Jump to content

Recommended Posts

45 bricks a day he must be taking the piss.

An experienced bricky can do that in two or three hours

They are certainly trying to take you for a ride by stinging you for the labour.

No wonder your pissed with them.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 257
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Actually.....recently I gave up trying to keep the growth in check. So..I raked everything level and flat and layed down some black underlay and topped it all with a couple a yards of "jari" gravel..

I was hoping they would have realised I'm not going to accept silly prices, but obviously not.

All that work he has done, looking like it will have been wasted by his pricing colleague being stupid on prices.

:(

 

I suppose the good thing is that I've now got a fairly detailed outline of a plan/idea that I like now though, along with the materials etc that I want used.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As snowdude says, 45 bricks a day is taking the piss. A complete amateur building a barbecue or a pizza oven with instructions out of "Doo-Paa" (the best-known Japanese DIY magazine) could do that. You should not be paying amateurs, complete or otherwise.

 

Just to be clear, it is likely that my lawn died because it had no bed for the roots to grow in. It just had me working at home and hence around most of the time to pamper it more than most people would be able to. In the week my lawn died, none of my other plants died, I guess because none of them were planted in 2cm of soil or sand on top of compacted gravel. As evidence of how lawns are put in in the UK, the only example I need is the humble Swingball. Everyone will have seen a Swingball with a six inch spike pushed into the lawn by kids by hand. Multiple times too, as the first hole invariably gets looser and looser because the soil under most lawns is nice and soft. With our lawn, I couldn't get the spike in even just 3cm hitting it with a mallet. The guy that put the lawn had a digger on site, so it wouldn't have taken a lot of effort to do some digging and prep the lawn properly. Why he didn't is anyone's guess.

 

When it was alive, our lawn was great, so I'm definitely up for trying again, but I'm going to make sure the next lawn goes on a proper bed. For growing from seed, the temperature window (i.e, not too cold or too hot) you have for germination might be quite narrow in Japan, but our first try was evidence enough that it will work at the right time of year. If we can't get the prep done fast enough to make seeding a goer, around here we can get Western turf laid for 2500 a square meter. We need over 100 sq meters, so I might give the seeds a go first.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice garden pic Mr Wiggles.

 

Is that a Takasho marble top (iron/steel?) table I can see there on the left?

 

Thanks!

 

The little table in the foreground is just from Cainz Home. It's a set with two chairs in ironwork and a tile mosaic type top for the table. It's nothing posh, but it's real metal and the table is quite heavy. I think it was something like 13,000 for the table and two chairs. Here's something very similar on Rakuten. The colours in the mosaic are more "hade" than ours, which has more dark green.

 

http://item.rakuten....urashi/1400221/

 

The octagon table at the rear is a posh one, made of a weather resistant timber called ipe or ironwood. That wood is used a lot in decking and is naturally quite a dark brown that grays but will come back if you oil it. If you're looking for garden furniture now, the table I reckon is best value is an extending one by Ikea and is called Appleblad or something like that. It's made of birch, which is quite strong and way better than the lightweight softwood stuff in Japanese home centers for about the same price. If you have space to put them away, the non-folding Applebad chairs also seemed very good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tomorrow he comes here and will be up for a frosty reception. If he's not up for lots of flexibility, he might as well go home quickly.

 

In other news, I got samples of the artificial grass today from 3 companies.

 

Some of them are horrible horrible. Not as bad as that roll in the thread here but still very bad indeed.

 

But a few of them are pretty good first impressions. Looks like real grass.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I would guess that with the distinct lack of very nice lawns here in Japan, it's not an easy or cheap job keeping them looking lovely.

 

As pie eaters dad pointed out, most people don't even have gardens, never mind lawns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He has been.

Actually I am much more positive now, it seems I had misunderstood a few aspects of things.

And he came with a revised total price down and also offered to throw in some trees and conifers at the new price after some negotiating and make some adjustments which are actually additional costs for him.

While the brick part of the quote is still very expensive, I think I need to just think of the total cost rather than zoom in on that as he wasn't for budging on that one part much.

Need to also think about how much time and work would be involved if I did try and do it all myself and if it's worth it.

He is very detailed and I think his company would do a very good job if we went with them.

What to do, what to do. I have to collect my thoughts and think it through.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just outside Kusatsu in Gunma the fields therecare black its really good soil but that is rare in Japan.

I load my fields up with manure and add aburakusu to make the soil better also I add leaves too.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to hear about the progress! There's nothing worse than putting energy into something and sitting through meetings for it all to come to nothing. I'd be interested in hearing more about what you're getting if you're happy to talk about it. As it happens, I saw my first fuki-no-tou today. It's is the first sign of spring round here, so I guess it's time to try and start remembering all the garden things I always forget over the winter.

 

I guess the soil changes by region but the most common gardening soil sold in home centers and used in mixes in gardening books is a light brown one called akadama. Its often more yellow than "aka".

 

soil_25_thumb.jpg

 

Our soil is very dark when it's wet. As the dude says, if you put organic matter into your soil like bark compost and leaf mould, it will go darker. Aside from the akadama, there is also kurotsuchi, which thinking aloud might work better in colder areas because it'll heat up faster in spring.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good question and one that I have only latched onto now.

 

This guy is saying that mostly yamasuna 山砂 mixed with bark compost and peat moss (?) is 'good enough'for flower beds. I kind of think the sound of 'sand' is... well, it doesn't sound go good does it. My Japanese friend who does gardening is telling me that kuro soil would be much better. I get the feeling it is 'good enough' to keep the costs down but if I'm going to the trouble of doing a garden, I want better than 'good enough'.

 

I just spoke with him and he was going on about how if I wanted to use different soil we could do that, but remember there'd be the cost of putting the soil into the garden beds. The cost in the mitsumori is the soil (sand?) and the labour costs. Points like this really rile me up with this guy.

 

Please tell me. What work is involved in putting soil into a newly built flowebed? If I have bought good soil online and it's in bags at the front of my house. Am I right in imagining that it's a case of putting some gloves on, cutting open the bag, and pouring the soil into the flowerbed? Or am I missing some highly technical aspect of the process that involves considerably labour costs and needs to be factored into the cost of an otherwise large project?

 

And to think I was feeling better yesterday. For a project this expensive (well for me it is) I would bloody well hope that instead of making a point of things that cost next to nothing he'd be a bit more flexible instead of being quick to mention. The nicky picky nature of his thinking really annoys me. Though I suppose it might translate to him being really fussy about the work as well which is good I suppose.

 

I'm sure if I added something that cost 100 yen to what I wanted he'd want to add something to the cost. :grandpa:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of guessing here, but while the guy might call it sand, I don't think there is a lot of sand on Japanese mountains. Most of them are covered in trees. It's only one example, but our place backs onto a wooded slope and the soil there is a very fine black soil. It drains really quickly, so in that sense its not unlike sand. Adding peat moss gives you water retention, as does bark compost, though that's mainly a slow-release source of nutrition. The ideal soil for whatever it is you're doing with depend on what you're planting and the climate/microclimate of the bed. How much sun, how much rain etc.

 

If they're digging up soil on a yama (probably best thought of as the woods, not a mountain), it'll probably arrive on a dump truck. I dunno if that's easier than handling bags or not. The soil itself should be way cheaper than anything in bags.

 

If you're buying bags of soil or the like, JA the farmers' coop will deliver for next to nothing if you need delivery. Around here, their prices are slightly higher than home centers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm sure it's better than what I think when I hear 'sand'. But this is my problem - I don't know all this stuff in English, never mind Japanese.

I just want very good quality stuff that will grow flowers and shrubs well. Not just 'barely good enough'. Simpleton I know.

 

I found this

http://www.fujinokensetsu.co.jp/j_tuchi.htm

 

My friend seemed to be saying this was ok for under a lawn area, but flower beds would prefer an upgrade on that.

I'm leaving it for a few days, a bit fed up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Abetastic advice is - not got boggled in the details of the prices.

After all, one of the reason you want someone to do it all is less fannying about on your part right?

Think of how much time and effort and faffing about it would mean if you had to do all of this stuff yourself.

If you can generally accept the headline price for what you really like content wise, pushed them as far as they will move on the total, and get on with the dude, I'd jolly well go for it. And quickly forget those details that bug you, you could go nuts dwelling on them.

:thumbsup:

 

Oh also, I recommend paying after April in order to take advantage of the new super 8% tax rates! :thumbsup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Pie eater is basically right.

I wouldn't worry so much about the soil, because its very very easy to improve that later, especially if your man is planting out with annuals which will need redoing every year (the soil, or lack of it under a real lawn is different, of course ;) ). I wouldn't be so worried about individual plants either, unless there is something you specifically don't want or think is naff. If you're planting herbs, note that ones that throw out runners like mint, camomile and oregano can be invasive.

 

The things I would recommend you check are design aspects like whether any patio is going to be big enough for any furniture you have in mind, if there is a bbq spot if you like doing that, if there is going to be shade where you need it, whether the paths in the garden flow well, if there is space for a shed of a suitable size if you're getting one later, whether anything you want to screen out is screened out, etc. Also the colours and textures of any hard stuff like your bricks. By comparison, the colours and textures of any plants you have can be changed very easily. A garden that's well proportioned for what you want to do and all the landscaping is great but some of the plants don't take or aren't exactly what you imagined would still be a great success, I reckon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think with a full on garden plan where you try to get it all right and all done in one go will be difficult, no matter how skillful the person doing it is. And you will most probably think later on that something you thought was good you don't like so much and maybe something you were not sure about you actual like more than expected.

From my point of view I will do my own garden bit by bit. I will have a basic plan of what I/we want to do with our garden as a base and then kind of work from there until over the course of a year or two come up with what we want, but will most probably have it so we can change it around every few years or so to get a different look or image, we may get fed up of one look, I don't know.

 

Of course this is me and what I will do, but everyone is different and not all of us want to do it ourselves either.

 

But I think it will be difficult to get everything as you want it first time and it may be worth thinking that you may want to change something later on.

As for the soil, if you are planting trees, they are not that fussy about the kind of soil, and lack of good soil can be compensated for by feeding them nutrition, not a major problem or outlay.

As for flowers/herbs I recommend adding soil, organic matter (vegetable scraps), manure, etc to the area you wish to use for flowers, herbs etc in early spring as soon as the soil is warm enough to work with, (maybe your area is ok now, maybe not yet?) (Not that you are thinking to grow roses, but they grow best with a nice healthy dose of horse manure) mix and turn it in well. Then by the time you come to plant flowers or whatever you will have good soil, which will require very little work.

Same goes for a lawn really a well prepared thick soil base, with nutrition for the turf or grass seed is going to yield better results than a firmed down thin base soil.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The pottering around myself and doing it bit by bit is just not for me, snowdude.

I want it done, to be enjoyed from now, and then I'm happy doing a certain amount of maintain.

 

Will get back to the process this week.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you want to minimise the fannying around there, DumbStick, in which case the all in one go is probably best.

 

Funny, some people love fannying around in the garden. It's almost like a full time job for my dad for example, he insists he likes it but also seems to enjoy having a moan about it as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK met with garden guy again.

 

We didn't argue or bad feeling or anything, but I pushed on a few price points and realised that he wasn't able/willing to move more as I tried to cost cut.

He was literally out of the door at one point with a finality about it. I had to bring him back to try and get things back on course.

Even explained how he actually missed a few things off the initial estimate that he felt he could not put back on, and so it should have been more. On checking, he was right.

 

So in a way I feel better now knowing that he's not just inflating his charges for me and he is offering me the best he can.

 

I just have to decide if I want what he offers at the price.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

×
×
  • Create New...