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Ok this is going to be harsh but here goes.   Ippy Tommy Australia is not my responsibility in an Internet forum. I'm more than happy to share lines with people if I meet and ride with them. A rope

I can't claim to know as many patrol/rescue people at Niseko as GN no doubt does, but since a long gondola ride with one patroller several years ago (after which I stopped ducking ropes) I take every

I do not hold any view to protect any line. This Forum is used as an information gateway for many holiday makers which tend to be in the mid range level. I have met many SJ people and I'm not trying t

I'm sure Nick Hall's family would appreciate your sentiment, GN.

 

Seattle Times, June 21, 2012

Nick Hall, a climbing ranger at Mount Rainier National Park, fell 3,700 feet to his death Thursday afternoon, after helping rescue two climbers who had fallen into a crevasse, according to a park news release. The two women who fell into the crevasse were part of a party of four, two women and two men, from Waco, Texas.

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Risk is a part of this sport.

Numbers of people in the slackcountry is going up not down. People ARE objectively taking more risks.

Information and access to information helps people in calculating their risks.

This doesnt make slackcountry any less dangerous, just like having stage 2 avi training doesnt make avalanche terrain any less dangerous.

It just helps you make clearer decisions.

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I can't claim to know as many patrol/rescue people at Niseko as GN no doubt does, but since a long gondola ride with one patroller several years ago (after which I stopped ducking ropes) I take every chance to chat with the ones I run into and 100% they say their biggest problem is people ducking ropes and then needing to be found/rescued. Even when it's not particularly dangerous for them, it's a lot of work and takes them away from doing other important stuff -- like opening up legit terrain after a big dump.

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Actually the akakan part BM posted above helps reinforce the policy id like to see. The other areas are fine (except that line under champion 3 lift that looks terrifying - but i doi see lines on it). I know from personal experience that because this area is marked very clearly as extremely dangerous whilst the rest of the resort is a little less... marked. That i have never once gone under that rope to see whats behind it. I dont think i ever will. I just dont fancy dying all that much. This marks a clear threat to my life (and er, rescuers lives), In conjunction with teh laissez faire policy of the resort patrol, it actually amplifies the message of just how dangerous that area is. It might be actually just a bit difficult for all i know. But the point is i wont know because i wont be ducking it until they pull down that death sign. :)

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Hasn't Go Native said on may times in the past that he basically just doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself.

 

I wouldn't take him too seriously on that, Ski. After all, it wasn't so long ago that he was insisting Japan was the best place in the world and nothing would stop him from living here for the rest of his life. :lol:

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I have worked as patrol for quite a long time now and for the most part I love my job.

I do enjoy being able to help people as well as doing the normal day to day stuff.

And I am less keen on the attitude some people take at resorts where they basically ignore the signs and the rules and just do what they want without any regard for anyone else other than themselves - and often not even for themselves.

Do I want to risk my life for them? Of course I don't, though we will do what we need to do to try and prevent any accidents from happening.

But it can be very frustrating.

Unfortunately the fact is that there are more foreigners doing this as well and it's not doing any good for reputations... broad brush strokes and all that.

 

I suppose I'm one of those people who generally doesn't really take to selfish people off the slopes too.

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And what would that be if safety isnt the concern then... lets walk through this logic...

 

If safety isnt the reason doesnt this actually encourage people to dismiss the rope? Isnt thsi encouraging people riding under OTHER ropes when they tracked under it and found nothing there. Doesnt the uneventful nature of said line also encourage ski patrol to adopt a more blind eye approach to the area that helps reinforce those mixed signals. How does simply sticking a rope there with no other information help anyone here? You seem to bang on about safety, but what youre proposing leads to less information and more risk when people do eventually duck under that rope - and they will, (i keep trying to stress this point but you keep assuming its trivial), since numbers in slackcountry are going UP not down. This is the actual reality of the situation. The whole decision to shut down discussion by personalizing and moralizing the issue puts people in greater danger, not less.

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I have worked as patrol for quite a long time now and for the most part I love my job.

I do enjoy being able to help people as well as doing the normal day to day stuff.

And I am less keen on the attitude some people take at resorts where they basically ignore the signs and the rules and just do what they want without any regard for anyone else other than themselves - and often not even for themselves.

Do I want to risk my life for them? Of course I don't, though we will do what we need to do to try and prevent any accidents from happening.

But it can be very frustrating.

Unfortunately the fact is that there are more foreigners doing this as well and it's not doing any good for reputations... broad brush strokes and all that.

 

I suppose I'm one of those people who generally doesn't really take to selfish people off the slopes too.

I actually strongly appreciate your input. I know you might think the opposite. There was a dude at myoko last year who was excellent. He came up to me and said "is your mate alright?" and then proceeded to tell me that were kind of okay where we are, but not to go much further left because the area was slide prone and conditions that day were sketch enough to trigger one. This doenst make me want to ride that area by telling me about its existence. It makes me want to avoid it. A lot of the assumptions on this thread carry the idea that talking about slackcountry encourages it. i strongly disagree with this.

 

The patroller's information was clear, rational, impartial, (grown up), and backed with genuine authority. i would honestly love nothing more than ski patrols to actually list incidents in certain areas and the clear marking of hazards and the causes. This is in conjunction with every other mechanism you have out at your disposal (ropes, signs, and resort exclusion). I guarantee it would cut down on ducking incidents massively and make your jobs easier not harder.

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I do not hold any view to protect any line. This Forum is used as an information gateway for many holiday makers which tend to be in the mid range level. I have met many SJ people and I'm not trying to insult but they aren't avi savvy advanced skiers. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to insult anyone. This forum is not populated by professionals in the ski industry (ie patrol owners SAR) to a large degree.

 

If you want to ride the terrain buy a map and study it. You will see what is there and what isn't. I don't think trusting someone on an Internet for holiday makers is the way forward nor is it going to push a resort to, "properly mark their boundaries". There are more factors than you think. Are the staff even trained to open such an area. You don't know so why suggest that this rope means nothing. Hey go ahead duck it the patrol only get angry at level 2 on the aggro scale. In fact in the grand picture most of Japans best lines lay in huge terrain traps that no resort in the world would open anyways. Your Nozawa information of 3 ridges of terrain traps is a great example of how much you really don't know.

 

There is a certain moral responsibility that goes with telling someone where to slide. To say that there isn't and that you are just posting numbers really is not true. You are giving people information that they may/or should have learned on their own. Not because it has to be kept secret but because they aren't ready to make that decision yet. Riding in uncontrolled terrain has risks at anytime whether there is a gate or not. This is Japan for better or for worse. The systems in place at resorts may or may not be at an international standards and for the most part you just don't know. Go ask Noz how many patrol they staff for the day. Maybe then you wont encourage people to duck rope AB and C.

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The only people who know any kind of details about who uses these forums and our site, outside of simple observations, is us. And by us, in this case, I mean 3 people.

I just thought I would point that out.

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I also wanna contest the "it's mostly foreigners ducking" theory. Certainly up at Kagura the vast majority who are ducking ropes are Japanese, lets not kid ourselves. What may be more apt to say is there's a higher percentage of duckers in the Gaij visitors.....ie of all the Gaij visiting the resort, a larger percentage of them duck compared with the percentage of Japanese in the resort who duck....that doesn't mean that there are numerically more gaij duckers than Japanese.

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Hasn't Go Native said on may times in the past that he basically just doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself.

It's hardly a new line.

 

And this is typical of your input on this forum. Only come on to have a go at someone. Actually addressing and discussing the topic of the thread is a rarity for you ski.

 

 

I'm sure Nick Hall's family would appreciate your sentiment, GN.

 

Seattle Times, June 21, 2012

Nick Hall, a climbing ranger at Mount Rainier National Park, fell 3,700 feet to his death Thursday afternoon, after helping rescue two climbers who had fallen into a crevasse, according to a park news release. The two women who fell into the crevasse were part of a party of four, two women and two men, from Waco, Texas.

 

Gee, cry me a river :rolleyes:

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That's my point tho......overall and not just concentrating on the big areas, through sheer strength of numbers, I'd bet Ippy's next word count that there are far more Japanese who duck than foreigners

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There are less gaijin at Kagura than say the big H, N or MtG.

 

And they are more noticed.

 

:lol: I like how as an after thought you added a post that actually contributes something to the topic!

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I do not hold any view to protect any line. This Forum is used as an information gateway for many holiday makers which tend to be in the mid range level. I have met many SJ people and I'm not trying to insult but they aren't avi savvy advanced skiers. That is my opinion and I'm not trying to insult anyone. This forum is not populated by professionals in the ski industry (ie patrol owners SAR) to a large degree.

 

If you want to ride the terrain buy a map and study it. You will see what is there and what isn't. I don't think trusting someone on an Internet for holiday makers is the way forward nor is it going to push a resort to, "properly mark their boundaries". There are more factors than you think. Are the staff even trained to open such an area. You don't know so why suggest that this rope means nothing. Hey go ahead duck it the patrol only get angry at level 2 on the aggro scale. In fact in the grand picture most of Japans best lines lay in huge terrain traps that no resort in the world would open anyways. Your Nozawa information of 3 ridges of terrain traps is a great example of how much you really don't know.

 

There is a certain moral responsibility that goes with telling someone where to slide. To say that there isn't and that you are just posting numbers really is not true. You are giving people information that they may/or should have learned on their own. Not because it has to be kept secret but because they aren't ready to make that decision yet. Riding in uncontrolled terrain has risks at anytime whether there is a gate or not. This is Japan for better or for worse. The systems in place at resorts may or may not be at an international standards and for the most part you just don't know. Go ask Noz how many patrol they staff for the day. Maybe then you wont encourage people to duck rope AB and C.

 

Interestingly, dont you think youre kinda making my point by illustrating that i know NOTHING about nozawa. Couldnt i claim the following few facts about this based on your own rationale;

 

1. Youre tacitly encouraging me to duck by infomring me of the existence of other lines.

2. Leaving it at that just encourages me to randomly explore to find those lines.

3. You are putting me at greater risk by not elaborating.

4. You might as well come into my house and shoot me! AND the ski patrol that come to rescue me and die trying!

 

Yeah, i might be a little cheeky here, its all good clean discussion, but can we stop attacking the messenger. if you want more safety info then hows about you provide more info instead of just sneering that more infomration means im trying to murder people. Im following your logic above. Im simply extrapolating from what youve told me about only knowing about three ridge lines that theres more to nozzie than meets the eye. Ergo, if we follow your logic, im now at much more risk.

 

HOWEVER.

 

I would argue that instead id be more inclined to maybe ask questions of those people you referred me to (the nozzie patrol), about lines and dangers. And honestly ski patrol ar usually very forthcoming with information. Not to help me, but because it educates me of the dangers and makes me make a clear and rational decision based upon that prospective danger. So you wanna tell me about the lines or are you just going to put a gun directly to my head by staying silent on them :naughty: :p

 

Can we just honestly get off this fake dichotomy. Information about slackcountry is not a bad thing in itself. Provide people with information and they can make calculated decisions. Provide them with no information except the line you made when you (with yoru vast array of information) decided to pop under the rope, puts them in significantly greater danger.

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:lol:

 

Like what Ippy said, it appears that more punters want to experience that untouched powder run and resorts will eventually have to respond if they want to stay in business. Education is a huge way that they can respond, just saying "No" doesn't work. Humans are naturally inquisitive animals and its in our nature to push the boundaries of our existence......giving out information means that it's less risky to push those boundaries.

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