26-03-16 Independence Day?

[Alexander L 80]

[Alexander L 80]

bit of atinker for the Isle of Wight

[Alexander L 80]

Whats white and steams out of Cowes?

 

 

Isle of Wight ferry

 

[muikabochi 208]

Change to driving on the right - good idea!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/01/scotland-driving-on-right-independence-road-scheme

[Tubby Beaver 209]

What's the date again?!

[muikabochi 208]

I know, at first I didn't realise!

[pie-eater 207]

The Scottish government and the UK Treasury have set out rival visions of the costs and benefits of Scottish independence.

 

Launching a report at St Andrews House in Edinburgh, the first minister, Alex Salmond, said an independent Scotland could generate more than £5bn a year of extra revenues within 15 years, equating to £1,000 per person, without having to raises taxes.

 

The report details how a yes vote in September's referendum could help boost the Scottish economy by increasing productivity, boosting the working age population and increasing employment.

 

Meanwhile, the chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, projected that over the next 20 years Scots would benefit from a "UK dividend" of £1,400 per person per year from 2016-17 onwards.

 

It's all jolly confusing.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

The treasury's report outlying a 2.4 billion pound cost to an Indrpendent Scotland had been exposed as BS by the sources they quoted and based their "evaluation" on....clutching at straws

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

You know what else is jolly confusing is the thread title. I keep reading it as Heisei 26, March 16.

(I will go out on a limb and guess that is not right.)

[pie-eater 207]

Tubby an ippy, tell your family and friends back home!

 

Pope enters Scottish independence debate with warning against division

Pope Francis says every independence movement is different, but separation of countries must be 'handled with tweezers'

[Tubby Beaver 209]

The Pope getting involved.....in Scotland?! That'll go down well on the west coast.

 

Sounds to me he's more on the NO side.....which will go down just dandy with those west coast folk who Follow Follow the Rangers and are staunch Unionists

[grungy-gonads 54]

He's another of Mr Salmon's agents!

[ippy 66]

Hello September. Hello knife edge.

 

[pie-eater 207]

It's all jolly exciting.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

It jolly well is

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Has 'Yes' (to indepenence) ever been ahead in the polls?

 

Seems like whoever wins, about half of the people (who said in polls) will not be happy.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

No, the polls have alwYs shown a huge lead for NO, but as the vote gets closer the gap has closed considerably

[pie-eater 207]

But whatever happens near half of the folk will be pissed off about it?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

well it depends on actual numbers, I've never actually given too much weight to opinion polls before elections. BUT that is democracy in motion……the majority generally rule

[Wizz 11]

I see first time Yes is ahead in a poll.

 

The No guys need to get Lizzie to make an appeal on live tv! Or go on a tour outside the gates of Balmoral!

 

[NoFakie 45]

The government have just offered more incentives for people to vote No, even though its illegal under the law relating to the referendum to do it this late.

 

The north of England will lose a valuable ally in counteracting London and the South East if Scotland goes independent, but good luck to them.

 

I reckon there are plenty of scare tactics to come though, and enough timid types fearing disaster will vote No to stop it.

[ippy 66]

Ten days. Ten days. The no campaign suddenly realise that they cant just expect conservatism and the fear of the unknown to carry them through. People keep talking about Quebec as the reference point, but its that first election of Obama they should be checking. The idea to be a part of genuine history and change is an overwhelming ego-trip. Compare that vision with the chance to keep things as they are. Did we learn nothing from Braveheart? Now that its plausible and it could actually happen, youll find people come off the sidelines and think "**** it, lets do this".

 

It'll be close. But no will still win.

 

I think the devo-max option FINALLY being presented by the No campaign will tilt things to the sensible. Scotland can go it alone. I believe avowedly it can. But why would we honestly want to? Even in terms of identity alone, Im British, then Scottish, then European. I like being British. I feel just as much affinity with North of England as I do with Scotland. Maybes if we could bring along everything to the North and West of the Midlands (sorry midlands, but youre just a suburb of London in my eyes), then id feel happier But we cant. And that feels like a betrayal in a way. Devo max, so long as they present something palatable (an insulting offer from Osborne will, i feel, force many waverers into the arms of Salmond), will give the option i think most Scottish people wanted in the first place.

 

What this also means though is that federalism is now on the cards. Maybe not yet, but in the near future. And i think this vote is going to bring this about. Scotland will vote No i reckon, maybe by a decent margin, but only because theres (finally!) something better on the horizon.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Why would the citizens of the rUK allow for Scotland to get, what they see as, even more powers if we've voted no? I think the horse has bolted for the NO campaign and they are now clutching at straws!! Devo-max was wanted on the ballot paper by the SNP/Yes campaign from the start but the UK govt said no to it and said it had to be a straight up IN or OUT vote.

 

Its gonna be a close call....but I think when it comes down to it, people are gonna say "F@@k it! Let's give this a shot" and vote YES.

 

The queen has apparently summoned David Cameron and demand that he not make her the last queen of Scotland (a recent poll of YES voters should a large majority wouldn't want her as head of state). Although that's not actually in this vote, the writing is on the wall for her if we vote YES

 

Don't forget that Scotland has been offered Devo-max before in return for a NO vote and we got nothing.......empty promises then, empty promises now

[BagOfCrisps 24]

I can't say I'm bothered about this one way or the other, or actually know the issues in any detail, but don't like it the value of my stuff goes down.

 

 

 

Scottish independence: pound slumps to lowest level for 10 months

 

Sterling suffers sell-off on Asian markets amid fears that ‘yes’ vote could send the currency plunging by up to 10%

 

[ippy 66]

I just think that labour voters turning to independence are responsible for this swing. And that those same labour supporters have no long standing interest in independence. They want devolved power, greater representation, and more collective powers (and the ability to actually affect change), but they also want that change to take place throughout the whole of Britain and with the support of the other (Keynsian) labour heartlands.

 

They want an end to zero-hour contracts, they want a livable minimum wage, they want employee rights, they want free health care and education. They want opportunity and the promise of the Consensus. Basically they want social justice and fair pay and conditions. And they think, probably rightly, that their interest lies in changing the programme of the Parliamentary Labour Party in Westminster rather than the more narrow focus on the Scottish Labour Party. This vote allows them to scare the bejesus out of the PLP and allow them another chance to turn away from austerity and deliver something that their heartlands want: social justice, opportunity and a strong welfare state. As i said in the OP, its nostalgia for Keynesian policy that drives this more than romance about freedom or self-determination. And this is why i think that on the day, theyll switch back.

 

At the end of it, this should have been the message of better together. Instead they spent their time offering only the PLP vision of 2016 and beyond. And i can tell you hand on my heart, that Ed Balls statements about welfare and austerity arent playing to me or to your average Glasgow labour supporter. Theyre playing to the swing voter in the south east, and thats why Labour are getting a bloody nose right now. Theyve taken for granted their supporters and have betrayed the possibility of real or significant choice in any general election.

 

This is as much a referendum on the PLP as it is on Scotland. And i feel its been a genuine eye-opener for them. If it turns out that labour are taking this on board and can bring about a genuine offer for Scotland in these final days, youll see enough labour supporters come back. If they offer nothing but an empty promise, you'll see them desert the ship in droves. I have a feeling though that theyll offer something akin to what most people said they wanted and it will be substantial enough to keep the conversation going. Then again, im still stuck in a 1980s time warp with my grandad spitting fury at the 6 oclock news every time Thatcher appeared on the telly, so i may have mythologised this a little.