Naughty or not?

[window-cleaner 0]

1) Walking 50m or so under the rope at the top if Happo-one to get some shots of the montain?

2) Walking past the rope up to the top by the ice monsters at Zao?

 

I ask because in both cases, lots of people seem to do it, though at times they call people back.

What's the official position?

[seemore 66]

Just guessing but I think the rope is there for a reason.

Ask the serious looking people I am sure they will let you know

[onehunga 26]

A woman died in NZ a couple of days ago, went past a rope looking for her dropped snowboard. Respect the ropes.

[big-will 7]

Thing about those ropes at the top of Happo - whenever I have been, lots of people have gone past them, there have always been people there (on a clear day) taking snaps.

But I have never seen any resort staff stop people. They don't seem to... mind.

[best skier in hakuba 5]

Naughty but nice

[muikabochi 208]

I don't actually duck ropes to ski at all.

 

But, I have been past those two mentioned for the purposes of taking photos. Which is probably naughty.

 

Each time I have been, which is always in good clear weather, there have always been a fair few people walking over to those 'viewpoints'.

 

I'd like to know what the resorts thought about it.

[Go Native 70]

Like most resorts in Japan they probably just don't want to know about it. They don't want the responsibility of managing access. So they just turn a blind eye. It's not happening if they don't see it!

[muikabochi 208]

But if something happened, they would be taking a kind of 'responsibility' -- if only with bad publicity etc which Japanese resorts don't like. Right?

 

With people walking over in those two places, other people seem to just think it's ok. A little sign telling people not to go beyond the rope would probably put lots of people off doing it. Right now, there's no sign in those places at all.

[Go Native 70]

The sign would just be ignored as well if it wasn't enforced. I've been to a number of resorts that have signs up saying no access and the whole slope is nearly tracked out. Parts of Rusutsu and Kiroro come to mind. It's part of the whole problem that most Japanese resorts don't like to manage off-piste access. So they just have a blanket ban on off-piste riding but then realize they'd lose a hell of lot of business if they don't turn a blind eye to those riding off-piste. The biggest problem with it all is that the average punter doesn't really have any idea of whether they are getting themselves into a truly dangerous spot or not. It's why I like what they do at Niseko. Basically all the off-piste is skiable as long as it's not roped off. You know the bits that are roped off are done so for a good reason. And the gates allow controlled access to terrain that most Japanese resorts would just have a blanket ban on accessing (but they'd probably turn a blind eye to those accessing it).

[muikabochi 208]

I don't believe it would be totally ignored.

 

If there was a sign clearly saying Do Not Go... I probably wouldn't.

 

BTW, the two areas being discussed are not places people are skiing... they are just walking over to a point that gives better views.

[Go Native 70]

Well if it happens all the time and I assume it's been happening for years without incident then why on earth doesn't the resort just extend the roped area to allow access to the vantage points? I think it's a part of the whole issue that they don't want the responsibility, they don't want to control access. They prefer to just turn a blind eye and believe nothing happens until something bad actually happens. A bit like their attitude towards oversight of their nuclear facilities.

[John-San 2]

What I been told by Goryu resort Ski Patrol is that People see tracks leading off into restricted areas and humans being humans will follow. Goryu resort has had three deaths in two season. All these death were in restricted areas. I would not want to be the Patrol bloke going into those restrictedareas to retrieve the bodies just after a big slide has given way because some dumb foreigners was after some untracked snow in a restricted areas. These Bloke have live and work in these condition and known there stuff. There is penty of BC to access through experience guilded tours. Or you can do the patrol a favour by going out alone and not telling anyone so if you do stuff up , on one will know.

[muikabochi 208]

Well if it happens all the time and I assume it's been happening for years without incident then why on earth doesn't the resort just extend the roped area to allow access to the vantage points?

 

A good question ideed. It doesn't strike me as being dangerous.

 

Perhaps they think that if they extended it, then people would go further, and then it would be getting dangerous.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

The Zao peak sign cites avalanche risk, does it not?

 

Don't know of they really check for that, or just issue a blanket prohibition, though.

[muikabochi 208]

I can't recall seeing those, Metabo Oyaji....

[Go Native 70]

The problem as I see it is that few Japanese resorts want to do anything to actually manage any sort of access to the off-piste. Most just don't have enough skilled staff who could manage it. Even a resort like Rusutsu which has had a huge influx of skiers/boarders who ride little beyond the off-piste still do next to nothing about managing access to it. As far as I know (at least from last time I was there) they still have a blanket ban on any off-piste access but do nothing to enforce it. It was similar at Kiroro last time I was there. Officially a blanket ban on off-piste access but they turn a blind eye to pretty much anyone doing it. The problem I have with this is that if avalanche danger is high in a particular spot then no one accessing the area is any the wiser about it. There's no way to tell for the average punter if they are getting themselves into a dangerous situation or not because there's just no management of the access. And blanket bans with little to no enforecement isn't good management! Niseko was similar until they had that big avalanche in Haru no taki back in 1998 which took a life. It was from that event that they realized they couldn't just turn a blind to all the people riding off-piste, they actually had to start managing the access. Took a lot of hard work by a few individuals, like the legendary Akio Shinya, to get the Niseko rules up and running but there hasn't been another death on the mountain since so it was definitely worth it. And I think Niseko has benefited greatly from it. I don't think it's any accident Niseko become so popular. Access is the key.

For me this all comes back to pretty bad management overall of ski resorts in Japan . Many just don't seem to want to move on from how things were managed 20-30 years ago. The whole industry has changed worldwide with the advent of boarding and skis becoming wider and wider. People want to go off-piste and enjoy the powder. Sure the 60+ year olds don't mind just staying on-piste but that segment of the market is hardly the future of the sport is it? Parks and off-piste access. That's what the younger generations want. And that's what so few Japanese resorts offer. In my mind it's no wonder why the industry is in such decline.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

I can't recall seeing those, Metabo Oyaji....

 

Scrounged around and found this picture I took at the top of Zao:

 

 

Here's a zoom in on the sign:

 

 

As can be seen, observed largely in the breach.

 

I think there may have been more people on the other side of that sign than on the in-bounds side!

[muikabochi 208]

Interesting. Like I said, I can't recall ever seeing a sign there. It's quite a wide area at the top isn't it. Not very visible is it really.

[John-San 2]

First, No Japan Resort could or would hire unskilled Ski Patrol. It is a highly regulated industry. Insurance have a lot to do with the non enforcement on blanket bans. The Ski Patrols are told not to enter band areas as they will not be covered by workers compensation. Another reason why. The people who do not obey the warnings are foreigners. In Japan there is not a culture of litigation. Unlike the foreigners culture of litigation. The Resort know a blanket band on off piste would cover they from such litigation and so is not enforce, They also know that the ban will not pervent the foreingners entering off piste like Cortina. But try enter off piste at Goryu/47 where it is enforce the Ski Patrol are on to you in a flash. They still don,t enter the ban areas but will try like hell to grab you in the car park at the end of the day and band you from the resort for a period of time. If you have a rental board they will take that as well. Yes there is no management in the off piste areas and why should there be. Your not to be in that area. We have the same problem with our northern area where is a blanket ban of swimming in the waterway and beaches that are not Patrol.The only people I know that actual disobey this warnings and are attacted and killed are mostly are Self-centred Aussie of Foreingers. Not one Japanese tourist had ever been kill by a Croc. That because their is are a ordered society and adhere to regulations

[muikabochi 208]

The people who do not obey the warnings are foreigners

 

Well, no not quite.

The two times I have been to Zao up top, I would say most of the people walking up there - and probably on Metabo's photo - were Japanese.

[John-San 2]

What can I to that say to that, maybe they are bus load of Chinese tourist?

[muikabochi 208]

 

They were Japanese.

 

Which means that they were not Chinese.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

What can I to that say to that, maybe they are bus load of Chinese tourist?

Maybe that stereotypes are not always accurate?.....

[John-San 2]

OK I will try Korean Tourist ?

[muikabochi 208]

You just trolling, John-San?

 

As I said, they were Japanese.