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Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)


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I think nobody questions Niseko's great track record with regards to safety. Accidents have happened and will happen again, same applies everywhere. On the other hand I do not think that most people in this thread are trying to ratchet up the fear factor about the place, it seemed to me more like people trying to get some information on how to be better prepared. I think this is a matter of perception obviously and everybody is different.

 

Regarding the 2 accidents that took place, we still do not know if it was due to trauma or suffocation. The snow that bridges those cracks tends to be slabby so it would be shocking to me that somebody would suffocate after falling into one but I guess nothing is impossible. As for trauma, I could understand, but people would have to hit pretty hard, and 2 on the same day? So at the end of the day I think we lack a lot of details. I think a lot of people would like to have more details, not to ratchet up the fear factor or because they have a morbid curiosity but to learn from what happened. I am gutted for those poor souls that lost their lives but I would like to respectfully learn from these incidents as well.

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In truth my gut reaction to this was "oh god, another thing to add to the list of ways the snow is trying to kill me!" I knew cracks existed of course. You just need to look at your own hill to see t

Well, the Finnish person apparently went through an open gate.   I think it would be useful if we knew some more details: were they alone, what was the cause of death (trauma, asphyxiation, exposure

Remember to keep the relative safety our sport in perspective. In Australia, only about 0.5% of snowsports participants need medical attention of any sort and as far as I know we have quite a high inj

I guess the whole point to all my ramblings on this subject is that I don't want people who have little to no knowledge of backcountry safety and no gear to be overly put off from using some of the gates at Niseko. Because clearly huge numbers of such people head out through the gates each and every season already with no problems whatsoever. I want them to take advantage of the unusually safe snowpack, get out there and have a go. By all means learn as much about doing it safely as you can but all I'm saying is even if you know bugger all I still think it's worth hitting up some of the gates. Very few, if any, other ski areas in the world where you can get to ski such terrain with such quality snow in such relative safety. Take advantage of it! I know it's not the safety first message that most like to push but it's my opinion.

 

Of course I'd like to include a disclaimer that if you do take my advice and die I take no responsibility for your death! :p

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GN has hit the nail on the head in that it cant be much better managed anywhere else in the world to start stepping it up at Niseko by going out the gates. The week I had up there changed my riding forever and I had no avie/safety gear at all. Its certainly prep'd me and undoubtably hundreds if not thousands of others for more adventures elsewhere in more difficult terrian fully geared up. If I was to do it again I'd have my beacon etc but only now that I own it all it would be a little silly not to have it on me and the rest of the gear to be in a position to help others. Of course the shovel has other uses like building kickers :)

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Mike as I think you know I do have considerable avi knowledge and I do have all the gear. My whole skiing background is backcountry and ski mountaineering. This whole skiing at resorts thing is not something I've done a lot of before Niseko. And I have actually been involved in a real avalanche rescue in Canada. I'm well aware of the risks. But when skiing out through the gates at Niseko no I generally do not carry any gear. I don't because generally I don't believe the risk is high enough to warrant it. I genuinely believe the risk of avalanche at Niseko, if you follow the rules, is extremely low. And the record of safety over more than a decade means that is a belief based on very sound evidence. Add in my knowledge and route selection down a slope then I consider it extremely safe. I know that I have never set off an avalanche in all the years I skied there and I only ski off-piste and out through the gates, I can't stand skiing on-piste. Plus I just like taking some risks. I like the thrill of being at the top of a slope not 100% sure if it may slide and knowing that if it goes I'm probably a goner. What can I say? I like that feeling. I have no issue with those that want to mitigate that risk. Certainly when heading out into the true backcountry in a group I will happily take all the gear. And if anyone I intend on skiing with at the resort would prefer I have the gear I'm happy to take it. The group of locals I mostly skied with though (you know them) were much the same as myself in that they didn't think it necessary to have all the gear all the time at the resort.

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Remember to keep the relative safety our sport in perspective. In Australia, only about 0.5% of snowsports participants need medical attention of any sort and as far as I know we have quite a high injury rate compared to other countries (hard snow, ice, crowded runs, inexperience, gung-ho attitude)

 

I can't speak from experience for crack rescue but have other mountain and crevasse rescue experience. In almost all rescues I have taken part, where it isn't safe to approach the casualty, a rope is involved. These are organised rescues, however similar principles apply on BC trips. Re: short rope - I don't always carry it - depends on the terrain and the intended trip. But, I have used rope for lowering an injured party down a slope; short roping someone when they're out of depth (more common than you might think); and navigation in really poor conditions. For its weight it's not a big deal to pack it but definitely up to individual preferences. And you're right - mostly it is used for others rather than yourself - just like your probe and shovel.

 

As was pointed out earlier, rescue depends on whether you can access the person safely, how deep they are, whether or not they are responsive/breathing and how many of you there are. You might be able to reach them or their skis/feet relatively easily or they may be several metres below you. Remember your first priority (after danger to yourself and others) is their airway - it overrides all their other injuries - i.e. you have to get them out as quickly as possible, clear their airway and if required commence CPR. This may require removing their helmet even if you suspect a neck injury. This is something worth practising on your friends i.e. supporting c-spine while taking of their helmet. Tricky but doable with one person; very straightforward with two.

 

Re: your question about rescuing an unconscious person: they are limp and heavy especially if lifting. Something well worth knowing is a harness from webbing. You can practice it on yourself and you should definitely practice putting it on someone else lying down. This little bit of webbing plus a locking biner could save someone's life and takes no room at all. Remember though that it's time critical and you have to make a call with DRABCs. Here's a couple of links I found quickly. There's lots of different ways to do it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQHlIASNTCQ. http://www.animatedk...rness/index.php

 

Hope this helps.

 

I was looking for more practical information on how to rope someone out of a hole so yes this is a great help. Thank you very much.

 

I would also have to practice setting up anchors and a pulley system to attach to the harness and haul the victim out. I think to be at all effective some training would be necessary. I imagine it would also be very difficult to get safely down to a victim to attach a harness.

 

For now, it seems the most effective rescue from a tree well (my most immediate concern) would be to start digging from downhill and clear the victim’s airway as fast as possible. I am presuming that this would be a faster way to clear their airway than trying to rope them out as you would have to get into the hole with them to attach the harness anyway. Getting into the hole with them could put yourself in danger, collapse the victims air pocket or simply be impossible if the hole is too small.

 

Verttii, thanks for suggesting using radios. They would be an excellent way to keep in contact and to know when to start searching. It is a shame that radios with a practical range seem to be illegal in Japan. I have found some of the legal low power radios online for less than 10,000 yen and that come as a pair. I don’t know whether they would be worth carrying though as they are so weak. Cell phones would probably be better but signal in the mountains is temperamental and it is often difficult to hear the phone ring when you are skiing.

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I think i heard someone broke a leg at Mount Yotei yesterday in an avalanche.

Here is what Avalanche report said this morning:

 

An avalanche accident has occured in Mt. Yotei’s Makkari (south) face yesterday. Details not available.

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I was at Chisinappuri this morning and a Japanese guide told me six people were caught in the slide and the slab ran 400m down the mountain. He also said one of the six broke both legs. There are some very unstable layers in the snowpack.

 

I have been in Niseko a week now and have been listening to the talk about the recent fatalities. I have heard the Finnish guy killed was with a group of nine skiers and he was the tail gunner. He fell into the 4m deep crack at Jacksons which is difficult to see until you are almost in it. The group returned after he did not follow them out of the long run out and he was found upside down in the crack and was no longer breathing. They went through gate 5 which was open.

 

There is less talk about the Japanese death other than he was a local skiing alone in the out of bounds area between Annuppuri and NV.

 

Of course this is all hearsay.i

 

Kind regards

Hado

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thanks Hado.....very interesting to hear. Were they guided out or just a big group? I guess just a big group who figured safety in numbers (which makes you think that even if you know what yo are doing...shit can still happen), else a 2nd guide would bring up the rear.

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Thanks for the additional information Hado (keeping the hearsay caveat in mind). I had never heard of suffocation incident in a glide crack before in Japan. Obviously it does not mean it's never happened before. I still can't wrap my head around to how unlucky it was to get 2 such incidents on the same day in the same location...

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Mike as I think you know I do have considerable avi knowledge and I do have all the gear. My whole skiing background is backcountry and ski mountaineering. This whole skiing at resorts thing is not something I've done a lot of before Niseko. And I have actually been involved in a real avalanche rescue in Canada. I'm well aware of the risks. But when skiing out through the gates at Niseko no I generally do not carry any gear. I don't because generally I don't believe the risk is high enough to warrant it. I genuinely believe the risk of avalanche at Niseko, if you follow the rules, is extremely low. And the record of safety over more than a decade means that is a belief based on very sound evidence. Add in my knowledge and route selection down a slope then I consider it extremely safe. I know that I have never set off an avalanche in all the years I skied there and I only ski off-piste and out through the gates, I can't stand skiing on-piste. Plus I just like taking some risks. I like the thrill of being at the top of a slope not 100% sure if it may slide and knowing that if it goes I'm probably a goner. What can I say? I like that feeling. I have no issue with those that want to mitigate that risk. Certainly when heading out into the true backcountry in a group I will happily take all the gear. And if anyone I intend on skiing with at the resort would prefer I have the gear I'm happy to take it. The group of locals I mostly skied with though (you know them) were much the same as myself in that they didn't think it necessary to have all the gear all the time at the resort.

 

GN....a personal question.. Has your level of risk taking changed much at all since your child was born? I know mine has gone way, way down but oddly enough now that my daughter is getting older (ten) it's coming back. Coincidentally though....It may be my form of mid-life crisis showing itself. I don't need the Porsche..but I am needing the rush.

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Chriselle,

I didn't ski/board before I had kids...started when my youngest was 6yrs old, so I have no Pre-kids level to judge by, but I have definitely become more of a risk taker as my children have got older and less reliant on me. I have also noticed that I ride and live totally differently when I am in a ski village with my U18 children, compared to with my over 18 children. (bigger risks on and off the hill with older ones).

 

However the risk taking/children's age correlation also needs to be tempered by the knowledge that my skills and knowledge have increased over that time period so it coud be more suggestive of a relationships between skills and risk taking...

(Ahhh...she loves her inferential statistics)

 

I've long believed GN would take less risks now that he is a besotted Dad, but the issue here is the perception of risk - GN does not perceive much of a risk in going out the gates in Niseko for him.

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Mike as I think you know I do have considerable avi knowledge and I do have all the gear. My whole skiing background is backcountry and ski mountaineering. This whole skiing at resorts thing is not something I've done a lot of before Niseko. And I have actually been involved in a real avalanche rescue in Canada. I'm well aware of the risks. But when skiing out through the gates at Niseko no I generally do not carry any gear. I don't because generally I don't believe the risk is high enough to warrant it. I genuinely believe the risk of avalanche at Niseko, if you follow the rules, is extremely low. And the record of safety over more than a decade means that is a belief based on very sound evidence. Add in my knowledge and route selection down a slope then I consider it extremely safe. I know that I have never set off an avalanche in all the years I skied there and I only ski off-piste and out through the gates, I can't stand skiing on-piste. Plus I just like taking some risks. I like the thrill of being at the top of a slope not 100% sure if it may slide and knowing that if it goes I'm probably a goner. What can I say? I like that feeling. I have no issue with those that want to mitigate that risk. Certainly when heading out into the true backcountry in a group I will happily take all the gear. And if anyone I intend on skiing with at the resort would prefer I have the gear I'm happy to take it. The group of locals I mostly skied with though (you know them) were much the same as myself in that they didn't think it necessary to have all the gear all the time at the resort.

 

GN....a personal question.. Has your level of risk taking changed much at all since your child was born? I know mine has gone way, way down but oddly enough now that my daughter is getting older (ten) it's coming back. Coincidentally though....It may be my form of mid-life crisis showing itself. I don't need the Porsche..but I am needing the rush.

Definitely

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At work we look at risk by assessing the liklihood of something happening on one axis and the consequence of the event if it does, nothing revolutionary there. In my case the risk of something happening decreases with age with improved equipment, knowledge and experience. Now that being said the consequence of an event should it happen is increasing though by being in more inherently dangerous situations which is only partially offset by safety gear such a beacon and helmet etc. When undertaking risk assessments they are always very subjective (the best ones are done as a group/team) and without having kids I cant comment of the impact of that but Im sure with age my apetite for overall risk is certainly declining but more so by reducing likelihood rather than consequence by increased knowledge, experience and equipment.

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Mike as I think you know I do have considerable avi knowledge and I do have all the gear. My whole skiing background is backcountry and ski mountaineering. This whole skiing at resorts thing is not something I've done a lot of before Niseko. And I have actually been involved in a real avalanche rescue in Canada. I'm well aware of the risks. But when skiing out through the gates at Niseko no I generally do not carry any gear. I don't because generally I don't believe the risk is high enough to warrant it. I genuinely believe the risk of avalanche at Niseko, if you follow the rules, is extremely low. And the record of safety over more than a decade means that is a belief based on very sound evidence. Add in my knowledge and route selection down a slope then I consider it extremely safe. I know that I have never set off an avalanche in all the years I skied there and I only ski off-piste and out through the gates, I can't stand skiing on-piste. Plus I just like taking some risks. I like the thrill of being at the top of a slope not 100% sure if it may slide and knowing that if it goes I'm probably a goner. What can I say? I like that feeling. I have no issue with those that want to mitigate that risk. Certainly when heading out into the true backcountry in a group I will happily take all the gear. And if anyone I intend on skiing with at the resort would prefer I have the gear I'm happy to take it. The group of locals I mostly skied with though (you know them) were much the same as myself in that they didn't think it necessary to have all the gear all the time at the resort.

 

GN....a personal question.. Has your level of risk taking changed much at all since your child was born? I know mine has gone way, way down but oddly enough now that my daughter is getting older (ten) it's coming back. Coincidentally though....It may be my form of mid-life crisis showing itself. I don't need the Porsche..but I am needing the rush.

 

I don't feel as though it's made any difference. When I'm at the top of a slope assessing the way down nothing has changed since having my daughter. At least nothing that I'm concously aware of. My risk taking overall has decreased as I've got older though mainly because through experience I know how much it can hurt when you stuff up and the hurting only gets more as you get older. And even though she is our first and only child I can assure your that we are not overly protective parents.

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