Despicable newspapers of the world

[Go Native 70]

I don't know. I just seem to constantly be surrounded by stupid people. It's a curse of being so intelligent I guess! Or just a consequence of being back in Australia

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Well there ya go!

Go Native needs a better quality of friend and acquaintance..

 

I'll admit there are a few people less educated or aware than me, around me...but I wouldn't say they are as dumb as dog shit, and even they are capable of engaging in a discussion of multiple points of view, examining differences of opinion and agreeing to disagree. I suppose being obstinate and judgemental of others is the exclusive right of the super intelligent then...

 

 

[Go Native 70]

I don't count my friends in that MB. Most of my friends have PhD's in all sorts of the sciences. Amongst my friends I'd be the dunce!

I'm talking about the general swill out there. You know the masses of people who think people like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt are fonts of wisdom!

[Mantas 3]

 

I'm talking about the general swill out there. You know the masses of people who think people like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt are fonts of wisdom!

No, not really. Just because someone get a bit of a following doesn't automatically elevate them to Messiah or denigrate the listener to Swill.

I know a lot of people who listen to Alan Jones, they are the same people who watch Q & A, Media watch, Insight and other reputable media outlets.

Alan Jones is a F@@@wit. That's a given, but he adds balance to the spectrum and that's a sign of a healthy democracy, You just can't put a muzzle on a prominent media outlet/ or personality because you don't agree with what they are saying.

You've been in Japan too long

[Go Native 70]

Alan Jones adds balance? You've been in Australia too long...

[yamayamayama 2]

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Alan Jones adds balance? You've been in Australia too long...

Ahhhh...

Now there is a difference between presenting a balanced argument and 'adding balance'.

Ever been to or participated in a debate? Two extreme propositions with each side adding thier little weight of argument with the goal of rebalancing the scale, and perhaps tipping it in thier favour.

 

I suspect what really upsets you is that the political environment in Australia is centered with a skew to the right before any argument begins.

Both of our major political parties are right leaning even if one is considered 'left'.

 

[Go Native 70]

What upsets me MB is that a right wing nutter like Alan Jones is one of the most listened to radio presenters in the country. He is extremely popular even though what comes out of his mouth is what I think most of us would agree, toxic and vile. Andrew Bolt with his radical and racist views really should just have something like a blog. But no in Australia he gets his own column in some of the most widely read newspapers in the country and even a spot on a major TV network. What annoys me is that we now have an opposition leader who is championing the right of people like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt to spew out racial vilificaiton with absolute impunity! I guess he's now totally beholden to the people that have played a major role in making the government so unpopular. The point I'm making is that counter to what Mantas seems to imply, that these guys just add balance, I don't believe there is any balance anymore. Most of our media is owned by those who actively campaign for conservative politics and ideology. Who could you say is a counter balance to Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt? Who are the raving, radical lefties prominent in any media to counter the raving, radical righties? Some claim that the ABC leans to the left but really you couldn't have more evenhanded and objective media than the ABC. It's just people have become so used to the conservative propaganda from all the commericial media that something that is relatively unbiased and centred is now considered by many to be left leaning. Frankly I think there's some really dark days ahead for this country as we go headlong into a conservative/religious wonderland. We'll be just like the US soon.

[Mantas 3]

First let me state again that Alan Jones is a clown (a very entertaining clown, hence the large audience).

 

A simple question for you GN.

If you had the power to remove Alan Jones from media commentary. Would you?

[Go Native 70]

It's not a matter of removing him mantas. It's a matter of having the balance you talk about. You know that the vast bulk of our media is owned by those with strong conservative ideologies. The idea of balance is that you would have commentators from both ends of the political spectrum having a similar amount of airtime. We don't though. We have privately owned media companies whose major shareholders are in many cases our mining magnates. So is it any wonder the sceptic/denialist views about climate change and the fearmongering over the carbon price has been given such incredible prominence in our media? Or why the mining tax has had such critical review in our media? Is it even possible to have discussion in this country anymore without around 90% of the media pushing conservative ideology?

 

What really irks me about Australian's though mantas is that they have made people like Jones a very wealthy man because they tacitly support his rantings by listening to him. He isn't just popular because he is entertaining (I dispute there's any entertainment value at all) it's because he gives validity to the racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc, etc that boils under the surface of Australian society. He legitimises their hatred. Makes them feel vindicated. Bolt does the same. And with the mad monk looking at changing the racial villification laws he'll legitimise these things even more. As I say dark days ahead. Mark my words. America is a good example of where the far right will lead you. You want Australian society to be like that?

[Mantas 3]

I didn't think you'd answer that one.

 

I don't dispute most of what you say. It's just that I don't think people like Jones have as much influence over the broader population as you suggest. I just don't see them as pied poppers, dragging along the masses behind them.

The mad monk will fall on his sword. People are already seeing through all the fear mongering. Gillards popularity is rising. Give the people some credit.

 

 

 

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I didn't think you'd answer that one.

 

I don't dispute most of what you say. It's just that I don't think people like Jones have as much influence over the broader population as you suggest. I just don't see them as pied poppers, dragging along the masses behind them.

The mad monk will fall on his sword. People are already seeing through all the fear mongering. Gillards popularity is rising. Give the people some credit.

 

 

This.

In spades.

 

 

[Go Native 70]

I didn't think you'd answer that one.

 

I don't dispute most of what you say. It's just that I don't think people like Jones have as much influence over the broader population as you suggest. I just don't see them as pied poppers, dragging along the masses behind them.

The mad monk will fall on his sword. People are already seeing through all the fear mongering. Gillards popularity is rising. Give the people some credit.

 

I did answer it. Fairly implicit I'd think by saying that it's not about removing him. The implication is that I have no issue with him having a say and I would not attempt to stop him having his say. What I have issue with is that he is so popular. That people like him, Bolt, Sandilands, etc are so popular in Australian society. It says a lot about Australians. And supports my dislike of most of them.

And I give very little credit to the people with regards to Gillards rising popularity. I've noticed recently a little backlash against the monk and a bit more support of more moderate policy by the media. I think they've realised they've gone too far, they've been too successful in demonising the government. Even they realise it's not in their best interests to completely and utterly destroy the only political alternative in this country. I mean maybe I was away too long but it just doesn't seem right to me for there to be such animosity towards the current government. When you consider that our economy weathered the GFC better than just about any other developed nation, that we continue with low unemployment, low inflation, low interest rates, wages growth ahead of CPI, low soverign debt, etc, etc and yet this is one of the most unpopular governments ever? How does that happen? Doesn't it tell you that there's a disconnect between reality and what people believe? How can things be so good on paper, making our economy the envy of much of the rest of the world and yet so many people think that it's all doom and gloom and the government is useless and to blame for everything? Blame for what? That we have it so damned good??? I just don't get it. It doesn't make any sense. Unless you accept what I've been saying. That our media has incredible power over what the populace thinks and it has on the whole been strongly campaigning against the government.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Or alternately GN you have a large populace who can think for themselves and while the country is in a fairly strong position and weathered the world financial crisis, they actually acknowledge that very little of that is a result of the incumbent government, and has more to do with the fact that we were not so exposed by subprime mortgages and our biggest export was still being required despite downturns in luxury industry that affected so much of the rest of the world.

 

There is a group, and I am one of them, that believes the policies of the Gillard Government will do little to help, and quite a bit to hinder the Nations prosperity and independence from the crisis around us. I am not an Abbott fan, but I do believe the coalition, while imperfect, has more to offer (or perhaps I mean less...less interference, less regulation causing hardships to businesses already battling to survive...the same ones that employ people...who will then be UNemployed... etc).

 

I don't listen to or read Bolt, I dont read The West unless I am in the doctors surgery where it is preferable to Woman's Day and Kyle Sandilands is the annoying git that chatters rubbish in between songs when I am driving the kids to Water Polo training. Zero influence.

[surfarthur 22]

I would like to see Malcolm Turnbull back as leader of the Liberals.

 

Anyone else find it amusing that a conservative, catholic man is the leader of the "Liberal" party?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I would like to see Malcolm Turnbull back as leader of the Liberals.

 

Anyone else find it amusing that a conservative, catholic man is the leader of the "Liberal" party?

Moderately amusing. More annoying.

 

And if one of these goons doesn't have the cajones to let the homosexual folk marry each other if they want to, then I think my head is going to implode.

[JA2340 16]

I would like to see Malcolm Turnbull back as leader of the Liberals.

 

Anyone else find it amusing that a conservative, catholic man is the leader of the "Liberal" party?

I'd rather the Nationals got the cajones to actually JOIN the Liberals and stop pretending they are different! Nationals = Countryish Liberals!

More really, though, I'd like to see some TRUE independents, who will vote for what is right and to hell with the consequences for their re-election chances. Different to the majority of the current crop of Oz polliticians whose main aim is to get re-elected next time to protect their superannuation. Get voted back in 3 times in sequence and the super is, well, super!

[Mantas 3]

Doesn't it tell you that there's a disconnect between reality and what people believe? How can things be so good on paper, making our economy the envy of much of the rest of the world and yet so many people think that it's all doom and gloom and the government is useless and to blame for everything? Blame for what? That we have it so damned good??? I just don't get it. It doesn't make any sense. Unless you accept what I've been saying. That our media has incredible power over what the populace thinks and it has on the whole been strongly campaigning against the government.

Just who's got it so damm good? I've just had my worst year in business ever and so has just about everyone I speak to! Retail, manufacturing and construction industries have been decimated in my region. Finding work is hard, getting payment for it is even harder.

I have three friends that have lost their local jobs in the construction industry. Two of them now fly in and out of WA mining towns, the other one drives 8 hours away to a NSW mining town for work. I have another friend in retail that doesn't know how he'll make through the next year (he's been in business 16 years). There have been job losses a plenty in this region. Most people have been lucky enough to pick up jobs in the coal handling facilities industry. This IS the reality! To suggest that this is some kind of imagined scenario due to the magical, brainwashing powers of a handful of media Shock Jocks is laughable.

The two tiered economy is reeking havoc on Australian businesses. I've witnessed it first hand. Sure, some people are just out chasing the big dollars that mining attracts but most are doing it through lack of any real alternative and avoiding unemployment.

Australia's current economic situation has sweet FA to do with the Gillard governments policies and everything to do with the current resources boom (currently 20% of G.D.P.). If it wasn't for the resources boom we would be in exactly the situation as Europe and the U.S. So it's now either green dole queues or dirty black prosperity. Not hard for the media to portray mining magnates as super heros in this environment. How did we get here?

I find it ironic that the incumbent government's partnership with the Greens has seen Australia move about as far away from 'Green' as you can get. Your right about one thing though. Dark days are coming soon. They will be about as dark as the filthy black coal that we all now heavily rely on and will one day run out.

 

Maybe it's a different scenario down where you live, I don't know. All I can tell you is that's what happening here and I don't listen to Alan Jones, John Laws, Kyle Sandiland or Usain Bolt (or whatever his name is)

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Mantas, my heart skipped a beat reading that.

Yes yes yes yes.

 

Thankfully for us we are in a staples business, people gotta eat. Our business has eclipsed its last year once again.

But we are keenly aware that our story is not the norm.

And don't think it hasn't been hard for those whose businesses ARE doing well. Because of the mood and forecasts and other businesses doing crap the banks are not interested in even maintaining the status quo with booming industries - we have spent more than 12 month capitulating to thier every demand for debt reduction, selling down, reviews etc - all at signifigant costs to us, and for zero result. Bank still not prepared to increase debtor finance to make expansion easier despite better returns than we predicted (and WAY better than they predicted).

We know we are the lucky ones, and even the trials of the last year have improved our position making us less vulnerable to market fluctuations (not impervious, but a little more buffered). And we are thankful.

 

This situation has arisen because of a lack of market confidence.

The banks are paralyzed with fear.

And the incumbent government has done nothing to alleviate that fear.

Bitch about the right wingers as much as you like, but Jules had her shot...give them theirs...

If they fail to restore confidence, then fire away.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

The are people and markets doing well here too. But not many. And the general drag down of the economy is increasingly affecting more and more people. After all the companies doing well rely on their customers, who are more and more getting squeezed.

 

It really is hard to see a way out of it.

 

Glad to not be a politician! Who on earth would want to be one of them. Strange people.

[JA2340 16]

Australia's current economic situation has sweet FA to do with the Gillard governments policies and everything to do with the current resources boom (currently 20% of G.D.P.). If it wasn't for the resources boom we would be in exactly the situation as Europe and the U.S. So it's now either green dole queues or dirty black prosperity. Not hard for the media to portray mining magnates as super heros in this environment. How did we get here?

WooHoo!! Someone actually GETS it!

The rape of the land by the miners is doomed to run out. The coal they are mining is a very much finite resource. As a finite resource, it is guaranteed to run out (sorta by definition, actually!)

That the Australian people own the resources is undeniable. That the Australian people are entitled to fair return on these resources is just as much undeniable. That we are not yet getting full value is possibly a matter of debate!

We got here because past governments have been beholden to the mining lobbyists for electoral support (and paying for the election advertisements) and have not had the guts to tackle them until now.

[7-11 2]

Has this mining only just been... discovered.... or something?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Has this mining only just been... discovered.... or something?

LOL

[brit-gob 9]

Indeed but, what is with this mining "boom" anyway?

[surfarthur 22]

Many mine sites are currently expanding, new processing plants are being built, and most notably, oil and gas plants are being built. This has led to a large demand for skilled and semi-skilled labour. Many tradespeople are earning large amounts of money "up north" at the moment with all the projects that are currently under way. There is enough of a demand in WA for skilled labour that the mining companies are flying people from the cities on the east coast of Australia to the north of WA (3-4 hour flight to Perth, then another 1-2 hours to the regional airport, then bus for anywhere between half an hour to 6 or more hours to actually get to the mine site).

 

I think it is no longer considered a "boom" now, and in the next 5-8 years the majority of these projects will be completed. There will of course still be staff required for operation and maintenance, however this will be a fraction of what is required for the construction phase.

 

The issue that I think JA and others are trying to highlight is that it seems like none of the politicians are concerned with the future past the next election, which I suppose makes sense if you are a politician, you would want to do everything you can to get re-elected. There does not seem to be a coherent plan from any of the political parties at either a state or federal level as far as how to maintain a low unemployment rate when the resources sector slows down, which sooner or later it will. It is this critical lack of foresight that concerns me.