Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 My wife and I are heading to Rusutsu and Furano in February... We have our own boots but are looking to buy skis.[/size] I have my eyes on two pairs The first will be my wife's - 2012 Atomic Cloud 8 144cm Skis w/ Atomic XTL 9 Lady Bindings. 117 / 73 / 102 The second will be mine - 2012 Atomic Smoke Ti 171cm ski w/ Atomic XTO 12 bindings - 123 / 77 / 107 My wife and I are both part time recreational skiers. We are both solid intermediate with no confidence/ability issues on any intermediate runs. We will be flirting with blacks runs but age and bad knees will limit it to that. We are happy with the mentioned lengths and have gone slightly shorter looking to maintain control over speed. We ski primarily groomed runs with a small play off piste. Both average height to weight ratio. Both good athletic levels. Obviously the amount of skis on the market is bewildering so the question is - The two mentioned skis appear to me to be the way to go. Has anything I have mentioned make you think we are off the mark with these skis? We will spend most of our time on the groomers. I'm pretty happy with every aspect of these two ski's except one thing. Are they wide enough for daily snow dumped groomed runs in Japan. Feel free to argue ... disagree ... a general free for all Link to post Share on other sites
Hokkaidough 4 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 In my experience of both, you will likely be seeing more daily dumped snow in Rusutsu than you will in Furano.... Link to post Share on other sites
FISS 1 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The dimensions of the skis you mentioned should be fine as you predominately ski groomed runs. I have not skied either of those skis so can't comment on how they ski. I would recommend seeing if you can try them in Oz before you buy, many shops have demo programs where you can try the ski and the cost of the demo for the day is taken off the purchase price. Skis are expensive and its good to make sure you are buying something YOU like. Everyone has personal preferences to what makes a good ski, try as many as you can and get the ones that suit you. The snow is much better in Japan than Oz but the skis you mentioned above aren't super stiff and if you like them on the snow in Oz you should love them on the silky snow you will have in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 The only real concern I have about them is width..... Is mid 70's width going to cut it on the groomed thick snow slopes of japan.. if anyone has experience with this particular aspect i'd love to hear it... Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 I'm also figuring if we want to go play in the deep stuff for a day re will just go grab some rentals... Link to post Share on other sites
mitchpee 10 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You're going to want something around 95-100+ I ride a 128 in Japan and it works for almost anything. Those deep, untracked days at Rusutsu will definitely require more than 76mm width skis. You will be thanking yourself when you are floating on cloud 9 in powder all day, trust me. Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Mitch.. thanks for the info... "those deep, untracked days at Rusutsu" .. are you refer to on or off piste... my thoughts were just renting a wide set of planks for a day if i wanted to go off piste .. and that the mentioned width might cut it on the groomed runs? Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If you decide to rent, the resort rental shop at Rusutsu has very limited options as far as wide skis go. About the only "powder" skis they have are the salomon BBRs, from what I can tell, some people love them, some hate them. There is a rental shop across the road which might have better options. We spoke with a couple in January who got some fat skis sent from a rental shop in Niseko because they were unable to get anything which suited their needs at Rusutsu. Link to post Share on other sites
FISS 1 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If you are going off piste in Japan, especially as a not so experienced skier then those 95mm+ waisted skis will definitely be a help. The problem with the fatter ski if you are predominately on groomed terrain or the not so deep powder that builds up on the groomed runs is the sluggish nature it will move from edge to edge. This coupled with usually less side cut on powder skis will mean that turning the ski is far more difficult than the narrower skis. I have skied arm pit deep powder in Japan on skis only 60mm under foot and loved it before the invention of powder skis. Personally I own a multitude of skis from really skinny to really fat and can ski all the mountain on any of them, so don't really see the necessity of having to go much bigger than 70-80mm for skiing the powdery groomed runs in Japan unless you get alot of snow. personally I would go for a mid fat given your description above rather than fat skis if buying them and bringing them along. The hard thing is predicting the amount of snow accumulation on your holiday. If you are waking up every day with another 60cm + sitting on top of the grooming then a fat ski will allow you as an intermediate skier to survive, however if you are unlucky and don't get the powder and end up with hard snow conditions then the fat skis will be harder to turn and grip and will also start to aggravate you knees with the amount of force required to keep them on edge. This is due to the extra leverage that comes on the fat ski as your foot is further from the edge If you can only afford one ski get something you can ski in Japan and at home in Oz. If you buy something super fat it will only be of use to you in soft snow. If you buy something that you like that works in most conditions then if you end up with huge amounts of powder and need to you can always rent. If you don't ski much renting is a great option. It is more expensive than buying if you do a lot of skiing but allows you to choose skis for the conditions and also means not having to travel with them which is a big bonus. The post above covers renting in Rusutsu. Renting in Furano (where I live) is easy. We have a few companies in town renting equipment and they have everything from skinny to fat, cambered to rockered etc and will have something to make skiing our snow enjoyable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gozaimaas 61 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If you decide to rent, the resort rental shop at Rusutsu has very limited options as far as wide skis go. There is a rental shop across the road which might have better options. . Dont count on it! That purple shop is somewhat of a ghost ship, nothing much going on in there I tell you. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I think the big question here is: Are you looking to buy an all round ski that is right for you for Australia, that you can ski on piste with in Japan? A one and only ski purchase, rather than a part of a quiver? And where do you do the most skiing? If you ski mostly in Aus, but it's occasional overseas trips - then you probably won't want your only set of skis to be powder skis. If you are a newly converted Japanophile and will be skiing Aus rarely since discovering JaPOW then yes, powder skis are probably the way to go. Just rent in Aus for those hard packed icy days. If you are likely to buy more than one pair of skis...sure, why not get powder planks, and then pick up some skinnier skis for Aus. next season. Son#2 has bought some skis this season, totally suitable for Aus conditions and on piste skiing. They eat up the wind sheared ice while I bite the big one on my board - so jealous at how well they handle ice. But he has promised himself a pair of powder skis if he gets to dothe season in Japan. It makes sense having both options when you are skiing for a long period of time. But how long is long enough to justify it? That's up to you Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 FISS... thankyou ... your input/advice is very much appreciated Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Mamabear .. thanks also... the picture is becoming clearer.... Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The profiles I recommend to my students skiing on and off the groomed runs in Japan are : Length of ski - one which sits between your chin and nose whilst wearing ski boots Tip - In the 125 - 135 mm range Waist - In the 75 - 85 mm range Radius - In the 14 - 18 m range The latest tip only rockered skis provide a great ride on the groomed and help dramatically when transitioning to off groomed powder conditions. As an example, the K2 Superslide is an excellent choice for the female skier (127-80-110) and the K2 Rictor (127-80-109) for the male skier. There are similar models available from the major manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 MikePow... thanks for the input... much appreciated.. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Tracking back with a really basic duh question, why does width make much of a difference? Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Wider skis give you more support or `float' in powder. Simple equation, adding 10mm of width to a 1700mm long ski yields a far greater addition in surface area (and thus support) than adding 10mm of length. The more support you have the easier it becomes to ski powder: you don't have to work as hard because your skis aren't sinking so deep. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 And conversely, a wider waist width (or wide all around - tip, waist & tail) can be less responsive on groomed runs and in the bumps. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 As Mike said (albeit experts in his class can ski bottomless powder on 65mm slalom skis or icy bumps on 120mm powder boards). His recommendation earlier of something 75-85mm underfoot is pretty spot on, I think, although if you're talking about mainly Hokkaido I'd go at least the wide end of that range. Excepting some of the real powder-specific boutique outfits pretty much every ski company makes outstanding skis in those widths. There's always going to be a bit of compromise between hard/soft snow performance; you just need to decide which is more important to you -- or you can join the gearaholic crowd and realize you do indeed need at least two pairs! Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 thanks to all the responses guys.... feel free to keep em coming .... Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You know what, I didn't know any of this really. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 It's been invaluable for me.... I've got responses from guys who are living and skiing in the areas where i'm going skiing. I know we all have different opinions about things but you just start looking at the common threads through the responses and you get a lot of your queries answered. Still interested in any thoughts other may have... Link to post Share on other sites
Cameronandcaron 0 Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ok, have listened, researched looked looked and looked and have come up with two ski's (mine and wifes) Mine: Head All Mountain Peak 84 Ski W/Bindings Peak 84 Pro All Mountain Dimensions 15.4m @ 128/84/112, 171 cm length Wife: Rossignol Temptation 78 skis w/ Saphir 110 bindings 2012 Sidecut: 122-78-111 Radius:15.4m 150cm length Again guys feel free to criticize, congratulate, ridicule If anyone wants to address these queries... would be appreciated. I am a solid intermediate utterly fearless and at home on blue runs with a play on the blacks at times... Have I looked at a ski that is too good for me? The wifes ski is only a 78mm wide BUT she is only petite at 60 kgs hence im thinking that the lower weight "adds" to the width? thoughts ????????????? Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 You won't go far wrong with those selections IMHO Link to post Share on other sites
FISS 1 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Had a quick look at the skis in question and although I haven't personally ridden them they seem like they should be good for you needs. I totally agree with the dimensions that MikePow gave you, I especially like the fact he included appropriate radii for your skis as often powder skis will have a larger 21+m radius which will not be what you need. Once you get your skis and head to Japan, if you end up with powder and haven't skied it before then I would strongly advise that you take a ski lesson. There are a few tactics that will prove invaluable when trying to ski soft snow and spending a few bucks for instruction will have you falling over less and getting to grips with it earlier. Link to post Share on other sites
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