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But if you "don't play the game properly", aren't you the one doing wrong. If you were "playing the game properly" the situation would not arise.

 

Anyway, it is very difficult for me to imagine a patrol getting violent, unless really provoked by the same.

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I think that though Japanese people are usually very polite, they also tend to be a little inflexible when it comes to following rules and they also tend to like to carry out their duties with quite a bit of zeal. This usually results in high efficiency and productivity but it can also have its drawbacks.

Overall, I still admire them for it though.

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Very interesting. Hope you're ok Barok-I've heard about this second hand from a few people over the weekend and it sounds even wierder now having read the full story. You seem like a reasonable guy Barok-and putting things in a strictly legal perspective I'd say you potentially have the makings of a case against the patrollers in question, or the resort.You may not be 100% in the right, but going on the story they are 100% in the wrong. On the basis of your postings in this forum you sound like a rider with the competance and awareness to safely ride the terrain in question without endangering yourself (unduly), or other resort guests (at all)

Assault is a serious crime and it sounds like some people may have lost the plot. So much so in fact that they are now running scared. I base the last comment on an observation of the patrol behaviour at the same resort this Saturday after the incident.

I was riding the quad from 11:00 till 4:00 and saw at least 20 different individuals doing blatent runs either underneath or to the side of it. Most of the people I saw were pretty average in ability and wouldn't have a shit-show of outrunning the patrol. Yet, I saw no obvious or agressive policing of the resort all day-unlike Goryu where I saw one of the patrol stealth skulking in the trees to catch any off-pisters when I went up on the gondala. The only riders I saw getting a telling off were 2 Japanese guys who I witnessed fumbling and bumbling down underneath my feet. The next trip up I saw the patrol handing them back their passes after a telling off.

You done wrong boys...time to take a chill pill and rationalize your whole approach to the situation. There are witnesses to the assault(s), and it's also worth bearing in mind that not everyone is as chilled as Barok. Tackle the wrong person and he may remove your teeth for you. That'd suit your style wouldn't it CanadIan? The patrol as nightclub bouncers eh! An eye for an eye slope stylee! For my 2 cents the errant behaviour of the patrol and anyone who supports them is pretty much in lala land. Anyway Barok good luck, and don't let it rest- they'll be shitting themselves for good reasons.

For the patrol-stop acting like schoolboys and start being reasonable, there are ways around this negative situation. Nice turns this weekend BTW.

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I don't know what the law says, but barok you seem to have done nothing wrong in that most of what you said may have been "incorrect" but was at no time threatening or abusive. To meet this with violence is completely wrong.

 

Ski resorts rules are merely rules. Rules like a family has. They are not bylaws nor are they laws. They have no power to act like the police and when they do they overstep their responsibilites and duties. They are there to ensure safety on the mountain and whatever else it is they do. They are not there to become dangers.

 

I applaude you on not striking back, but putting up a struggle.

 

You know it is quite interesting the timing of this.

 

I was watching hte regular installment of the Salomon program on TV from 5:30 on Sunday. There was a Japanese BC skier and boarder on a US trip. They wrere joined by Mike Douglas and John Burke(?) on a trip to the BC. The narrative at the time was "Here in the BC there is no threat of patrol, no worry about lift pass pulling, no hassle."

 

Could it be that this type of program is attmepting to break the ice on the pussy footing Jap resorts?

 

On reading this post there really isn't much relevance whatsoever, I just wanted to post on this thread to voice my support for barok(great guy and great boarder) and voice my PO attitude at this kind thing.

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SOmetimes I feel foreigner try to cause trouble, try to confront, and so easy to feel 'sue', 'take action', etc. Why is there such agressive feeling like this?

 

Are you suddently the patrol be violence with you? It sounds not likely for me.

 

My English is not good enough to explain my feeling well I think, so sorry. But sometimes like this attitude is giving wide brush for image of all foreigners I think.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by IceEiji:
SOmetimes I feel foreigner try to cause trouble, try to confront, and so easy to feel 'sue', 'take action', etc. Why is there such agressive feeling like this?

Are you suddently the patrol be violence with you? It sounds not likely for me.

My English is not good enough to explain my feeling well I think, so sorry. But sometimes like this attitude is giving wide brush for image of all foreigners I think.
IceEiji, I applaud your courage on your post. I wish more Japanese people could offer their direct opinion. Keep it up.

Now to rip on you.

I think that too many Japanese take too many things at face value.

I think the exact thing you are pointing your finger at is a bad generalisation made by Japanese about foreigners. (It is more often true, but..[see below])

I think it is probably thoughts like this that create the problem barok ran into.

I think to think that it is unlikely that someone would just come out and be violent is ignoring all the stories we read in the Japanese papers these days. Children stabbing people, train commuters lashing out, people setting others on fire.

Just some food for thought.
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Your desire to "rip on me" says a lot ;\)

 

I think that you maybe try to 'take on' too many things from your ideal point of view and waste much energy and effort in that.

 

 Quote:
I think the exact thing you are pointing your finger at is a bad generalisation made by Japanese about foreigners. (It is more often true, but..[see below])
It is more often true? Oh, I see. But if very vocal incident like this one happening, then what else to think but that is the image?

 

 Quote:
I think it is probably thoughts like this that create the problem barok ran into.
But I think barok attitude in first place created problem initial.

 

I know bad thing happen for shooting or stabbing or something, but we are talking about quite different situation here do you think so?

 

Sorry, my English not good enough for real my thinking . Maybe we speak Japanese, I can say it better \:\)

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 Quote:
Originally posted by IceEiji:
[QB]SOmetimes I feel foreigner try to cause trouble, try to confront, and so easy to feel 'sue', 'take action', etc. Why is there such agressive feeling like this? [QB]
And do you think that maybe Japanese people are like this sometimes too? Ive had a few run ins with Japanese people that try to cause trouble, confront people etc but that doesnt mean that all Japanese people are this way, just the individuals that I happened to meet in the wrong place at the wrong time. Thats like saying "all Japanese men are すけべ" just because some are doesnt mean all are.

 Quote:
[QB] Are you suddently the patrol be violence with you? It sounds not likely for me.[QB]
If you met Barok you would know what a laid back guy he is, the thought of him even getting violent is a bit beyond me! As for Japanese guys muscling in, on power trips etc, well look at any office and youll see it, even better lace it with a bit of alcohol and a headstrong leader. Bam!

Sorry Eiji, but all the b/s in the Japanese media lately has got me a bit sensitive about this issue. Grouping foreigners together is saying that the whole world apart from Japan is ____. It just doesnt sit right with me - although I think that Yanks are "sue happy"
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It is not my thinking as such, I am just talking generally. I have many foreign friend and I think my personal thinking is 'wider' than normal.

 

But I curious that you say about the generalising but then at end say you think 'Yanks are sue happy'?? So I'm little confused with your selective policy confused.gif

 

;\)

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 Quote:
Originally posted by IceEiji:


I know bad thing happen for shooting or stabbing or something, but we are talking about quite different situation here do you think so?

The point I was trying to make is that there is too much spontaneous anger in some people in Japan.

Even at my work this is the case. If people perhaps did not swell their stress and confronted the issues they find frustrating then perhaps their would be fewer tightly wound time bombs ticking away waiting for their wicks to be lit. This is not necessarily a Japanese only problem, but it is one that I find quite prevalent here.
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Another point worth making is that even if someone is confrontational or uncooperative, violence shouldn't be the first answer, especially not from ski patrol. They have no right to use violence against customers, unless in self defense.

 

IceEiji, I've had Japanese people flip out on me when I've asked simple, legitimate questions when I've had simple, legitimate problems with rules that Japanese people have made. Instead of me getting angry with them for their stupidity, they get angry with me. You think that's impossible? I guarantee you it isn't.

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Don't taking it out on me!

 

I think its general point that Japanese are not as confrontation as many western people.

 

Just look at the litigation society where people sue Mac Donals hamburger for getting fat!!!!, or for anything so simple. It's difficult to believe!

 

Also just look at this forum.

 

It seems like so much wasting of energy, if that is ok for you, if you want always angry, always confrontational - that is fine. Maybe it is enjoyable for you. But for me, no. I don't need that stress and I try my energy to be positive, get along with people and minimise my stress. I thinking it like good strategy for me. Why don't you try it?

\:\)

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IceEiji, that's called a passive-aggressive strategy you have there mate.

 

You get on here suggesting that perhaps barok started the violence of which he was a victim, and denying the possibility that he was simply attacked by an out-of-control Japanese patroller. You also make a generalization saying that foreigners are more likely to be confrontational than Japanese. Then when you get a fairly measured response to your rather provoking behaviour you throw up you arms and say "Whoa, don't be so aggressive".

 

Sorry, but it's totally transparent.

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Ocean. Your "smart" pseudo-intellectual responses are becoming way far too predictable, I'm afraid. :p \:\)

 

I can almost guess the response to this one. Bet I'll be right!

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Firstly... if only there were more people like Barok in this world, calm and chilled-out, not with overflated egos or attitudes, then the world would certainly be a better place for everyone! I would like to ride with you one day Barok! You sound like a "fairdinkum", decent guy with not too many hang-ups.

 

IceEiji... what is your reasoning behind taking no action when something is not right and needs change? I think that you are making a good step by voicing your opinion on this colourful, diverse forum but the difference is that we can see that something was definitely wrong and that something needs to be done, this meaning some sort of action being taken, so that this problem doesnt not effect too many other people in the near future! Dont you think so? We can only learn from our mistakes and sometimes it seems like some Japanese are somehow "scared" of change and do not recognise blatant problems as quickly as they should... sometimes action needs to be taken swiftly. However, this does not mean that this action should be taken without thinking. It just means that you need to recognise the fact that "some" action does in fact need to be taken and do so as quickly as possible. Then the discussion and consulation can begin and a suitable conclusion can be drawn from the evidence and recent happenings at hand. I am not saying that things are perfect in the world outside of japan, far from it... just that people do need to confront problems occasionally and work out solutions, even if it can be stressful and bring a certain amount of worry to the parties concerned. Thats just my 2 cents.

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OCEAN, I guess you only pay for the lifts, Give it up. If all you want is a lift pass, buy a snowmobile, its better. A lift pass includes patrol grooming and all the other things. One of the reasons we like resorts, is that they offer a safe environment compared to climbing and sking somewhere. But come on, who are you kidding that a liftpass is just a "LIFTPASS".

 

Barok got to talk to you about Cat sking give me a ring.

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