im not saying that you didnt enjoy it Christine you seem to like the place, good I do to, but its too expensive for someone like me who skis everyweek. Something is wrong when you close part of a new hotel please admit that. The child services sound good.

 

Arai needs a new lift one that can acess some good mid level trails. So more families and your bread and butter intermidates be they skiers or riders can enjoy the place more.

 

Ocean said some time ago Arai's web site sounds scary to regular people.

 

If you want to ride their pipe you have to pay and on top of that you have to hike. Most places these days at least let you take a lift if you want it. I know most will hike.

 

Any bussiness has to change and this one needs to make wholesale changes.

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