Short Ski Trip in February and Need Advice!

[jokemaker323 0]

I am going to be living in Tokyo for the month of February and would love to try to make it up to some of this legendary powder I've heard so much about. The main issue is the logistics for my situation and suggestions would be greatly appreciated on how to go about this trip. I will likely only have four nights (maybe flexible but not sure) to go skiing.

 

 

 

First for the practical questions. I will likely have no gear with me and want to know how huge of an issue it will be to rent everything.

 

-Can you even rent ski clothing along with the equipment or only skis/boots?

 

-Are you better off renting at the mountain or in Tokyo? Are the prices insane or somewhat reasonable?

 

-Is flying to Sapporo the best option and is getting to the hill easy from there without a car?

 

 

 

Now to the personal question about where to ski. Whenever I hear friends talk about Japan, it's always Niseko, and that is likely where I will end up. I do, however, have one reservation about it, and that is that I have heard it is filled with Aussies (I like Aussies!) and I would rather go somewhere a little more authentic Japanese and local feeling. With that said, I do want great skiing and powder and so if Niseko is still far and away the best option for what I am hoping for, I will be happy to go there but if there is somewhere else with comparable skiing and a bit more culture, I'd be open ears.

 

-Is Niseko by far the best place for good skiing and snow or are there alternative options with just as good skiing and a little less foreign tourists?

 

 

 

What do you think? It's been a dream of mine to ski in Japan and I'm really hoping it becomes a reality soon!

[seemore 66]

Jokemaker

 

I think wherever you go will be great depended on the weather check out some of the other threads there seems to be good deals had by combining train tickets and lift passes.

[ippy 66]

Yuzawa?

Nagano?

Hell, even Yamagata or Fukushima.

 

But id just go to Yuzawa pretty much every free day you get. No need for lengthy planning, just get a JR deal, head there on a weekday while its snowing, and have a ball.

[Thundercat 60]

I've never seen good ski clothing being rented... just stuff from about 20 years ago.

You'll probably want to rent at the mountain.

If you want to go to Hokkaido then flying to Sapporo is the best option. Most places in Hokkaido are relatively easy to get to without a car.

 

When are your 4 days off? If they are mid-week days you can basically book anywhere at the last minute. Just check the weather and then go. Unfortunately, that's probably not the case for Niseko (at least not for reasonably priced accommodation). As far as finding an 'authentic Japanese and local feeling', you won't get that in Niseko. The 'authentic Japanese feeling' you get there is at best an artificial one. The comment you hear over and over again from the ex-pats living in Japan is that they like going to Niseko because it feels like you can get away from Japan without actually leaving the country. Of course, they also probably like going because it's got "The most consistent powder in the known universe"(trademark pending). Go there for the snow if that's what you want.

 

On a final note, if you only have 4 days you may want to consider going to somewhere a little closer to Tokyo. With the amount of time it takes to get to most resorts in Hokkaido, you'll be able to get to almost anywhere in Honshu. The Shinkansen is damn fast.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

If you are going to be based in Tokyo, the shinkansen deals to Yuzawa are hard to beat for cost and convenience. You wouldn't rent anything in Tokyo (I don't even know that you can!), rent at the ski hill. 70-90 mins from leaving Tokyo and you are in snowy Yuzawa, another 20 mins from the station and you can be at the resort and clicking in soon after. Cost of a day trip is around 10-12000 yen....you can get a deal that includes rental. However rentals may not be that high a standard. If you have big feet, I'd recommend at least bringing your own boots along.

 

If you wanna go to Hokkaido, then sure you'll have a ball but its not the only place in Japan with top notch snow.

[onehunga 26]

Gala Yuzawa have prices on their website for rental of everything you need, click on their link from this page

 

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/resorts/resortdetail.php?resid=5

 

Based on the prices there for 4 days I would buy some of the gear you need here. Assuming you can find the right sizes. The ski shop area of Tokyo, (located between Ogawamachi and Jimbocho subway stations in the Kanda district) has at least one surplus store where some good bargins can be had on last seasons gear.

[jokemaker323 0]

Thanks a ton guys. Is the skiing that is closer to Tokyo good? Why does Niseko get so much more love (at least among the people I know)? Is it bigger/steeper or just more snow?

[JohnPaulIII 0]

Nagano has a direct bullet train from Tokyo. I don't know if you'll have a rail pass or not but its less than 2 hours from Tokyo to Nagano city and then about 1.5 hrs to Hakuba from there via one of the many busses from Nagano city. I think if you want a more Japanese experience going to Myoko Kogen in Niigata would be nice. It's much more "authentic" than Hakuba. I like Aussies too but when in Japan its nice to be in Japan. I've only heard amazing things about the Niseko experience though...

[@tokyo 14]

Thanks a ton guys. Is the skiing that is closer to Tokyo good? Why does Niseko get so much more love (at least among the people I know)? Is it bigger/steeper or just more snow?

 

For lots of people, that's all they know.

For other people, that's what they are selling.

 

Don't know about your friends of course.

 

Jump on a train at Tokyo to Echigo Yuzawa, be there in 75 minutes.

Be skiing at Mitsumata 30 minutes later.

Not many people complain about the conditions up there.

[nippontiger 8]

Rental of everything is typically 5000 yen per day at most resorts and that's usually for the cheapest stuff from 10 years ago. Much better to just get your own stuff - particularly if you plan on going more than one or two days. I bet you can get everything for next to nothing on yahoo auction if you are not too fussy (and if you plan to rent, you'd better not be...!). In terms of paces to go, also consider Hakuba, Nozawa, yuzawa, Zao. There's hundreds of others but these are among the better options for a multi day stay IMO and would be a good intro.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Nagano has a direct bullet train from Tokyo. I don't know if you'll have a rail pass or not but its less than 2 hours from Tokyo to Nagano city and then about 1.5 hrs to Hakuba from there via one of the many busses from Nagano city. I think if you want a more Japanese experience going to Myoko Kogen in Niigata would be nice. It's much more "authentic" than Hakuba. I like Aussies too but when in Japan its nice to be in Japan. I've only heard amazing things about the Niseko experience though...

 

Nagano city itself doesn't have any ski resorts though.....at least not that I know. From Nagano city a shuttle bus trip of between 1.5-2hrs is needed to reach anywhere.

 

 

Why does Niseko get so much more love (at least among the people I know)? Is it bigger/steeper or just more snow?

 

Well this is a can of worms!! Niseko gets most of the international press as it has a huge marketing machine behind it. It has been developed by and marketed for the overseas market, which is rather rare in Japan. That said, it IS fantastic. The snow is top notch, there is a ton of it and its a brilliant place to ride. However thats not to say that the other Japanese resorts aren't any good. The hills of Hokkaido tend to be smaller and not as steep as those on Honshu. Both areas get crazy amounts of top notch snow, with Hokkaido edging it on consistently great snow conditions IMO. I live down the other side of Yokohama where there are no ski resorts, so I have to take the shinkansen from Tokyo. When I go, I usually go to Yuzawa for the reasons I stated above......its easily accessed, there's a choice of many resorts all between 10-30 mins shuttle bus ride away from the same Shinkansen station (Echigo Yuzawa). Kagura-Mitsumata is the biggest resort in the area and I have rode here the most out of any Japanese resort. I have had just as good snow here than I've had the couple of times I've been in Hokkaido.....but I've also had crud. Kagura is connected to the next biggest resort of Naeba by a large gondola, this is combined area is called Mt Naeba ski area. Both resorts in their own right are good places to ride, but I like Kagura better for it access to easy poachable trees and just off the piste powder. The other Yuzawa resorts are good fun for a day but IMO they can be a little small, especially if you don't know the good spots.

 

If time constraints were an issue, then I'd hit Yuzawa for day trips.....you should get just as good conditions here than anywhere else. The Nagano resorts are ace as well, but you may not get to ride until about 10-11 am (If coming from Tokyo, factoring in hiring gear and extra shuttle bus time). Hokkaido will be great if time isn't an issue.

[Gunma Boarder 14]

+1 for Yuzawa

[onehunga 26]

I am going to be living in Tokyo for the month of February and would love to try to make it up to some of this legendary powder I've heard so much about. The main issue is the logistics for my situation and suggestions would be greatly appreciated on how to go about this trip. I will likely only have four nights (maybe flexible but not sure) to go skiing.

 

 

Rental vers Buying cheap (Outlet mall, Yahoo Autions) is going to depend on whether the four nights is all you can do for the whole month. If you have weekends free you could easly go "local" on the weekends and to Hokkaido for your four nights.

If you do get the weekends to play may make it worthwile to either bring or ship over your own gear.

[JohnPaulIII 0]

Gary's post about buying is VERY correct. Even going to second hand shop you can pick up a decent board with bindings for under 10,000 yen. I got mine for a third that price and have been riding it hard for the last 2 seasons. Skis are also available in abundance. Boots may be a bigger challenge though if your size is above 28 Japan (10.5 USA)

[ippy 66]

From Nagano:

 

Myoko: 45 munites on the train. 20-30 minutes on bus. Very few buses though so you HAVE to be on the 8.12 train from nagano to catch them. Alternatively you can get the bus from the station leaving around 9.20ish. Direct to your resort. But i think it takes about an hour.

 

Nozawa: 50 minute train; 10 minutes twddling your thumbs; 15 minute bus; 10-15 minute walk up the hill or wait a few minutes for shuttle bus direct to resort (about 10 minutes total). Again, bus leaves station around 9.15ish and is just over an hour.

 

Shiga Kogen: Probably best to take direct bus. Leaves around same time, takes about 1.5hours. Otherwise its train on NON JR LINE outside the station to yudanaka which can take about 60-70 minutes and then bus from yudanaka to shiga kogen which is a good 40 minutes to an hour if i remember right. Without a car, bus is 100% best option unless youre staying at yudanaka.

 

Hakuba: Train ONLY from osaka/kyoto side (nagoya to matsumoto to kamishiro/hakuba - Theres no direct train from nagano). If youre on that line then alls good. Just pop up on the train and either get the shuttle up to the hill. Should take an hour plus. Alternatively, bus from station (leaves regularly) reaches goryu/47 in just over an hour.

 

Thats really the big 4. Other than that, iizuna and kurohime are both on the Naoetsu/myoko line (no idea because ive never gotten off the train there,but kurohime seems pretty close to the station). Ryuoo/kijimadaira/xjam/takai fuji are serviced either from yudanaka or from bus at nagano. Madarao/tangram might be doable by train then shuttle bus from iiyama. Still dont have details on this but would dearly love them because i hate buses. Give me a train ride and a shuttle bus from iiyama any day. Otherwise bus from the station direct again.

 

As Tubby says:

 

Gala yuzawa is direct. Just fewer shinkansens to choose from. Alternatively you ca pick up the 3 mountain pass (gala, ishiuchi, yuzawa kogen), get the train to echigo (about 70 minutes) then walk about 300 meters up the road to the ropeway for yuzawa kogen.

 

Kagura is shink from tokyo then 20 minute bus to mitsumata. If you stay at wadagoya (weekdays would be great) then not only do you score first tracks, you also get a MASSIVELY discounted kagura/naeba ticket allowing you to use the dragondola. I cant think of anything better than a couple of weekdays with powder drops in january/february at kagura/naeba. Get bored of one, go to the other one and enjoy a completely untracked pair of resorts to yourself and about 50 other people over a MASSIVE area.

[onehunga 26]

Gary's post about buying is VERY correct. Even going to second hand shop you can pick up a decent board with bindings for under 10,000 yen. I got mine for a third that price and have been riding it hard for the last 2 seasons. Skis are also available in abundance. Boots may be a bigger challenge though if your size is above 28 Japan (10.5 USA)

 

My local BookOff has plenty of second hand gear, most better than what I've seen at some resort rental places, for very low prices. However if you are over 6 foot you may have problems finding second hand stuff that fits.

[jokemaker323 0]

Thanks again guys. These replies are incredibly helpful. I am 184cm (6ft) and have around a size 44eu (12 US) foot so it sounds like that could be an issue. Maybe I will have to lug my boots after all, but I'm definitely not bringing skis. If I didn't bring boots, do you think rental shops would have that size?

 

Also to consider for resort destination is that I want to be able to easily ski off piste powder without us having to be totally clueless and possibly at risk. I have absolutely no idea how Japanese areas control for avalanches or how big of a concern they are. In North America, everything is controlled for within the boundaries of big resort whereas in the Alps, anything off piste is uncontrolled. Ideally, there would be reasonably safe and good backcountry skiing to be had wherever we end up. Finally, I looked at Yuzawa just with a quick google and read it is only 250m vertical? Did I search the wrong thing or is it a really small hill? If you had to pick your favorite three places for great powder skiing, what would they be? Also, how is Hakuba?

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Thanks again guys. These replies are incredibly helpful. I am 184cm (6ft) and have around a size 44eu (12 US) foot so it sounds like that could be an issue. Maybe I will have to lug my boots after all, but I'm definitely not bringing skis. If I didn't bring boots, do you think rental shops would have that size?

 

I think you'd be taking a risk. Best to bring boots, if possible.

 

Also to consider for resort destination is that I want to be able to easily ski off piste powder without us having to be totally clueless and possibly at risk. I have absolutely no idea how Japanese areas control for avalanches or how big of a concern they are. In North America, everything is controlled for within the boundaries of big resort whereas in the Alps, anything off piste is uncontrolled. Ideally, there would be reasonably safe and good backcountry skiing to be had wherever we end up. Finally, I looked at Yuzawa just with a quick google and read it is only 250m vertical? Did I search the wrong thing or is it a really small hill? If you had to pick your favorite three places for great powder skiing, what would they be? Also, how is Hakuba?

 

Yuzawa is a town, not a hill... Did you look up Yuzawa Kogen, perhaps? If so, try looking up Kagura instead. For example, here is one of Gary's videos:

 

http://www.sj.snowjapan.tv/videos/478/kagura-the-white-room/

[nippontiger 8]

If you are looking for some powdery runs on the side, Kagura is one of your best bets around Yuzawa. Hakuba area you'd be looking to go to Cortina - hard to find anything at happo or 47/goryu. Nozawa onsen has some easily findable/accessible tree runs if I remember rightly and also some of the Myoko resorts but I've never been there - perhaps someone else could advise you. By far and away the best for easily findable/accessible tree runs is gonna be Niseko - sure people know their stashes at hakuba and so on but try finding them without someone showing you. Also, the nighta is great. Having said that, Niseko is a bit far for a four day trip, you will only meet Aussies there and I heard that its pretty busy these days and gets tracked out quite quickly, but again, haven't been there for a few years.

[ippy 66]

In truth i dont think the vert on any of the yuzawa resorts is that huge (i stand ready to be corrected), but plenty of lift accessed and relatively soft slackcountry tree riding at kagura. What it also has though is lift accessed hikeable backcountry. Well... sidecountry again, but whereas you probably wont need to be fully kitted out for riding the common stuff at kagura, you should really be bringing your avi gear for the real off piste there.

 

Its almost mirrored in myoko. Plenty of places that are straightforward and easy to hit up at both Akakan and Suginohara. But like kagura, myoko also has accessible lift accessed plus hike slackcountry up and out. Again ive never done it, (no gears or hiking), but its there and its accessible. Plenty of reviews of myoko with it detailed. As ever get a guided tour if you really want to know it because its allegedly treacherous in certain spots (serious crevices that you need to avoid).

 

Slackcountry and tree riding in nozawa is up at yamabiko. There are other spots, i havent in truth looked for them because im on my own and nozawa is a pretty scary mountain to be honest for random exploration. It does have one serious line, but full backcountry gear and knowledge would be a must have to ride it safely. If you treat it as a backcountry line then youll be alright, but dont treat it like a soft slackcountry like like some of the kagura/myoko tree runs. But if you havent got a guide, or serious local knowledge id honestly stick to the common lines up yamabiko and not deviate too much from them. Theres a couple of smaller lines through the trees dotted throughout the resort, but from purely riding it and not taking too many chances, its all kinda tight in there, and more often than not requires a bit a leap of faith since the exit line isnt as easy to figure out as it might be in other places (and aside yamabiko, there arent really that many lines leading off the beaten track to show you whats happening).

 

Niseko on the other had has long fun slackcountry lines through the gates. Theyre pretty safe going, rather tracked, but honestly youll find relatively fresh lines if you either get up early enough or just have a bit of an explore. Dont do any of the lines off the backside i think it is without a guide though or extensive bc experience. Im fairly certain there are slide areas (at least thats what i was told), and also its easy to get lost. Oh, and once you hit goshiki youll be needing a car to bring you back anyways.

 

Truth be told i can only tell you what little i know about these areas. I dont hike, and im too lazy to bootpack, but both myoko and kagura have decent easy to access slackcountry riding as well as reams of pow. Niseko has far better lift accessed slackcountry riding, but is a bit of a mission to get to. Youll definitely be needing at least 3 days to really enjoy yourself and not feel youre having to rush it or cut corners to see the good bits. Its also kinda pricey.

 

So id say if you do have a free four days and money isnt an issue, head to niseko. Best and easiest accessed slackcountry (requiring almost no understanding of slackcountry) in japan. The decision making on whether its safe to ride is pretty much taken out your hands by the gates and the avi report. Its still slackcountry, but as GN might point out, its massively safe unless youre a serious idiot. (i am).

 

If however youre looking for diversity, and maybe some weekends, then youre not going to beat a couple of days at any of the nagano resorts (shiga, hakuba, nozawa, the mighty kosha and im going to say Myoko too, since its really accessed via nagano), or the niigata resorts like kagura/naeba, the big 3 (gala, ishiuchi, yuz kogen), maiko, and er iwappara... never rely went to the smaller places to be honest). Oh, and theres also the gunma resorts, with Tenjin probably one of the most famous backcountry lines in Japan if people on internet and in reviews are to be beleived - its also the starting point for a HUGE backcountry line off some mountain near it thats a few hours away from the resort as i found out according to some old grizzly japanese off piste skier in the gondola at kagura last year). On top of that i think Hodaigi is your next bet, but ill leave it to teh people who ride gunma to explain that.

 

Still, if it was me, and i had 4 weekends free to play here, id probably hit up one of the big resorts in nagano, one of the niigata ones then maybe head to yamagata for a ride on zao (why would you skip this place if its your one chance to be here), and then another nagano one.

 

Nozawa, Zao, Kagura/naeba, and Shiga Kogen. Thatll japanese ski jo the hell out of you

 

If its powder powder, go niseko/rusutsu/kiroro/chisenupuri (untracked gem if you have a car - the onsen is great though but bus only goes there for the onsen after 4ish and there isnt one for the morning if i remember right)

 

If its weekend powder/slackcountry but not niseko then maybe myoko, kagura/naeba, nozawa and if youre feeling massively experimental, tenjindaira. If not, maybe a weekend at hakuba or Shiga kogen or maybe even a day at madarao/tangram and anotherat Ryuoo which is beyond awesome.

 

But any one of nozawa, zao, shiga kogen, hakuba, myoko, kagura/naeba should keep you super occupied and happy. Truth is youll run out of time before you run out of fun places to ride. Whether its backcountry, slackcountry, on piste, apres, powder, or the Japanese cultural experience, youll find more than enough to keep you going.

[jokemaker323 0]

Thanks a ton guys. I am leaning toward Nozawa Onsen right now. How does that sound??

 

So kind of urgent question since i am packing right now. Bringing my gear is going to be a problem. I am a long time skier. I am not an equipment snob by any means, but I don't want total garbage either. Will renting in the Nozawa/Nagano area be at all problematic to get decent stuff (and I really just mean decent, nothing special)? I would plan to go with a guided group in the back country for a couple of days and then ski the pistes for a day or two.

 

Finally, I am 184cm (6ft) and my foot size is US 11.5/12. That looks like a 29.5/30 in Japanese sizes and 28cm. Is this going to pose a huge problem or can I expect there will be a choice or two with that size? I am not bigfoot or anything, but I gather that it is large by Japanese standards.

 

Let me know what you think as soon as you can because I am leaving soon and thanks again for all of the great info!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

At least bring ur boots.......your feet are very big for Japan and boots will be rarer than hen's teeth.

[jokemaker323 0]

So rental shops just don't have boots that big? Googling around does give some hits but I have no idea how it actually is on the ground...websites seem to be saying they have at least to 30cm (i am 28) but i don't really know if that just means there is one pair and it can easily be out..

 

Also, totally unrelated, but a friend told me I will be in the region where the snow monkeys relax in their own private onsen and that would be pretty fun to see. I probably wouldn't travel half way around the world to see it, but if I am in the area, it definitely could be cool. What do you guys think? Is it a fun excursion for a day from wherever you are staying? Is Nozawa reasonably accessible to it?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I would err on the side of caution if I were you.

[Go Native 70]

Niseko gets most of the international press as it has a huge marketing machine behind it. It has been developed by and marketed for the overseas market, which is rather rare in Japan.

 

I've always found this idea to be a little amusing. As someone who was in Niseko from near the start of it's meteoric rise in international popularity it's actually quite laughable. Sure these days it has got a little more sophisticated as larger companies have come into the region but in the early years there was no real 'marketing machine' at all. Marketing 'managers', if a company actually had one, were generally just ski bums with no qualifications or experience in marketing whatsoever. The marketing was really basic and totally unsophisticated. The only 'sophisticated' thing about the marketing coming out of Niseko was that it was in English. And people could ring up to make bookings and get information totally in English.

 

The biggest drawcard though which saw numbers rise dramatically was the development of western accommodation. The vast bulk of Western customers just didn't like sleeping on futons in small, spartan rooms. And a fair proportion want self-contained accommodation, especially families, so that they don't have to eat out for every single meal.They especially wanted more luxurious accommodation than was on offer in what was a pretty dilapidated village at the turn of this century. Once there was the quality of accommodation and services that the well heeled international skiing market wanted, that could packaged up nicely, then travel agents throughout the world did most of the marketing for the place.

In the end word of mouth was the most successful marketing for Niseko.The companies that set up there really didn't have to invest that much in marketing and advertising. It's only in more recent years as competition for customers has increased greatly that companies have actually started hiring people with marketing qualifications and experience. Well it was only then they could actually afford to hire people who actually knew what they were doing.