SerreChe 2 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I see Otaru is reporting almost 3x as much depth as Niseko while a gentleman with his own thread on Niseko is saying they've been having almost 5m of snowfalls season-to-date. Obviously snow does pack down, is wind-affected, etc... but I am thinking that after almost 5m the sasa we still see on the pics should be gone. We also know some resorts after a certain threshold under-report. anyway, I was trying to locate the SJ resort rankings per official depth and could not find it anymore. Could somebody point me in the right direction? I am guessing numbers should look much better after today. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 2, 2014 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 2, 2014 You'll also see that our Niseko Now reports are clocking up a total of 4.3m observed since the beginning of the season. The running total is at the bottom of each report page. And you can certainly believe the person providing them, insofar as they are actual observations. But, that brings us onto the fact that generally in my experience, you can ask 5 honest people standing within 50m of each other - some of them wielding large scary measuring rulers - and they'll all give you a different number. Add to the mix some less than honest people, and it can get confusing. Muzukashii desu ne. Resorts give their own official numbers of course and as you said they sometimes under-report, they sometimes over-report, they sometimes forget to report and they sometimes just don't report. Some more than others, some less than others. But lets face it, surely once the season gets going and we have good cover the main thing is regular snowfall and whether there's much fresh or not. That's what I care about anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 SerreChe, I reckon I know what the reason is. The snow falls in Niseko and then those strong Niseko winds blow it all right back over to Otaru. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 2, 2014 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 2, 2014 Oops sorry I missed your other question. The snow depths are shown on the main resort listing pages in the Resorts section: http://www.snowjapan.com/japan-ski-resorts Nagano: http://www.snowjapan...efecture/nagano Niigata: http://www.snowjapan...fecture/niigata Hokkaido: http://www.snowjapan...ecture/hokkaido You can sort by snow depth, or any other of the bits of data. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 2, 2014 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 2, 2014 All Japan page has been a bit delayed by other more urgent things, and hopefully will be with us soon. In the meantime if you use the top right "search box" and search on the letter "a", you will probably bring up most resorts. It searches on resort names and towns and so likely includes almost all. Like this: http://www.snowjapan.com/search?words=a&sort=SnowDepth&sortdir=DESC Or could try other letters. Yes, not ideal just trying help in the absence of the page we are still making. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Thanks SJD, did not see the running total at the bottom of the page. I'll make sure to check it out going forward. I assume then that the japan-wide depth chart is not live at the moment, it was quite interesting to see how thing stacked-up across regions but I guess it is an enormous amount of effort to collect and maintain. Pie I reckon you just stumbled upon the secret reason for the bottomless conditions there! I understand things can vary widely from place to place. I just cleared 40cm of snow off my car this morning near Yuzawa while Kagura was reporting 15-20cm up top. Guess the winds blew it all up onto my hood! :-) Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Thanks SJD, our posts are criss-crossing each other. Had not see your answers when I posted. Cheers for that. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just 10cm outside my place today in Muikamachi, and I was over by Ishiuchi Maruyama, actually rather close to the Phone Box, just a bit earlier... and there was no more than here over there. Where abouts in Yuzawa was there 40cm? You could go round and round in circles on this forever quite easily. Best not to waste time doing that, I reckon! Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I see Otaru is reporting almost 3x as much depth as Niseko while a gentleman with his own thread on Niseko is saying they've been having almost 5m of snowfalls season-to-date. Obviously snow does pack down, is wind-affected, etc... but I am thinking that after almost 5m the sasa we still see on the pics should be gone. I think the moisture content of the new snowfall (density) is the key to this question. Otaru will typically have snowfall with a higher moisture content than that of the Niseko Resort Area. If 10cm of snow falls in Otaru and 10cm of snow falls in my neighbourhood of Higashiyama, once compacted by humans, machines or additional snowfall the snowpack will be higher in Otaru. Plus there have been significant rain events in Niseko that compacted or depleted the snowpack to almost nothing. Otaru may have missed these rain events. The sasa in this area can grow to almost 2m in height. Typically wet, heavy snow at the start of the season will collect on the sasa leaves and bend the shaft until it's horizontal with the snowpack. The next snowfall typically buries it and then bye bye sasa. With the rain events, the sasa has bounced back and now the shaft is buried up to half way. With the reduced flexibility in the shaft it's going to take a lot more snow to bury the sasa fully. Hope that makes sense. And anyone that doubts how much snow falls in this area please feel free to join me shovelling and snow blowing before I head to the slopes and/or when I get home Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 2, 2014 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 2, 2014 I wanted to elaborate with that kind of reply, but knew you would help out MikePow. And do it so much better than I could. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Where abouts in Yuzawa was there 40cm? You could go round and round in circles on this forever quite easily. Best not to waste time doing that, I reckon! Wouldn't want you to go round in circles forever Muika. Back of Stella. Did not measure exactly but 40cm looks about right. My hood is 'bottomless'. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 1cm looks about right for the car next to yours hey? Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 I see Otaru is reporting almost 3x as much depth as Niseko while a gentleman with his own thread on Niseko is saying they've been having almost 5m of snowfalls season-to-date. Obviously snow does pack down, is wind-affected, etc... but I am thinking that after almost 5m the sasa we still see on the pics should be gone. I think the moisture content of the new snowfall (density) is the key to this question. Otaru will typically have snowfall with a higher moisture content than that of the Niseko Resort Area. If 10cm of snow falls in Otaru and 10cm of snow falls in my neighbourhood of Higashiyama, once compacted by humans, machines or additional snowfall the snowpack will be higher in Otaru. Plus there have been significant rain events in Niseko that compacted or depleted the snowpack to almost nothing. Otaru may have missed these rain events. The sasa in this area can grow to almost 2m in height. Typically wet, heavy snow at the start of the season will collect on the sasa leaves and bend the shaft until it's horizontal with the snowpack. The next snowfall typically buries it and then bye bye sasa. With the rain events, the sasa has bounced back and now the shaft is buried up to half way. With the reduced flexibility in the shaft it's going to take a lot more snow to bury the sasa fully. Hope that makes sense. And anyone that doubts how much snow falls in this area please feel free to join me shovelling and snow blowing before I head to the slopes and/or when I get home Thanks for that. Not keen on the shovelling, been doing enough of that myself. The rain events make sense to me. Bad luck really as Hokkaido is supposed to have lower temps. The moisture content bit I am not so sure tbh. Niseko is very close to the ocean. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 1cm looks about right for the car next to yours hey? I knew you'd say that Muika. Disclaimer: I do not know at what time the cars next to me parked nor when they decided to wipe the snow off their hood. I actually put my car with one of last season's snow fall in a deep freeze and took it out just for this picture. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 4, 2014 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 4, 2014 Sorry folks, I'm going to have to come in here and say that if you want to find other websites that do reports... or whatever, use google or something. Thanks. (For those wondering, I'm referring to somethings that are not still here). Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I actually put my car with one of last season's snow fall in a deep freeze and took it out just for this picture. Surely that is cheating! Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The rain events make sense to me. Bad luck really as Hokkaido is supposed to have lower temps. The moisture content bit I am not so sure tbh. Niseko is very close to the ocean. Otaru is at sea level, village level in the Niseko Resort Area is approximately 300m. The top lifts go to 1100m That differential in altitude makes a huge difference in snow quantity, quality and density. Ask Whistler? Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm always really surprised about the differences in reporting. A casual observation about the places I go seems that resorts (more) interested in attracting international visitors over report (or exaggerate) while resorts that seem (more) interested in attracting domestic visitor under report. Part of the motivation may be to reassure drivers that road conditions aren't that bad... As well, I know this may seem crazy, but some people just aren't that concerned with fresh pow. Link to post Share on other sites
Hokkaidough 4 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 One of the problems of course is that it's often meaningless comparing as each place does it in their own way. Pinch of salt needed really. Mad that people don't want fresh though! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The JMA stats for places in Hokkaido are about as reliable as you can get as they use properly calibrated meteorological instruments. They've recorded 4.69m of snowfall in Kutchan (@176m above sea level) so far this season with a current snowdepth of 1.5m. Otaru has recorded 2.98m (@25m above sea level) with a current snowdepth of 73cm. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 That may be true but how about the 100s of other resorts that don't have a weather station right at their door steps? In Niigata there are only a few weather stations for over 50 resorts spread out all across the prefecture. It's a super super inaccurate way to measure snowfall in places like that. In those cases it seems that the only semi accurate information is coming from the resorts themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Really, very few people care. Link to post Share on other sites
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