Do You Wear A Helmet? - If Not, Why Not?

[JA2340 16]

since you seem insistent that the person downhill has some kind of responsibiliy to the person uphill, its not a massive leap of the imagination to work out the circumstances... amirite?

You mention "resort rules" as if they were standard - in my experience, they are a moveable feast, especially with respect to out of bounds.

However, the onus is on a slider starting off, or restarting, to ensure that they do not impede or cause a collision with someone coming from above them. Have you not heard of that? So, in that case they DO have a "responsibiliy to the person uphill" as you put it.

 

It ain't about "right of way" so much as responsibility - and the uphill slider has responsibility to overtake safely. End of!

Downhill slider has a responsibility to enter/restart without danger to incoming from above, end of!

 

Doesn't take 1000 words to say that!

[Go Native 70]

One of the big problems of course is that the favourite part of a slope for the noobs to take a fall is just below where it rolls over into a steeper section and neither they nor those coming from above can see each other.

[pie-eater 207]

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I agree. You don't need an excuse.

And unlike if you don't carry a beacon/shovel and probe in real backcountry with me, I will still ride with people with unclad heads.

One of my own has ditched the lid in favour of the fashion accessories.

I don't care if you dont use one, but I do enjoy hearing about the times that a helmet has been useful for those that choose to wear one.

If people who don't like to use helmets then get on and go hard on the poster about how useless and crap helmets are, they stop posting. And I want to hear the stories. By all means, let us know you don't agree with using a helmet for you - but suggesting it is more likely to result in accidents, that peripheral vision is impaired etc is just being provocative.

 

Surf Arthur, I used to wear a vey bright purple and green jacket, but now tend to use my black one more often (hot pink inside), I may have been a n00b magnet

 

GN, I can't recall if the first guy was wearing a helmet - I was not quite with it until a good few hours after I hit my own head (wearing a helmet, in that accident). Maybe, maybe not. He was however drunk and belligerent.

The female, no, she was not wearing a helmet.

 

 

[snowdude 44]

I don't wear a helmet although have thought about wearing one especially as I used race fast motorbikes and have taken a spill once and without he helmet I probably would not uave been here today.

Having said that I have yet to buy one more due to can't be bothered than anything else. So far I have been lucky and not had a skiing crash. But we never know.

I think wearing a helmet certainly does offer a degree of protection for sure and whether to wear one or not is a personal choice.

I need to buy new gear for my daughter tomorrow so if I find a helmet I like I ay buy one.

As for right of way or who is right or wrong it is generally the rule that the person above must ensure that they don't crash into the person below them.

Having said we should all be responsible ski within our abilities and look out for each other regardless of were on the mountain we are.

 

 

[Slippery Jim 65]

Can't be bothered reading it, Ippy. Just keep in mind I have sharp pointed sticks in hand

Merry Christmas to All & a Happy New Year

[ippy 66]

JA, come on man, you know we were talking specifically of a situation where two people were moving and the snowboarder "crashes into" the skier. And also the 1000 words it took to say it was explaining what actually happened in said scenario (viz a viz the implied and unrealistic version). The other 60-70% was explaining why snowboarders arent just obliviously riding, but continually modifying their line for people both down the hill and also up the hill thanks to the fact that looking uphill is effortless. This was part of an ongoing discussion about snowboarders being oblivious and not about right of way. So it is a little harsh to summarise it as 1000 words of waffle on right of way/responsibility. Its more like 1000 words of waffle on rights of way/responsibilities/snowboarding mechanics/and helping skiers when passing a snowboarder by correctly reading their line.

[Ajax 0]

Never worn a helmet but probably would if they weren't so bloody awkward to pack in the kit. Don't fancy wearing it onto the plane. My one and only rule to skiing is "don't fall" , too hard to get back up.

[teikiatsulover 6]

I always wear a helmet. Mainly because when I am riding the gondola I can put my goggles up on my helmet and they don't fog up. I have always liked that aspect about helmets. Also, I find it to be warmer than just a beanie, but that is just me. Probably the last reason why I wear a helmet is because you can punch through tree branches easier with it than without - I would much rather have my helmet smacked by the branch, which has happened more times than I could ever count, than my head.

 

I think the whole argument about them being safer is a bit flawed. Look at most injuries people get when skiing, they really don't have much to do with your head, right? Broken legs/arms/wrists are much more prevalent than cracking your head open. That's not to say that people to smack their heads hard because some do, but I honestly think are more injuries from other body parts than your head.

[pdoull 2]

I wear a helmet too. It has saved my melon on a cat track in oz - of all things. They can be deadly in spring conditions due to melt, freeze, melt (shade / sun) and tracking from boards and not paying attention on my part. Caught an edge at speed and back slapped the ice - woke up 5 mins later seeing stars. No claret and live to board another day - thanks helmet.

I also agree with teikiatsulover as in my case when I wear a beanies (especially in Japan - snowie conditions) my goggles constantly fog up but the problem is greatly reduced when I wear my helmet. I think it allows more air flow via the top of my goggles

[sand 17]

Gives me a place to mount GoPro, but seriously mostly for same reason as takiatsulover. had my helmet wip several times by small branches, much prefer that than my head for sure.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

I think the whole argument about them being safer is a bit flawed. Look at most injuries people get when skiing, they really don't have much to do with your head, right? Broken legs/arms/wrists are much more prevalent than cracking your head open. That's not to say that people to smack their heads hard because some do, but I honestly think are more injuries from other body parts than your head.

 

I don't think the safety argument is about frequency, it is about severity of consequences. I've never heard of a fatal broken wrist before.

[teikiatsulover 6]

Metabo, I have never heard of anybody dying from a head injury, nor becoming a vegetable from only smacking their head skiing on the gelende or off piste. I am sure it has happened, but have never heard of it. Friends have torn ACLs, broken wrists/arms/ribs, The only major head injuries that I have heard of are people hitting trees when taken down by an avie, and then even helmets dont often prevent head injuries because of the severity of the situation. I think that it would be silly to take all things into consideration and force people to wear helmets when skiing because they might smack their head, when JHS students and older don't have to on their bikes when I have seen a few bike accidents and the kids/adults being taken away by ambulance. I just think the argument is flawed is all.

[ippy 66]

Natasha Richardson? Just the most high profile head injury by the way.

[Thundercat 60]

Yeah, she died on piste after a totally innocuous fall. I once slipped from a standing position at the bottom of Goryu and knocked myself out completely and left a pretty nasty looking red stain in the snow from the cut on my head. All I hit it on was the hard pack in front of the plaza.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Natasha Richardson? Just the most high profile head injury by the way.

Was what I was going to say!

 

Yeah, she died on piste after a totally innocuous fall. I once slipped from a standing position at the bottom of Goryu and knocked myself out completely and left a pretty nasty looking red stain in the snow from the cut on my head. All I hit it on was the hard pack in front of the plaza.

yeah, simple accident, terrible outcome.

 

My youngest did an epic scorpion on hard packed and icy pistes at night in Thredbo when he was about 7. Being a flexible little dude his board flipped over and fairly whacked him across the back of the helmet. He had to call it for the night as he was seeing stars and his head was pounding. The helmet had a deep fissure across the back where the edge embedded. I can only imagine the claret red spill if he had not been wearing a helmet....

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Metabo, I have never heard of anybody dying from a head injury, nor becoming a vegetable from only smacking their head skiing on the gelende or off piste.

 

I have. Besides Natasha Richardson, Sonny Bono and Michael Kennedy, when I was growing up (before anyone even thought to use helmets when skiing), there was always someone who died every year on the local slopes from a head injury, including an elementary school kid who smashed his head open on a lift tower.

 

I've had a couple of close calls due to not wearing a helmet, both at work and while skiing, including one trip to the hospital and one time I didn't go but probably should have, so I'm convinced a helmet makes sense for me. I'm just not naturally lucky enough not to need one. And any kids who ski with me have to wear helmets.

 

I don't care what adults do, and I don't care what ski resorts in Australia do, so don't conflate my opinion with any "nanny state" concerns.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I thought Sonny Bono and Michael Kennedy 'hit trees'?

Not sure the helmet would have made much difference.

 

The Avie story I linked to in the Niseko BC thread had both victims as having head injuries that would likely cause death, buy they also had numerous other injuries that could have been the cause of death.m

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Tell that to ppl who have lived thru motorbike accidents

 

Kennedy guy

[ippy 66]

Just a quick browse on the web gives you a few reports on helmets.

 

Heres some interesting facts from one of them (alas 2009 before helmets became pure steeze):

 

First one is usage: theres a clear downward trend of non helmet use in age groups. 18-29 have 40.4% have never used a helmet, which drops to 33.3% in the 30-39 group, dropping again to 25% in the 40-49 group and then 15.4% in the 50-59. The outlier: oyajis 60+ it pops back up to 25%.

Helmet use also increases with ability: 26% of beginners use one, 38% of (i assume self declared) intermediates use one and 55% of (self declared) advanced riders use one.

 

Injury locations:

 

Lower limb and hip: 32%

Abdominal and neck: 6%

Shoulders/arms/hand: 39%

Back: 6%

Head: 9%

Face: 5%

Other: 3% Other? prolapse?

 

Injury Types:

 

Sprain/strain/bruising: 41%

Fractures: 29%

Lacerations: 6%

Dislocations: 7%

Concussion 8%

Cardiac and stroke: 0%

Other: 9%

 

Cause of Injury:

 

Fall - lost control: 29%

Fall - jumping: 13%

Fall - caught an edge: 24%

Other: 29%

Collision with other skiers: 5%

 

25% of the total are collisions. Part of that is the 9% with other skiers, the rest is objects (yikes!), machinery and trees... but may include snowboarders, because honestly it does seem strange they specified skiers here, but often throughout this mini summary they do specify both when they need to specify both. Skier isnt used as a catch all at any other point.

 

Boarders suffer more accidents than skiers (53% vs 41%)

55% of injuries suffered by under 19s

75% of injuries occur on marked runs. 11% in terrain parks. 4% with lifts. That leaves 10% for out of bounds.

66% of all injuries are falls while the skier or boarder is the only one involved.

 

As for helmets.

 

They can only protect you in low speed impacts.

 

"Impacts at a speed of greater than approximately 20kph are likely to result in severe injury regardless of whether a helmet is being worn."

 

So theres some fun data on it all.

[surfarthur 22]

I was doing some reading yesterday, and it would appear that most ski/snowboard fatalities actually occur on groomed blue "cruiser" runs, usually from hitting a tree on the side of the piste!

[vonone 0]

I personally don't wear a helmet. Mainly because the times I have tried them they feel unnatural and clout the perception of my surroundings. That being said, I have definitely had a few close calls off piste and am open to wearing a helmet if I can find one which isn't too restricting.

[surfarthur 22]

During the past 15 years, there has been an average of 34 deaths per year among skiers and snowboarders. During 1999-2000 season, 30 fatalities occurred out of the 52.2 million skier/snowboarder days reported. Twenty-three of the fatalities were skiers (19 male, 4 female) and seven were snowboarders (6 male, 1 female). This equates to a fatality rate of 0.57 per million skier/snowboarder visits or 2.88 deaths per million on-slope participants. Sixty percent of all fatal injuries in skiing involve head injuries. The most common cause of fatal injury is classified as "skier lost control, hit tree." Most fatalities in skiers occur in the same population that exhibits "high-risk behavior." Victims are predominantly male (85%), in their late teens to early 20s (70%), possess better than average experience, go at a high rate of speed at the margin of an intermediate trail. This is the same group who sustain 74% of the fatal car crashes and 85% of all fatal industrial accidents.

 

 

A little out of date, but interesting all the same.

http://www.wms.org/news/snowboard.asp

[CnnmnSchnpps 0]

FWIW

 

- I always wear a helmet

- It has saved my mellon a number of times and has the scars to prove it - mostly while doing inadvertent cartwheels in tight trees. I'm happy the scars are on my helmet and not on my head

[HelperElfMissy 42]

FWIW

 

- I always wear a helmet

- It has saved my mellon a number of times and has the scars to prove it - mostly while doing inadvertent cartwheels in tight trees. I'm happy the scars are on my helmet and not on my head

Might be time to invest in a shiny new one!

The structural integrity is compromised after damage - even slight damage.