Wizz 11 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just something I'm considering for next season. I thing I remember one or two people saying that they consider places like Niseko (in Hokkaido obviously) to be almost as easy accessible as places like Hakuba (Nagano). Did I just imagine that, or is it so? Just the thought of flights always seems to add ++ time to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 For me, Haneda & Tokyo Station are about the same time from home; give shinkansen a 10-minute advantage on pre-boarding and definitely comfort points. If you live out near Hachioji, for example, travel to Hakuba has an obvious advantage; same if you live near Omiya. It's about 90 minutes to Chitose or Nagano, and give Nagano a 30-minute advantage on bus waiting time (yes, it can be less, but average). Then it's one hour to Hakuba vs 2.5 to Niseko, so you wind up with roughly a 2-hour advantage in time for Hakuba. Where it gets tricky is then weighing that vs snow conditions. For myself, Hokkaido wins hands-down January to mid-February because of the reliability of powder. It's pretty much a toss-up late-Feb to mid-March, and Nagano wins on altitude after mid-March. One more factor is price: it's often cheaper to take package tours to Hokkaido than to book something in Nagano (but you have to commit at least 10 days in advance). Link to post Share on other sites
Zer0star 0 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 and another is the weather. flights can occasionally get cancelled due to storms up north. but it's still gotta be worth it i think. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 That does happen; a friend of mine got skunked by a storm once, and I arrived too late to get to Niseko that evening and had to stay overnite at a Chitose hotel. But a bad storm in Nagano could close roads, so I'd say that's pretty close to a wash. It's really hard to go wrong heading to Hokkaido or Nagano if you can avoid holiday weekends. Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I guess looking much further on a map has a lot to do with the perception as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 With the JR deals from Tokyo station, I find that its cheaper ( and personally I reckon quicker) to go to Niigata and Nagano resorts than it is to go up to Hokkaido. Obviously the Niigata area is quickest.......Yuzawa resorts are within a 2hr shink and bus journey from Tokyo, some of them are less. Nagano does have a crappy long shuttle bus ride from Tokyo to snow, but I can be on the snow for 10am. I don't think I could do that for Niseko. For me the big thing is cost and availability. To get one of the cheap flights, you often have to book months in advance, but I can go down to JR View Plaza the day before I want to go and get my Shink+lift ticket package and it costs the same for that day whether I'd bought it 3 months prior Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Fair enough, TB, but I don't think too many people head up to Hokkaido on day-trips Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 ....which kind of says a lot doesn't it.... Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 For the typical international traveller, who arrives at Narita and has to transfer to Haneda, it's going to be a lot further to get to Hokkaido than Nagano. It's either Narita - Haneda - Chitose - Niseko (or for lucky people, Narita - Chitose - Niseko) or Narita - Tokyo - Nagano - Hakuba. It also really depends on the timing for efficient transfers. For those living around Tokyo, Nagano is obviously a lot closer. If you aren't using public transportation (getting picked up or renting a car) Hakuba is a lot closer in terms of total travel time. Link to post Share on other sites
surfarthur 22 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 It just seems like so much less hassle to sit on a train for a few hours, than to go through the hassle of air travel, security checks, cramped seating etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think it depends on 1] what you're looking for, and 2] how many days. For a day trip, obviously jump on the Joetsu shinkansen to Yuzawa areas. For two days, I'd opt for Nagano, and sometimes for three. Longer than that, I'm off to Hokkaido in Jan-Feb, because I mainly want to ski lift-served powder and it's just much more reliable up there. If someone wants to do a four or five-day back country tour in March or April, Hakuba certainly sounds like a winner. Yes, I've skied knee-deep light powder in Yuzawa (at Yuzawa Park, no less), but I wouldn't expect it there. On any given four days in Jan-Feb, I'd certainly expect to get at least one and probably more days with those conditions. If you mainly ski groomers or moguls, I don't see any advantage to Hokkaido at all. Gala is your friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Fair enough, TB, but I don't think too many people head up to Hokkaido on day-trips I wasn't talking about day trips. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 If you're comparing prices, once you get past three days Hokkaido isn't more expensive and you get a lot more for the cost. Joestsu areas are obviously more cost-efficient for day trips, but can't compete with Nagano for multi-day outings. And Nagano is as or more expensive than Hokkaido for four-day visits (at which point the difference in travel time has become relatively invisible). I'm not demeaning Joestsu or Nagano, and I'm sure GN would vouch that I'm not a Niseko homer -- in fact and for the record, I say Nozawa Onsen is the best lift-served skiing terrain in Japan. I'm just pointing out that the difference in travel time isn't big enough to be a consideration if you're going for more than a day or two. Certainly neither is the cost, and nowhere else in Japan matches Hokkaido's reliability for snow. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 IMO the minimum for me to head to Hokkaido would be a 5 day trip. Any less and I'd feel its a waste of my travel time. Its much more convenient for me to jump on a late shink, I could take a 4-day trip up to Yuzawa for instance and ride for 3 days. Arrive late night shink(day 1), stay over and ride the next day(day 2), stay over and ride (Day 3), stay over and ride again and then get the shink back to Tokyo(day 4). Of course the 1 time I went to Niseko I totally loved it and if it was a tad easier and cheaper to get there then I would go more often, but for me its not. Although that said I rarely do overnight trips and when I do have the opportunity to do a few days in a row trip, its usually New Year and its uber high season prices for Niseko. This is probably a big reason why I feel that from Tokyo, its easier and cheaper to hit Niigata or Nagano resorts Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Fair enough that if you can only do a four-day+ trip at the busiest times, it can get very expensive going up to Hokkaido. But generally if you avoid New Year and the holiday weekends you can get a package deal out of tokyo at pretty much what it will cost to go to any of the major Nagano resorts, or less. And if you can pick your spots it can be very inexpensive. Link to post Share on other sites
igloo 3 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Pity it's flat. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Not for me, I'm one of the ungnarly Link to post Share on other sites
onsen tamago 0 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 People just relate airports with hassle, myself included. It's difficult to shake that image. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Won't argue with that, although domestic flights in Japan keep it to a minimum. I've gotten to the point that I dread having to change planes on trips to the U.S. because it will require an extra trip through security. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 That bad is it in the US, worse than the annoyances of UK stuff? Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Haven't been through security in UK airports, so can't say. But hard to believe it could be any worse than US, especially at the big airports. Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I imagine lots of people coming in from overseas will see it all differently than those in Tokyo, say. They are already in an airport and just connecting to somewhere else is perhaps even less hassle than changing to a station. Link to post Share on other sites
best skier in hakuba 5 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Good point as well. How many people coming over from Aus stop off and take in a bit of Tokyo? Link to post Share on other sites
box of frogs 0 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Not related to travel really but the places on Honshu seem to appeal to me more than Hokkaido. I like them there big mountains. Link to post Share on other sites
Error404 0 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Haven't been through security in UK airports, so can't say. But hard to believe it could be any worse than US, especially at the big airports. Something like this: - take off coat - take off belt - put coins in plastic container - maybe take off shoes - take computer out of bag to go through machine - walk through a machine that usually beeps and you need to go back, while your belongings are out of sight somewhere else - get annoyed Link to post Share on other sites
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