The cost of owning a house

[DumbStick 13]

Not sure I follow you, Mr Wiggles.

Don't lots of houses have the lower level including places for cars?

 

[sanjo 2]

the lowest floor of my building is garages.

Common here

[muikabochi 208]

In these parts lots of houses have garages 'under' the house, even some pretty big ones in my neighbourhood.

Don't they in Hakuba?

 

For yukiguni, I think it's a decent idea.

[muikabochi 208]

Like this

 

[muikabochi 208]

I prefer that, and being able to access the garage from inside, rather than have a seperate garage building.

 

Having said that..... Is this in a snowy area, dumb stick?

[NoFakie 45]

In Hakuba not that many really. In the bessochi, I don't think you can build three stories for starters.

Before we built, we last lived in a house with a half underground garage. It would flood every spring and the room next to it had a big mold problem. That was half underground with its own problems, but despite having a garage that was dry ten months of the year, I don't think I ever put my car in it. It was easier just to leave it outside. Its not as if cars these days need to be inside to start in the morning and the drive was closer to the road than the garage, which meant less clearing anyway in winter. If you want a garage in snowzone, put it right next to the road that is cleared.

 

Dumbstick never mentioned building in a snowzone but if that is the case, its pretty big information. Building in the super snow zone extending east from Iiyama into Niigata brings loads and loads of issues.

 

As a matter of taste, I think ordinary houses built closer to the ground are more attractive than the one in muika's photo. Look at those patio doors eight feet off the ground!

[muikabochi 208]

I just went to the 7-11 and took a look round. I'd say that almost all of the newish houses in my neighbourhood had the garage thing going under them. Not underground, but taking up all or some of the ground floor.

 

It may not matter in Hakuba where you don't get much snow on the ground ( ) but here in Yukiguni, it makes a big difference. In a usual year that is.

 

Leaving cars outside here gives you a ton of work as well in winter. Having them in a garage is far preferable. And many of the houses have access to the garage from within the house too which is handy.

 

As for the windows being 8ft off the ground. Gives you a better view. If it was on the floor, the view would be a wall of snow in winter.

 

I think if I were building a house in this area, I would probably go with the garages incorporated into the building. And get an ido going with water sprinkling to melt the snow on blizzard days so that clearing away is not the massive issue it can be.

 

Ones without the garage floor and other snow country features like very steep roofs may well be more attractive, but if you choose to live in a place like this other issues are more important.

 

Of course, this may have nothing to do with DumbStick's position.

[muikabochi 208]

One more thing - the other summer when there were some mad floods here, people seemed to prefer their garages being flooded than their living rooms.

[sanjo 2]

If I lived where you do muika, I would absolutely want a proper garage for my car.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Wow!! Seems like a good deal DS. Where are you building?

[oo 1]

Wish I had tons of dough.

 

[NoFakie 45]

As I said I actually had a garage for two winters and never used it. It was half way up in the pension gai at Goryu, which is pretty snowy. Brushing 50cm or so off the top of the car parked a meter off the ploughed road was easier than shoveling seven or eight meters of drive just to get in and out of the garage.

 

I've seen far more sprinklers for snow clearing in Itoigawa than in Hakuba. There is just Rapies and the odd conbeni. Maybe its too cold to have water running on the surface. The roads near the Goryu crossing and the station are now heated, but that is with pipes under the tarmac. That bumps the installation cost right up.

 

From living on top of a garage, the worst thing I found was that you lose the connection with the outside. We stopped eating outdoors because it was too much effort carrying trays of food up and down stairs.

I doubt most folks in the city where houses are a couple of meters apart have an environment conducive to eating outside, but its a big thing to give up in inaka. Indoor-outdoor connection is a big part of modern house design.

[NoFakie 45]

Wish I had tons of dough.

 

 

Don't we all! If I did, I'd give it to the 82 Bank and then I'd own a house and I wouldn't be in debt.

As it is, roll on 2028!

[muikabochi 208]

Cool, you don't want a garage, I think it's very important especially if I were planning on spending a large amount of money on a home here.

 

Let's differing opinions!

[tokabochi 9]

Interesting that. Perhaps there are regional differences.

Must say almost all new places I can think of round here in Tokamachi area, even really big places with decent amounts of land, have 2 or sometimes space/garage area for 3 cars on the ground floor.

Some great big stonkers of houses as well.

If lots of the good people of yukiguni are choosing that, there must be a reason.

[NoFakie 45]

Fwiw, I like garages a lot. I just prefer them alongside houses as in the West. I'd only want to build on top of a garage on a tiny plot in the city.

 

There are certainly regional differences with traditional houses. Maybe that's continued a bit with modern ones.

 

There are lots of cold houses in Hakuba and houses that drop snow in the wrong place or have people on their roofs every time it snows, so I wouldn't assume locals always know best!

 

Compared to the ground, I would imagine an open space below the house would make your floor much colder. You'll also get more of a shake during an earthquake.

[muikabochi 208]

I went over to Yuzawa today and made a point of checking out houses.

Garages on ground floor is overwhelmingly the way new houses are made in this region.

It's most definitely the norm, and were not talking tiny plots of land and cramped conditions.

Most seemed to have thought out where the snow falls etc also.

Lots have water sprinkling out clearing the front area, presumably from wells.

I doubt they are all silly billies.

 

Very interesting actually taking a look round. Lots of houses I had not noticed before. Some of them are very big indeed.

 

Personally I think I would prefer the space for a 'garden', than have it taken up by garages.

[big-will 7]

How does the water thing work?

What is involved running costs?

[RobBright 35]

Isn't the water just melted snow from the area that has been recycled into the system?

[tokabochi 9]

No. Mostly people dig wells (ido?) and the natural warm water is pumped up from there. The cost after being installed being the electricity cost of the pump, so fairly low running costs. Installing it can set you back 100-200man though.

[RobBright 35]

No. Mostly people dig wells (ido?) and the natural warm water is pumped up from there. The cost after being installed being the electricity cost of the pump, so fairly low running costs. Installing it can set you back 100-200man though.

 

[DumbStick 13]

Sorry I didn't mention we are thinking of moving to Gunma in a snowy area.

 

I just like the garage below kind of house, for mainly reasons muika mentioned and I'd rather the other land we had be used for something other than the footprint of a garage.

 

Got the plan today from the guy. They could pretty much do what I asked, though no mention of price yet!! Meeting him tomorrow evening.

 

My biggest ?? is the LDK and adjoining room.

 

Right now it is kind of like this with the kitchen bit bottom right

 

 

Not quite sure how the "sepearating room" thing would be. But thinking that it may be better to have it as one giant open space rather than have sliding doors or whatever. Then we can plan the room how we like without being restricted by that seperator thing.

 

The only down I can think there is that it will be more to heat it up in winter.

 

Difficult to imagine the size without seeing something the same.

[NoFakie 45]

Every house in Niigata may be incredibly well thought out. I haven't seen any so I don't know. I do know that the majority of houses in Hakuba could have been built better. What conclusion, if any, needs to be drawn from this about the "good people" of Hakuba will depend on how misathropic you are. It's just a simple observation.

On the whole, I think you'd have to have very low standards to be impressed by the built environment of Japan and assume that locals must know best.

 

If someone can come up with a few photos of houses built on garages on flat land that have nice gardens, I'd be interested to see what approaches work. It's always nice to learn something.

 

Dumbstick

 

Sliding doors don't stop noise very well, just so you know. I had to built a house with them to find that out.

Our house is massive but I never feel its too big and lonely when the kids are at school and the baby is asleep. I think the "big will feel lonely" worry is overblown. You can get used to big!

Just so long as you have to spaces to do whatever specific things you want to do and to store whatever specific stuff is important to you.

If a house of that size in Gunma is hard to heat, then there is something wrong with your construction methods. You shouldn't have to break up the space. Scandis live in warm houses and its way colder and way darker there. Don't get sucked in by people making excuses.

 

For a basic primer in house design, have a look at "Pattern Language" by Christopher Alexander. It basically deconstructs successful spaces into the ideas or "patterns" behind them helping you learn from the past.

[DumbStick 13]

Yeah I'm tempted to go with the one big open space rather than have a line between them.

 

If someone can come up with a few photos of houses built on garages on flat land that have nice gardens, I'd be interested to see what approaches work.

 

I can't see what difference it makes.

 

Apart from the fact that if your garages are dealt with within your building, then you have all that space for your garden. Rather than needing garages built on it.

[muikabochi 208]

Every house in Niigata may be incredibly well thought out.

 

Oh come on now.

 

 

I do know that the majority of houses in Hakuba could have been built better. What conclusion, if any, needs to be drawn from this about the "good people" of Hakuba will depend on how misathropic you are. It's just a simple observation.

On the whole, I think you'd have to have very low standards to be impressed by the built environment of Japan and assume that locals must know best.

 

I don't know much about the 'build environment of Japan' at all. Obviously I know less about buildings than your good self.

I'm just telling you what I see in this area, that's all.

I can also see that lots of old houses are pretty awful and I sure wouldn't want to live in them.

 

But, lots of the newer places look very nice to me, albeit perhaps on a superficial level.

I have a number of friends and colleagues who live in modern houses, and I am pretty sure that they did a fair bit of research before they made them.

They're not all dimwits without a clue.

I just think you perhaps you may be somewhat cynical on the subject, somehow looking down on all these poor Japanese folk who haven't got a clue about the houses they make.

And got a thing against garages on the ground floor.