7-11 2 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Would it be beter to make more per skier visit say modest 10% increase but and have the numbers drop down say by 5%? How about I change the numbers. After all, yours are pure guesswork as well Would it be beter to make more per skier visit say modest 10% increase but and have the numbers drop down say by 15%? Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I just feel that people are being increasingly careful with money and have less of it to spend. Skiing is going to continue to suffer because of it. And putting up prices will simply have people going elsewhere. For some, perhaps a lot, of people 500-1000 yen on a ticket does make a difference. You're never going to get them all to increase prices anyway and so there will always be the places that price aggressively to get the people in. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I honestly dont mind price increases. My only concern is collusion on it. Let the market speak and all that. If hapo raised its prices, id go to goryu, if the whole hakuba districtraised its price, id go to nozawa and so on. The thing is, havent prices been actually coming down over the past few years. Not necessarily in the on the door ticket, but more in the proliferation of coupons, deals, those multipack passes, and special tickets given to lodges. If anything the market is speaking volumes on this. Ski jos just cant interest enough people full stop and ARE having to fight aggressively to go to THEIR skijo instead of hakuba or shiga or nozawa. Actually thats wrong since nozawa have a deal where you bring a previous ticket and you get 500 yen off your day pass. Things like this really suggest that price rises would cripple them rather than help them. First it appears they need to get people back on the slopes, only the wouldthey be in any state to start raising prices and losing 5% of their custom. Link to post Share on other sites
nagoid 4 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I honestly dont mind price increases. My only concern is collusion on it. Let the market speak and all that. If hapo raised its prices, id go to goryu, if the whole hakuba districtraised its price, id go to nozawa and so on. Sounds to me there like you do mind price increases, ippy! Link to post Share on other sites
HighlyTrainedNovaTeacher 2 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I just think there are way too many skijo for the number of skiers/boarders out there as it is. Sadly lots of them would need to close down for the strongest to survice, desho? Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My numbers are guess work but they are also the kind of questions resort managers should be asking themselves. I saw some good 1 hour lift lines just to stand in another lift line after that. I dont need to do that again. Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I have no doubt they do ask the questions. And the result is the lift ticket prices stay the same or get effectively cheaper, because putting them up would reduce numbers. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I just think there are way too many skijo for the number of skiers/boarders out there as it is. Sadly lots of them would need to close down for the strongest to survice, desho? I don't think anyone doubts that, but for a Hakuba/Nozawa/Shiga Kogen level resort, it only leads down a shouganai suck air through teeth defeatist blind alley. There is plenty of money being spent in Hakuba. More than enough for a well-run company with lifts and other activities to operate in the black. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My numbers are guess work but they are also the kind of questions resort managers should be asking themselves. I saw some good 1 hour lift lines just to stand in another lift line after that. I dont need to do that again. Even if we did go by your numbers here is what would happen. (I'm using 2001 numbers from this site because I couldn't find anything current). I'm also assuming that every single visitor pays the full price single day lift ticket which gives the best case revenue scenario even though we know this is not the case. 659,379 visitors x 4600¥ = 303,314万 626,410 (5% less visitors) x 5060¥ (10% increase) = 316,963万 an increase of 13,649万 This may seem good except that this only represents a 4.5% increase in revenue for the ski lift companies while the overall resort economy suffers a 5% loss because there are 5% less visitors booking rooms, eating out etc. Also, keep in mind that this is the absolute best case scenario for the lift company because I calculated that each visitor pays the full day single ticket price. The real increase in revenue would likely be closer (or lower) than 4%. If there were a 10% decline in visitors because of the price increase the lifts would actually clear 300,281万 for a total revenue loss of -3,032万. This represents a loss of about 1% of lift revenue and a 10% loss of the overall resort economy. You can only really successfully increase prices when the demand outstrips the supply. With ski resorts around here I think that will take a lot of closures of smaller places to make that happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My limited understanding is that most resort ski areas in North America are happy just to break even on lift operations, because the real money is in land development and ancillary services. For historical reasons, that model hasn't translated well into Japan, although by purchasing land on the cheap the Australians have apparently done quite well in Niseko (and are now selling out at huge profits to the Chinese?) Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 ...who plan to install weaponry for upcoming war. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 although by purchasing land on the cheap the Australians have apparently done quite well in Niseko (and are now selling out at huge profits to the Chinese?) Is that still happening? The Chinese bit? Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Don't see why not. I'm sure someone can come up with a 2000-year-old map somewhere that proves Niseko has always been an integral part of Chinese territory Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 So do the Chinese own much up there now? Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 YTL (OK, it's Malaysian, but Chinese-Malaysian) owns Higashiyama and Li Ka-shing's son bought Hanazono, so that's half the skiing. Isn't it again some ethnic Chinese billionaire who bought up the old Yamada/Scot sites? GN probably knows more about ownership of the various luxury condo developments, but rumor has them aimed at sales to Chinese. Link to post Share on other sites
1 4 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well, my income ain't going up so the cash I have to spend is pretty restricted. So if prices go up I'll have no choice really but to cut back on frequency. Which would suck. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 If you first skied in Japan in 1996 you've never seen a real lift line! If you never skied in Aus, you have NFI what a lift line is like!! Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Wild guess, but is it a line of skiers/snowboarders waiting to get on a ski lift? Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Wild guess, but is it a line of skiers/snowboarders waiting to get on a ski lift? That doesn't sound very enjoyable. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I dunno, JA, Naeba on a 1986 holiday weekend had more skiers on the hill than Australia's entire population. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 on each lift! Link to post Share on other sites
systemsguy 0 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 How things change! Link to post Share on other sites
flabbergaster 0 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Sorry for the newbie question but if lots of companies own a mountain, how do they split up the revenues? I see on photos and hear that lots of places still have paper tickets. Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 electronic tickets. Link to post Share on other sites
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