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I got roughed up big time...by the mountain HELP


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Went to Omote Manza yesterday, it`s no Appi but the place is definitely bigger than the map suggests. Had a pretty good time overall...til my very last run. To make a long story short, I really banged up the inside ligament on my right knee. Actually, it was already slightly injured from the run-in I had with that wicked kicker at Niseko Annupri about a month ago and the knee had been feeling a bit tender since then. From the outside my knee doesn`t look swollen but I can`t kick out my right leg and make it completely straight. It hurts like a mother when I attempt to bend the knee for just a few degrees! \:\( I feel pain even just rolling around on my bed(and any other insignificant daily body movement that we take for granted). I`ve already had a LONG soak at Kusatsu hot spring after the incident and been icing the knee down repeatedly since last night. I know it`s only the day after but this is probably the worst injury I`ve ever had since I started boarding and I`m getting really worried(not to mention the fact I`ve already booked a stay-over trip to Tohoku later this week). Damn it, it`s only the middle of Feb! mad.gif Has anyone ever had similar injury? Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to treat it? I don`t think the ligament is torn, probably just hyper-extended and very bruised. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Ride safe everybody

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RICE, RICE BABY! R est, I ce, something else and something else (I don't remember how that goes exactly). Sorry to hear about the knee man. I myself have been skiing with a torn meniscus in my right knee all season. It's held me to going only once a week. Usually the pain goes away after giving it a week to rest, but it does hurt fairly severly about mid-way through a ski day.

 

If you want to continue boarding/skiing, I'd suggest getting a brace. It may not physically help much, but it will keep your ligaments warm and give you some added mental confidence.

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Snobo, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I really think what you are describing is exactly what Plucky says he has...a torn meniscus. The knee ligaments don't stretch much, so it's unlikely to be "just" over stretched. It's now probably just a question of how much of it you have torn. The bummer is that they don't heal. Unlike torn muscles which are well feed with blood and the mending ingredients they carry, ligaments have a very low supply of it. You either have to operate, in which you have a good chance of a full recovery, or just live with it and you will have a weak knee and probably some pain for the rest of your life. I'm not trying to scare you and I hope I'm wrong. I just want to warn you how serious I think this is.

Best of luck.

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R - rest

I - ice

C - compression

E - elevation

 

a good starting point...but...

 

as a general rule, dont apply ice directly to skin, wrap it in a towel. you should only apply ice to reduce swelling immediatley after the injury.

 

if youve had the injury for a few days you should switch to heat. heat will soothe damaged muscles and create blood circulation.

 

it would be best to see a physician or sport doctor, they will be able to let you know of excercises to do during the healing process.

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Hey, man, sorry to hear you tweaked your knee, that's no fun. My advice is to baby it because when you hit 50 or so, you will be glad you did. You sound like you already know about knees, but here's my two cents' worth...

 

If you really must continue your on-snow activities this season, then how about at least putting a supportive brace on the knee and also try to strengthen the leg muscles as much as you can to help protect the joint from any further damage?

 

Frankly speaking, you should maybe end your season now (!!!) to rest and see what happens, or quickly have that knee examined by an orthopedic doc. The doc will manipulate the joint to find out what does and does not hurt, and depending on the result, may recommend an MRI scan to get a clear pic of what is going on inside it (x-rays show mostly bone, and do not show much soft tissue such as cartilage and ligaments).

 

You could have a bruised or sprained joint, in which case you should rest it then slowly rehab to make sure the supporting muscles stay strong.

 

You may have torn cartilage (what posters above refer to as "meniscus"). In the case of a minor tear, you may choose to do nothing as it will not significantly affect your life...sometimes waiting a year to see how it goes is a good idea. Why have unnecessary surgery?

 

If the knee continues to be a problem or if the tear is large/obtrusive, then you'll probably need arthroscopic surgery (where they insert small needle-like tubes in your knee and snip out the hangnail-like tear). Recovery time is quick (1-2 weeks to get walking again) and you should be 100% again in a couple months, provided that you do your rehab RELIGIOUSLY.

 

You may have a stretched ligament (as you mentioned), in which case a doc would prescribe rest and limited motion for 6 weeks or so. The ligament will tighten itself back up. It will absolutely NOT heal while you continue boarding and jumping etc...and the longer you wait to rest it for the several weeks required, the less likely it is to tighten up properly when you eventually do. Also, using the knee when one of the ligaments is hyperextended causes other damage due to mechanical instability...try loosening the lug nuts on a car wheel, then driving around. Same idea here with knees.

 

You may have a partial or complete ligament tear, but that seems very unlikely because you would notice more mechanical instability in the joint and probably have much more swelling and pain. Arthroscopic surgery could again be used to fix a ligament tear, though the recovery time is months, not weeks...again, doing rehab to restore full range-of-motion and muscle strength is crucial.

 

Seems like most pro boarders and skiers have blown one or more knee ligaments, then rehabbed back into shape. Let's wait 40 years to see how all these knees fare into retirement age. Not too well I would think.

 

I saw a chick run the slopestyle at the X Games last week with a completely blown ACL. The announcers said she'd been staying off the snow as much as possible because she wanted to compete in the X Games even with the injury...she did a fine run and landed a huge jump, finished the course then collapsed and had to be helped off. So much for that knee. I hope it was worth it.

 

If you want to play doctor, check out this link for some hints on self-diagnosis of knee injuries: Heal, Brother!!

 

What kind of insurance do you have?

 

Are you in Tokyo?

 

If so, I can recommend a great orthopedic doc not far from Shinjuku. She is an avid skier and speaks more than enough English to get by. Though a surgeon by trade, she would never do an unnecessary surgery and emphasizes rehab, patience and care. I saw her for a severely sprained elbow in '97, and again for a torn cartilage (meniscus) in my knee in '01.

 

I heard the "pop" and got the tear while trying to teach Mogski how to do moguls on a snowboard. For a couple months I had symptoms much like yours: sometimes the leg would lock painfully or not extend or bend all they way...there was constant clicking, locking and popping...I was sure I needed surgery to fix the problem, I was a long way from home, and the sun appeared dark in my eyes.

 

However, I talked to some acquaintances who'd blown out an ACL (a knee ligament sometimes torn by skiers who fall backwards over their ski tails, or by boarders who land hard on the flats) and/or had their knee smashed playing soccer. Both they and the Net suggested that 6 months is considered "not much time at all" in the life of a knee, so I waited...

 

I did some surfing over the summer that initially bothered the knee by forcing a different and extended range-of-motion, but must have built flex muscle tone. After a few weeks the knee felt better than ever. It occasionally catches, twinges or aches, but that I can live with. I certainly don't need any surgery right now. Arthro surgery is no big deal and I can always have it later on if I need to.

 

I had it once in college for a different problem, and damn did I get some great painkillers!

 

Anyone here ever tried Percodan?

 

\:D

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..never tried Percodan but badmigraine great analysis and post. Everyone else as well. SnoboYaro, sorry to hear about your knee. I did something to my left knee, it seems, to either the ACL or medial catilage. It was tender for awhile, but the last time I went on the slopes I tried a brace, and had no ski-associated pain the whole day (~3 weeks ago). It sounds like you do need to go get the knee checked out though. if you do go to Tohoku, I would suggest trying a brace, but really, you need to take it easy there on the knee there.

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..never tried Percodan but badmigraine great analysis and post. Everyone else as well. SnoboYaro, sorry to hear about your knee. I did something to my left knee, it seems, to either the ACL or medial catilage. It was tender for awhile, but the last time I went on the slopes I tried a brace, and had no ski-associated pain the whole day (~3 weeks ago). It sounds like you do need to go get the knee checked out though. if you do go to Tohoku, I would suggest trying a brace, but really, you need to take it easy there on the knee there.

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Percodan eh? I'll have to remember to ask for some of that. I used to be a big believer in gaman, but pain truly is a teacher and I've leaned my lesson.

 

BTW, anybody else believe in 'medical marijuana'? I sure don't...

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I am with with badmigraine on this one Snobo, there is always next season, dont be a fool, I hurt both my knees on a six day trip in France, I should have packed it in earlier than day 6 but being all the way in France I was pigheaded and stuck it out. Came back to Japan and had MRI's done on both knees 40000yen and luckily there was only inflammation, but I packed the season in and rested up no running, only swimming and mountain biking over summer and rehab leg strenghtening at the gym while I was doing heavy upper body weights,I was so tempted to hit some big squats but withstrained. My knees will never be 100% but I treat them with lots of respect now, I wear a neoprene brace all the time to support the left knee while I am riding,

Knees ended and or plagued the careers of many skiers and sportsmen. You only got one set and once they are gone thats it no more,

 

Say sayonara to this season mate and remember

Denial is not a River in Egypt.

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yo Snobo, that sounds exactly like the injury i sustained in niseko in jan. the aftermath is also the same. the more i think about it, the more i think i hyper extended it too. i did it on jan.2nd, didn`t ride on the third, but rode everyday after til the 12th. riding was restricted and not so comfortable, but i could still get out there. i return to the scene of the accident this sat, about six weeks after initial injury. i went for a light jog/walk last night and pulled up sore after. ice is the key!

 

so you`re off again this weekend hey? might be too soon, but then only you know your body, listen to it and let that be the key.

an osteopath told me to wrap the knee in a cuppla cabbage leaves. apparently, cabbages contain a certain something that draws toxins out through the pores. thus, reducing the swelling and quickening recovery. i tried it and the next day the leaves were soaking.

 

whatever ya decide, good luck, and you`re no orphan!

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SnoboYaro - a lot of good advice on here for you. If in fact you have torn your meniscus, you technically are okay to ski or board. This is the second time I've done it to my right knee. The first time was 3 years ago and I opted for surgery. I was off crutches in 2 days and back surfing (it was Summer) in 3 weeks. I decided against surgery this time around simply because skiing would be too hard in a recovery mode and I didn't want to miss any of the season. The doctors told me I really couldn't injure it any worse and if I could take the pain I was okay to ski (pretty much what badmigraine said).

 

If it is a ligament injury, you probably should end your season. Get it checked out, let it rest and go from there. It looks like you have enough to read on here from other posters. Take it easy and get better soon. And try to score some Percodan if you can! Just don't try to board on it!

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Ocean11:
BTW, anybody else believe in 'medical marijuana'? I sure don't...
My grandma has cancer has was put on pot for a while. Not any more though as she made a full recovery. Doubt it had anything to do with the weed though! But heck, it probably didn't hurt.

Personally i think it does have some advantages for the terminally ill. And even for those for aren't.
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I believe marijuana should be legalized and taxed just like ciggies and booze.

 

As for trying to rehab the image of marijuana by touting its medical benefits and the utility of hemp, forget it. That will never work. Nobody wants to hear about that. Marijuana is mostly a pleasure drug and should be accepted as such.

 

As for the medical utility of marijuana, I know it works for some things.

 

When my mother was having extensive chemotherapy, she was constantly nauseous/throwing up, and foods took on strange tastes (e.g., sweet melons were horribly sour and salty etc.). She was wasting away and the docs were alarmed.

 

She tried an array of anti-nausea and similar drugs but not only did they fail to work, but they also had other unpleasant side effects. Mom didn't need that crap, she was hurting so bad as it was.

 

A neighbor brought over some marijauna, mom smoked a small bowl or two, then sat up in bed and ate a small meal and felt fine and happy for hours. No puking. No nausea. Food tasted much better. The correct medical term for this is "The Munchies".

 

It continued to work well for her during her chemo.

 

I know a couple other people who have found it is the best remedy for this or that medical problem.

 

I am sure some people use the "medicinal purposes" argument merely to enjoy the recreational effects of pot.

 

Too bad they have to stoop to this gambit thanks to the ignorant short-sightedness of a schoolmarmishly prejediced legal system that demonizes this particular substance while allowing other equally "harmful" substances to flood the market with ads and products.

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I accept the 'appetite enhancing' side of pot may be of value, but I can't believe it when people tout it as a painkiller too. It doesn't work.

 

But by all means legalize it, and let people decide for themselves if it has any medicinal value.

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ocean, it works as a pain killer- believe it!

last year when i broke a cuppla ribs, i`d have a little choof at night and declare myself ready to board tha next day. the next day would come but the effects of the mull had worn off. therefore, no riding.

if only i could bring myself to having a puff and then go riding. but alas, i just couldn`t do it.

 

mmmmmm...

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Pot gives me a crushing headache and makes me feel brain-damaged, totally introverted and unhappy. I hate the stuff!

 

Many years ago, it used to make me laugh and feel good. But as I got older the effect gradually became 100% awful. Now I would never even do one puff.

 

Actually, this is the typical pattern for me for almost every recreational drug. It starts out amazingly fun, but over time my body seems to turn it into unpleasantness.

 

Right now, I am feeling that way about BOOZE. One beer and I just want to be alone or take a nap. More than one, and I can feel the hangover begin even as I am drinking it...

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Yo snobo, not good matey. Sounds like what I managed to do to myself ahhh I had a horrible time with my knee so have a bit to add.

 

If youre knee is locking, giving way, and popping it sounds like cartliage. You will be ok till the end of the season, it will just hurt a bit and land you on your face in embarassing places.

 

The stiffness and cant bend it that you talk about sound like swelling too. Thnink about it, theres extra fluid in your knee that when its extended is fine but when you bend it has no where to go. I can almost guarantee that if you get the swelling down youll have a lot more movement. A stomach bug works well as does keeping the damn thing above your heart (hope youve got a playstation ;\) )

 

However if its your ligament GET OFF IT NOW. As much as it sucks dont go boarding and dont do any other activities on it. Id go to a Dr, pref a sports dr and get it sussed out once and for all and if youre not satisfied then get a 2nd, 3rd opinion till you are.

 

I snapped my acl and tore lots of cartliage. I ended up having 2 arthroscopies (mini camera in the knee) and limped out of hospital both times to be back at work in a week or so. Nothing much to it and the scars just a few white dots. But the ACL reconstruction was a monster and screws your life for a while. I had to have 2 weeks of sitting doing NOTHING (I havent played playstation since) 1 month of heel to arse brace and 6 weeks of crutches. 6 months of rehab (thank god my physio was hot hot hot \:D ) and 1 hr excercises a day, physio every other day and walking up and down the pool non physio daysblah blah blah. You get the idea? lots of time, engery and I never knew that amount of pain existed till I came out of the anesthetic (codene mmmmmmm). And the scar is fine now but was paraniod for a year or so

 

Really you dont want that, esp in Japan. Get it sorted before you go boarding and get some scans etc done (the dr at the ski field I did it at in Japan said it was just a sprain and gave me a stick on menthol thing - ha!) and research and talk to people back home so you know what should be happening - because Ive heard some horror stories in Japan..

 

Im good now. I wear a robocop brace and dont take huge jumps but would never have believed Id be doing the things I am now. Just get it sorted, its worth it.

 

damn this post is long. can you tell I dont want to work? Odaiji ni

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First of all, I`d like to thank all of you for your informative(esp the part about Percodan, j/k)and helpful input. I really appreciate it! \:\) I`m alway aware of my fragile knees(really hurt them 3 winters ago from unrelated activity)so I always wear knee braces(soft type)when I board or play baseball. I`m pretty sure the injury would`ve been greater if those braces weren`t on when I ate it last Sun. I`ve been taking it easy the last few days and the knee does feel somewhat better. It`s still quite tender but I can get more movement out of it and I can even ride a bicycle now. Yes, I`m still going up to Akita first thing tomorrow cuz it was planned and it`s already been paid for. Don`t worry...I won`t be doing anything stupid(just don`t show me where the board park is :p )and I`ll take it very easy on the slopes. But as far as me giving up the rest of this season I think not. There are many reasons for my stubborn-ness but the bottom line is it`d probably take a broke leg for me to stop boarding. I`m hoping for the best but in case things get ugly I will seek professional help(don`t have insurance, though). So does this mean I can`t participate in Toyota Big Air with Shawn White this weekend? ;\) P.S. is it bad to continue icing my knee at this point? should I switch to shippu from here on out?

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Yaro, two things:

 

First, what is stopping you from getting the knee sussed out? At least find out what you are dealing with.

 

Second (and this is just me), I'd rather have a broken leg than a blown ACL.

 

NOTE: I don't think you have a blown ACL, I am just illustrating what I feel is the lesser of two evils--a broken bone, which heals 100% and within about 6 weeks, vs. ligament damage, which requires surgery and extensive rehab and is rarely 100%...

 

Does ya haves medical insurance? Hie the to a medical man or hottie medical woman...

 

Zwelgen you're right on with the hottie rehab component. Motivation!

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badmigraine - can you post the info about the doc in shinjuku please?

 

 Quote:
I believe marijuana should be legalized and taxed just like ciggies and booze
Isn't it expensive enough already? \:D

 

Good luck snobo - sounds like you'll pull through.

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If you really think your hurt then you already know your answer. Go to the doctor and get it sorted. As for pot us Canadians dont really care most ofthe time. Booze kills just as many brain cells and cigs give you cancer. Legalize it or not, it makes no difference to us just, to the tax man.

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