The other big threat from CO2

[Go Native 70]

Whether or not you accept the science of global warming and whether CO2 plays a major role in our climate there's absolutely no denying the fact that CO2 has been rising extremely rapidly since the industrial revolution. And any reasonable person must accept that mankind is behind much of that rise. Putting aside any possible affects on climate for the moment there's another issue of rising CO2 that will possibly have even greater effects on life on this planet including us humans. It's acidification of our oceans. It's estimated that around 30-40% of the CO2 we've been pumping into the atmosphere has been absorbed into the oceans Until fairly recently this was kind of looked upon as a good thing as the oceans were believed to be assisting in reducing the amount of extra CO2 in the atmosphere thus reducing the impact of global warming. But it's estimated that since the industrial age began this extra CO2 has led to an increased the acidity of the oceans by 30% and we are already starting to see the effects on highly sensitive organisms like corals and small crustaceans. Basically any organism in the oceans that have calcium carbonate shells will find themselves struggling as the acidity increases. This includes those near the base of the food chain like krill. The threat of course is if the krill struggle then just about everything else in the ocean will end up struggling. The real problem is the rapid rate of increase in CO2 levels and in the acidity. This has happened before but the rise in CO2 has generally been much more gradual unless it was something catasrphic like a super volcano which would have led to mass extinctions. We appears to heading towards a similar scenario but one completely of our own making. Anyway just another reason why we should be doing all we can to move away from fossil fules for our energy production.

Of course this could all just be another massive conspiracy by all the world's marine scientists backed by the same faceless group of communist/greenies intent on bringing down capitalism. I'm sure that's what snowdude will contend but obviously I don't think so. .

[Jynxx 4]

You and snowdude banter yeah, what does shit me is the exsessive energy consumption on stuff we don`t need, or we can save. What really go me when I was in Arizona, is people use cloths driers on sunny dry desert weather days ...　their excuse ... cloths get sandy. WTF .　AS for Austraｌia, drying cloths on a line is unsightly, and drives the neighborhood realestate price down

[Go Native 70]

If we source our energy from renewable sources Jynxx we can have as much excessive energy consumption as we want. It's our continued reliance on carbon rich fossil fuels to produce our energy that's causing the problems.

[JA2340 16]

AS for Austraｌia, drying cloths on a line is unsightly, and drives the neighborhood realestate price down

You just cannot generalise at that depth, Jynxx. We do not have (and never have had) a clothES dryer - we wear clothes, not cloths. Our drying is all done on a line, out in the sun/wind if clear, under cover if raining like today! I know many people who are the same as us, no dryer.

We also have solar hot water, solar space heating and a grid connect SVP array.

[Jynxx 4]

Pardon me spell error. Dont really give atoss over the internert. Goodonya JA... Add to that. Yeah, I used to hear BS from people living in a permaculture community + Being so proud about keeping their property in order... meaning excessive lawn mowing. What a waste of fossil fuel and uncontrolled fumes .... BAH !

[snowdude 44]

GN and everyone else for that matter might like to read this, which I have written to explain a little about Co2!

 

 

Carbon Dioxide is actually an organic compound, which consists from one atom of Carbon and two atoms of Oxygen (O=C=O).

 

Carbon Dioxide (Co2) is a natural constituent of the atmosphere, which has a density of 747 mg per cubic meter of air.

Its concentration in the composition of air is roughly 0.032%.

Out of all the organic compounds found in the air, carbon dioxide is the most important one for the sustainability of the biosphere (all of life on earth).

 

Without Co2 the life of photosynthetic organisms and animals would be impossible. Remember Co2 is the basis for the synthesis of organic compounds that provide nutrients for plants and animals. It is sometimes referred to as plant food.

 

Through photosynthesis, organisms with chlorophyll take in atmospheric Co2 or in the case of water dissolve Co2 to form more complex molecules, such as carbohydrates, lipids, proteins and nucleic acids.

 

Just in case anyone is interested the main formula of photosynthesis is as can be seen below:

 

6CO2 + 6H2O + Light = C6H12O6 (Glucose) + 6O2

 

An organism with chlorophyll absorbs light, Co2 and water from its surrounding environment. The water molecule is broken and the Hydrogen molecule bonds with carbon dioxide molecules to form glucose. Oxygen from the water molecule is then released into the atmosphere, whereas the energy provided by photons is stored in the bonds of the glucose molecule.

 

All nutritional chains begin with producer organisms; meaning organisms that produce their own food. These organisms are called autotrophs. Plants are autotrophs because they produce their own food; the raw materials for photosynthesis are water, carbon dioxide(Co2) and light.

 

Scientists who have done experiments have found out that the density of carbon dioxide needed for the optimal development of all kinds of plants is 895 mg per cubic meter of air (about 500 ppmv). We are currently at about 400ppmv so way below the optimum!

 

Thing is some plants grow much better in atmospheres with very high densities of carbon dioxide; for example, the pteridophyte and certain species of conifers develop better in humid atmospheres with 5000 ppmv of carbon dioxide.

 

Carbon Dioxide is not an environmental polluting agent, as has been incorrectly told to the world by world leaders.It is not in anyway poisonous to life. Carbon dioxide cannot kill living cells by altering their structure or physiology in the same way, for example, as a snake venom will. It can only suffocate an organism when Oxygen is not present at a sufficient concentration to sustain life.

 

The scientists and/ or leaders of the world are either getting confused, know the difference but try to tell the general public that we are killing ourselves due to too much Co2 in the atmosphere, because Co2 is good for us, the more the better. Now what the leaders of the world probably don't understand is that Carbon Dioxide is essential for life, where as Carbon Monoxide is dangerous to life. This is where they are making a huge mistake if indeed it is a real mistake.

 

Do you know the only difference between carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide is one less oxygen atom in the molecule of carbon monoxide. This small difference, however renders carbon monoxide toxic, while carbon dioxide is safe and in fact absolutely required.

 

During past periods dating back many hundreds of thousands of years ago, trees, plants, vegetation in general as well as animals where bigger, in some cases much bigger because Co2 levels were much higher than today, and there where no humans around at that time to pollute the atmosphere with anything at all!.

Some of the vegetation that grew many many years ago would not live now and indeed have died off, due to the lack of Co2 in the atmosphere.

 

The scientists know this yet at the same time they are blaming humans for a sudden rise in Co2 levels, which they want to try and lower.

Why lower something that is good for us, why? It is proven that Co2 is good for life on earth and without it we would all perish.

 

Burning fossil fuels is not going to change the Co2 levels, mother nature has decided to do that, possible to try and sustain an ever increasing population breathing in ever more of the earths natural air.

 

Despite what GN has been saying Co2 levels currently are not as high as they have been in the past.

And if the levels increase even more then that would be even better for life on earth.

 

GN and a lot of the world leaders are confusing Carbon dioxide with Carbon monoxide.

 

Now if he said that we are pumping more carbon monoxide into the atmosphere then I would whole heartedly agree with him.

We are polluting the atmosphere unfortunately, and I am all for stopping that. Petrol and diesel engines are giving off carbon monoxide which is a killer, although nowadays far less than they used to, which is a good thing.

 

However putting all this green tax and blaming humans for a rise in Carbon dioxide through burning fossil fuels is just plain daft.

 

Rather we need higher Carbon Dioxide levels that would be really good. Burn more fossil fuels I say but just don't pollute the air!!!!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

what about the acidification of the oceans? I've saw docu's about that as well. Any thoughts on that Snowdude? (not a troll post BTW, just that you didn't say anything above) Is it happening/ Is it part of the "conspiracy"?

[Go Native 70]

Wow snowdude. Absolutely nothing you posted there had anything to do with climate change or acidification of our oceans. And if you seriously think that scientists, you know the people who have actually studied, researched and have knowledge and qualifications on this subject, unlike yourself, are just somehow mixing up CO2 with CO then you really have lost the plot. Scientists aren't claiming CO2 is toxic. It's a greenhouse gas. Do you even understand what that means? It doesn't mean it's toxic. And increasing CO2 is increasing the acidity of our oceans. Do you have any concept of the consequences of that? You're stupidity truly doesn't appear to have any bounds. It really is like creationists claiming the science of evolution doesn't stack up. You're no different.

[Jynxx 4]

Actually, plants take up CO2 during the day and O2 during night. (but thats leaves we are talking about. The roots actually take up O2 ) .....wow ... did you know that there is only one electron difference between Lead and Gold. I don`t think anyone would confuse CO and CO2 .... maybe you have been sucking too much on NO lol......

[mitchpee 10]

Whether or not you agree with the politically sensitive issue of "global warming" is irrelevant to what I am about to say:

 

It really kills me to see how disrespectful and oblivious people are to the environment. I can't tell you how many times I have returned to some of my favorite wilderness spots and seen litter on the ground. Here in Salt Lake City we have some of the worst air quality in the US due to the winter time inversions and people driving more than necessary. It's all too often that people have massive cars which are completely unnecessary. In fact a lot of the time, it is simply for the image or "safety" of their massive, consumption obsessed family. This is a hard fact of living in a valley with a stagnant air period and hundreds of thousands of people. It's socially irresponsible to drive a massive pickup when air circulation is reduced. I don't believe it should be legislated, but that doesn't mean I won't go up to the person and advise them that they should become more educated on what they are doing. They usually get offended, because even though we have the easiest access to information in the history of man, we choose to use it less than ever before. If they have kids, I have no problem telling them what they are doing is contributing to the demise of their health. It's pretty hard to convince them when their kid already has type 2 diabetes at nine years old. <end America rant>

 

In the US and a lot of other developed countries, we simply consume far too much. We live well beyond our means and feel entitled to nothing less. It's extremely hard to break this process because it requires self-discipline and education. Two things that humans often get complacent with. This pattern only continues to grow. As we have more people, we get more entitlement. The more entitlement we have, the more we consume. The more we consume, the less the future has. It's an obvious cycle, but one that few want to take responsibility for. Hopefully, we can start to break this pattern and set an example of hard work that can be admired by future generations.

[snowdude 44]

Whether or not you agree with the politically sensitive issue of "global warming" is irrelevant to what I am about to say:

 

It really kills me to see how disrespectful and oblivious people are to the environment. I can't tell you how many times I have returned to some of my favorite wilderness spots and seen litter on the ground. Here in Salt Lake City we have some of the worst air quality in the US due to the winter time inversions and people driving more than necessary. It's all too often that people have massive cars which are completely unnecessary. In fact a lot of the time, it is simply for the image or "safety" of their massive, consumption obsessed family. This is a hard fact of living in a valley with a stagnant air period and hundreds of thousands of people. It's socially irresponsible to drive a massive pickup when air circulation is reduced. I don't believe it should be legislated, but that doesn't mean I won't go up to the person and advise them that they should become more educated on what they are doing. They usually get offended, because even though we have the easiest access to information in the history of man, we choose to use it less than ever before. If they have kids, I have no problem telling them what they are doing is contributing to the demise of their health. It's pretty hard to convince them when their kid already has type 2 diabetes at nine years old. <end America rant>

 

In the US and a lot of other developed countries, we simply consume far too much. We live well beyond our means and feel entitled to nothing less. It's extremely hard to break this process because it requires self-discipline and education. Two things that humans often get complacent with. This pattern only continues to grow. As we have more people, we get more entitlement. The more entitlement we have, the more we consume. The more we consume, the less the future has. It's an obvious cycle, but one that few want to take responsibility for. Hopefully, we can start to break this pattern and set an example of hard work that can be admired by future generations.

 

Good post that.

I could not agree moere.

I do so wish people could look after our planet better , but unfortunately greed and convinience gets the better of people.

 

[snowdude 44]

Wow snowdude. Absolutely nothing you posted there had anything to do with climate change or acidification of our oceans. And if you seriously think that scientists, you know the people who have actually studied, researched and have knowledge and qualifications on this subject, unlike yourself, are just somehow mixing up CO2 with CO then you really have lost the plot. Scientists aren't claiming CO2 is toxic. It's a greenhouse gas. Do you even understand what that means? It doesn't mean it's toxic. And increasing CO2 is increasing the acidity of our oceans. Do you have any concept of the consequences of that? You're stupidity truly doesn't appear to have any bounds. It really is like creationists claiming the science of evolution doesn't stack up. You're no different.

 

I was not talking about climate change in that post!!!

I was simply talking briefly about Co2.

[JA2340 16]

so, snowdude, the whole post was a giant troll?

 

As a greenhouse gas, CO₂ (not Co2 - it is C= Carbon and two O=Oxygen atoms, so C O ₂ ) is a form of blanket, insulating the universe from the heat radiating from the Earth. This is the major problem with continued (and continual) emissions of CO2 ... it makes the blanket thicker and more effective. This causes the Earth's surface temperature to increase more than can be justifiably explained by "natural variation". It also causes the wildly variable extremes of weather (as distinct from climate).

 

Trying to make this a "lay person friendly" explanation, no point in getting into the deep physics and chemistry required to fully explain it. (GN is better at that )

[Jynxx 4]

Maybe we just write them carbonmonoxide and dioxide. ... Mitch, I really think WE as an ANIMAL species is a failure. I don`t know why people object to the idea that a monkey wearing clothes is still a monkey....

[Karnidge 2]

I don't object to monkeys wearing clothes.

Or liking buckets either.

[Chriselle 158]

I'm doing my part....

 

I drive a 6000 lb diesel pig that gets 7km/L. The sooner we are done with fossil fuels the better.

 

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Maybe we just write them carbonmonoxide and dioxide. ... Mitch, I really think WE as an ANIMAL species is a failure. I don`t know why people object to the idea that a monkey wearing clothes is still a monkey....

 

We aren't monkeys.....apes...yes

[Chriselle 158]

Maybe we just write them carbonmonoxide and dioxide. ... Mitch, I really think WE as an ANIMAL species is a failure. I don`t know why people object to the idea that a monkey wearing clothes is still a monkey....

 

We aren't monkeys.....apes...yes

 

I had a roommate that called hot chicks...monkeys.

[Go Native 70]

Wow snowdude. Absolutely nothing you posted there had anything to do with climate change or acidification of our oceans. And if you seriously think that scientists, you know the people who have actually studied, researched and have knowledge and qualifications on this subject, unlike yourself, are just somehow mixing up CO2 with CO then you really have lost the plot. Scientists aren't claiming CO2 is toxic. It's a greenhouse gas. Do you even understand what that means? It doesn't mean it's toxic. And increasing CO2 is increasing the acidity of our oceans. Do you have any concept of the consequences of that? You're stupidity truly doesn't appear to have any bounds. It really is like creationists claiming the science of evolution doesn't stack up. You're no different.

 

I was not talking about climate change in that post!!!

I was simply talking briefly about Co2.

 

Talking out of your arse is what you were doing. What the hell do you know about CO2? You never studied science snowdude. You definitely never studied any of the earth or atmospheric sciences. In fact you've never formally studied any of the sciences. You know fcuck all about CO2 and you prove it everytime you post your pseudo and anti science nonsense. You're a joke. No different to flat earthers or creationists or any other nutters who completely deny science.

[snowdude 44]

Wow snowdude. Absolutely nothing you posted there had anything to do with climate change or acidification of our oceans. And if you seriously think that scientists, you know the people who have actually studied, researched and have knowledge and qualifications on this subject, unlike yourself, are just somehow mixing up CO2 with CO then you really have lost the plot. Scientists aren't claiming CO2 is toxic. It's a greenhouse gas. Do you even understand what that means? It doesn't mean it's toxic. And increasing CO2 is increasing the acidity of our oceans. Do you have any concept of the consequences of that? You're stupidity truly doesn't appear to have any bounds. It really is like creationists claiming the science of evolution doesn't stack up. You're no different.

 

I was not talking about climate change in that post!!!

I was simply talking briefly about Co2.

 

Talking out of your arse is what you were doing. What the hell do you know about CO2? You never studied science snowdude. You definitely never studied any of the earth or atmospheric sciences. In fact you've never formally studied any of the sciences. You know fcuck all about CO2 and you prove it everytime you post your pseudo and anti science nonsense. You're a joke. No different to flat earthers or creationists or any other nutters who completely deny science.

 

 

Wow we are touchy aren't we!!!! What's the matter was the formula I wrote down to difficult for you to fathom out?

 

As you say I am talking out of my arse and have never studied any science, would say that what I wrote above about Co2 is bullshit then, complete rubbish and makes no sense and is incorrect?

 

YES?

NO?

 

And don't give me you can't be bothered to answer my silly questions crap, I want you to answer my question I just asked you ok? Just a one word answer that is all!

[Mantas 3]

I wouldn't worry too much about CO2 destroying the oceans GN. Plastic will do the job first.

I recently return from a jungle location in Indonesia. A place I visited 28 years ago in 1986. Back then it was pristine. Now the beaches are knee deep in plastic! You really have to see it to believe it!

 

[Mantas 3]

I wouldn't worry too much about CO2 destroying the oceans GN. Plastic will do the job first.

I recently return from a jungle location in Indonesia. A place I visited 28 years ago in 1986. Back then it was pristine. Now the beaches are knee deep in plastic! You really have to see it to believe it!

 

[Tubby Beaver 209]

its horrible when you see that. A month or two ago I went up to the nearest beach to Sapporo, Dream Beach Otaru, and I was disgusted at the amount of rubbish lying around on the sand. Its obviously been washed in from the ocean and the fact that it lies under snow during winter wouldn't help either, but I think Otaru city council could employ a team of Oyaji's or something to go and pick the crap up. Or even get a tractor with a rake trailer on the back the filters the sand back to the beach and keeps all the rubbish. They DO open the beach in summer (from yesterday I think) so you'd hope that they clean it as well. That being said people should take responsibility for their own garbage and take it home with them.

[Go Native 70]

I do worry about acidification though Mantas. It has the potential of completely wiping out species near the base of the food chain in the ocean as well as all of the world's coral reefs. I would think anyone with the ability to think would be worried about it. Of course that doesn't include snowdude.

[Jynxx 4]

I wouldn`t worry about plastic ... It doesn`t dissolve and it is a recoverable resorce. Look at it this way, a beach covered with plastic is a beach covered with gold You see garbage or a society how they deal with that..., kind of tells you what/who (people) you are dealing with.... not only tourists but the locals al well.