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Do You Wear a Helmet For Snowsports?  

89 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you wear a helmet for snowsports?

    • Yes always
      53
    • Yes sometimes
      13
    • No
      23
  2. 2. Do you thnk they should be compulsory?

    • Yes
      10
    • Yes but only for school groups
      16
    • No
      63


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To be honest, i think some of you are overplaying the disruption to a) your field of vision, and the lack of ambient sound by wearing a helmet. Lets forget that i wrote "non safety reasons whatsoeve

Wore my helmet yesterday and thankfully glad I did.   Was coming down the main slope on the east slope of joestu kokusai and a skiier came across and clattered in to me and I took a hefty tumble, hi

No one would or could argue that wearing a helmet is not a somewhat safer option could they? I honestly couldn't care less if people wear them for whatever reason they choose. I don't care if it makes

I wear one when I know I'm going to try something silly - which is almost every day. I can't go past a narrow tree run or jump without giving it a crack.

Probably more likely to wear one in Japan as day off resting an injury would be devastating!

 

That said I've only ever had two head injuries, once without a helmet and once with (which would've been far far worse had I not had one).

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5. Not stupid enough to ski out of control

 

What else ya got?

 

You can be the most careful skier in the world but that's not going to mean a thing if you get smashed into by someone.

 

That's one reason why I almost solely ski off-piste or backcountry. Getting hit by someone else has never been an issue. Plus I just hate skiing on-piste!

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To be honest, i think some of you are overplaying the disruption to a) your field of vision, and B) the lack of ambient sound by wearing a helmet.

Lets forget that i wrote "non safety reasons whatsoever" and that it was a lighthearted comment to GN because he never wears safety gear anyways.

 

But first up lets explain something about snowboarding that skiers dont understand.

 

We have extremely good awareness of our surroundings. Not only can we see whats downhill from us like skiers, we can see whats uphill (unlike skiers). The part we cant see is behind our backs. And our backs face left or right, not up. Since this is a downhill sport this puts us at a clear advantage right from the get go. We can not only prepare our line in front of us and recognise potential hazards, but we can also look up that hill at any point to keep an eye out for people coming past us. Its very rare that youll catch us with our pants down so to speak, because we frequently check our surroundings above us to guard against that very thing by either modifying our line in anticipation of you coming past us, or by recognising you need to be watched until you do pass us by and ride more cautiously. The mechanics of snowboarding means that we can see you pretty much from the moment you hit our visual range (which can be pretty far) all the way through to the moment you pass us. Only for one tiny part of that whole event are you outside of our visual range. With skiers, unless youre deliberately stopping to look up the hill or taking huge cuts across the face of the run, you wont be seeing us until we come past you.

 

Now as for the helmets themselves. Ambient sounds come through a helmet fine. Since its just synthetic paddinge around your ears and not in fact a massive lump of plastic youd be pretty daft to think its doing any more damage to your ambient sounds as wearing a beanie/face mask would. Theyre designed to allow for ambient sounds. I suggets you get a decent helmet if you think its blocking out all sound. It doesnt. It blocks out almost no sound at all (no different than anything you would normally use to cover your ears - like a face mask or a beanie).

 

As for the issue of vision. My goggles affect my peripheral vision too. Im pretty sure you wear goggles too. And i doubt theyve got a larger field of vision than my eg2s. So you know, maybe get better goggles if youre that worried about your peripheral vision... The question then is this; is the field of vision from my goggles further reduced by my helmet? Emphatically, no.

Again, if your helmet is shrinking your field of vision, might i suggest you take your goggles with you when you pick up your next helmet and try and find ones that fit. Im actually typing this with my helmet on. You know what? At no point is my peripheral vision even affected. This is because the helmet comes around an inch above my eyebrows, round to the top of my ears (not over them - thats just the cotton padding for the strap) and round to the nape of my neck. I can hear everything very clearly. I can also see everything very clearly. If the plastic in your helmet is covering your ears or covering your peripheral vision in any way you probably need to stop buying job-lot helmets and maybe pick up one that DOESNT affect your peripheral vision and destroy ambient sounds.

 

As for the idea that it wont protect you if someone slices into your neck... um... really? It wont protect you either if a fridge falls from the sky onto your head, or you spontaneously combust, or someone decides to pick you off sniper style. Its not DESIGNED to protect you from things that it doesnt protect you from. I dont really see a failure to stop me getting my head cut off as being a failure of the helmet to do what its designed to do. Its designed to protect your head from blunt trauma. Its not designed to stop you breaking your ankles, twisting your knees, hitting trees, getting wiped in an avalanche, skiing off a cliff, or ending up buried in a creek bed. The helmet in all those situations is pretty much irrelevant. But my beacon doesnt help me either when a skier cuts into my neck at 40kmh so i should probably not bother with one too, right?

 

As i say, im not here to tell you to wear a helmet or not. Its your choice at the end of the day. Im not even going to moralise about it. Im just going to point out that if you think its impacting your peripheral vision and ambient sounds in any realistic way, you probably need to stop buying cheap POS helmets.

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Wore my helmet yesterday and thankfully glad I did.

 

Was coming down the main slope on the east slope of joestu kokusai and a skiier came across and clattered in to me and I took a hefty tumble, hitting my head on some hard snow.

 

Felt shaken up but noticed my helmet had a crack in it. Can only imagine what would have happened if I wasn't wearing a helmet.

 

 

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No one would or could argue that wearing a helmet is not a somewhat safer option could they? I honestly couldn't care less if people wear them for whatever reason they choose. I don't care if it makes you feel safer or keeps your ears warm or even if the damn things come with a head massager, Go ahead wear em if you want to. Wear whatever you want on your heads for all I care! The only thing that concerns me is that especially in countries like Australia there is a massive nanny state mindset by many. A mindset where people don't like the idea of choice when it comes to levels of safety. It becomes an imperative for them to force everyone into the safest option. At plenty of ski areas here and elsewhere they've already made it compulsory for children to wear helmets and I fear it won't be that much longer before some resorts choose to make it compulsory for adults as well. We already have insurers starting to jump on the bandwagon of saying they won't cover people who don't have helmets. As long as I'm always allowed the choice to not wear one I don't care one little bit about what others choose to put on their heads.

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+1 on GN

It took me some time to type that as I was ROTFLMAO at the concept of snowboarders having ``extremely good awareness of our surroundings'' (except, of course, for the 180 degrees of what's behind them, when it's up to everyone else to protect their right to blindly run into other people)

Ippy, you have a million excuses/reasons/rationalizations/whatever for every opinion you hold, and I'm sure at least one or two of them are sensible, but I'm short of time to sift your Sahara for those particular grains of wisdom.

Beer offer still holds.

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And an other one for DiGriz's comments!

 

Ippy, if you have perfect hearing, that's wonderful for you! But ... as someone who is "hearing depleted" to some extent in both ears, I am acutely aware of the impact that a helmet (and I HAVE tried a few on) has on the hearing, in particular, it impacrts sounds from behind, where the impatient and reckless are more likely to hit me from.

 

As for boarders having more or less awareness of surroundings, I'd suggest that this is so much a personal matter that ANY generalisation about which form of the sport has a greater awareness is just so much bullshit! That said, if you are a reasonably competent boarder, and also a reasonably competent skiier, THEN you might have a point for comparison - BUT, it will only be applicable to you, not someone else!

 

Wear a helmet, if that's your gig. But don't try to FORCE me to wear one for my own safety! I am quite happy to accepot the consequences of skiing without - if I die on slope, then I'll die happy!

 

@KlingKlang - I guess that was aimed at GN?? or ???

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For someone who 'couldn't care less' about the subject, you sure write a lot about it every year!

 

;)

 

Another who can't comprehend english. Hope you don't teach it! ;)

I don't care what other people put on their heads. I do care very much about the subject though. I see compulsory helmets coming to a resort near you in the not too distant future!

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Ah of course. Why bother to argue against a point when you can just say "i win!"

Silly me. And also, whats with this idea you dont have situational awareness. Shouldnt you actually be looking around? I know i do. I guess you musnt actually be as safe as you think.

And what do you mean blindly running into them. Lets assess this scenario. If im uphill from you i see you. 100% i see you, if i come pass you and turn into you then i am a ****ing moron.

Who the hell would do that? Is that something youre prone to doing? i guess you mustnt be as safe as you think you are.

Now lets imagine how this scenario ACTUALLY plays out.

 

Im happy folliowing my line, im doing what a snowboard HAS to do (edge to edge), you completely balls up, try and pass me at a stupid point along my blind side leaving me (nor yourself) any room to anticipate my turn, we crash. Its 100% YOUR FAULT. You were the up hill rider, you should have been the one accounting for the persons line downhill. You were passing me, not the other way around. Hence the collision. Once again, theres only one point i cant see you and if you choose to pass me then (as the uphill rider) you need to think of the following:

 

1. Do i have enough space to pass safely?

2. Am i on the dudes blindside and if so should i be taking super caution should the person be changing their edge and moving into my line without knowing im there?

 

Ask yourself those two simple questions and VOILA!!! youll never be skiing dangerously near a snowboarder again.

 

As for JAs point. Im sorry dude, but you are 100% wrong on this. In addition the BACK of my ear parts are actually softer. The front of the ear piece is a little thicker PRECISELY to block not only the cold but also sounds from the wind rattling around. The back is significantly looser because it doesnt need to be thick. Honestly, and im not just sayin this to win the internet here, but go and try some helmets on. Maybe when you last tried helmets it was a while back, but they arent designed stupidly. Theyre designed to offer your head protection and not hinder your ability to see and hear whats going on around you. Hell, if you even wanted to you can ride without the ear pieces. Every good helmet comes with removable ear pieces. But the difference is honestly NEGLIGIBLE compared to say any old beanie or any old facemask. Basically its just like covering your ears with anything. If you dont use a facemask then nothing forces you to use the ear pieces either. If you do, it makes no difference compared to using one. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly using a very cheap bad quality helmet or is completely ill informed. The reality of the situation is right on my head at the minute. I can still hear everything (with my excellent hearing), and i can still see everything (with my excellent vision). Neither of them are impacted where you wouldnt be able to see someone in your peripheral vision, nor hear them in their approach.

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I'm pretty good at English actually.

But you don't need to tell us that you don't care less what other people do about 5000 times every year.

We get it.

 

 

But we do need everyone telling us how they hit their head and how it would have been worse if they didn't have a helmet on 5000 times a year? That's fine by you is it? You really do have to wonder how on earth the ski industry ever survived the couople of hundred years in the pre helmet period don't you? I mean nearly everyone on here who wears helmets appear to have a story or three of their near misses with deadly head injuries!! How did any of us survive when no one wore helmets? It's obviously an incredibly dangerous sport isn't it? :sj-lol:

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Well, I think what you said makes a lot of sense Ipp!

 

I am adamantly against compulsory helmets and Nanny state activity of this nature (although I suppose the people forced to wear seatbelts for the first time all those years ago might have thought the same...)

 

However helmets are NOT compulsory for all children in Australian resorts. They are compulsory for children in lessons in the resort - which is entirely different. The instructor doesn't know these kids, has a heap of kids to manage and would be open to some serious litigation if he returned little Johnny brain damaged. Its resort lesson insurance. You can still push your own children off at the top of a crowded hard packed piste with no helmet if that floats your boat.

 

And Ippy, I agree my hearing is not impacted by my helmet.

My awareness is pretty good - I would say much better then average. IMHO the advanced skiers in our group have been less aware of the location or a fall of a companion behind than the boarders have been, and bearcub who is now totally comfortable transitioning between both claims his up piste awareness is way worse on skis. Individual skill and awareness does indeed come into it - as does individual 'give a shit' level - I certainly had a boarder riding with the group at one time with zero spacial awareness, it became an avoid avoid avoid mission, so I am in no way saying they don't exist. But there are plenty of us out there who are very aware of our surroundings.

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Why i wear a helmet is also tree related. There i was season 2 in myoko, i think it was suginohara, I wentr into the trees near where the cross course is and was really stoked. I let my speed pick up a bit faster than i should have and suddenly realised i was going way the hell too fast. I stuck out my arm to slow myself on a tree. I honestly have no idea what made me think that was a good idea. But the speed was way too much and my arm bounced off it pretty hard, the momentum pretty much pulled me off balance, i caught an edge and went flying backwards. I landed head first less then a foot away from a very sturdy but young looking tree that could easily have cracked my skull.

 

Incidentally, im also on GNs side, though im not 100% sure he sees that. If you dont want to wear one, dont. ill still happily blog the near misses or the seriously nasty falls i get where i was glad i had my helmet on. I think for most people it takes a near miss to really impel you to pick one up if at all so its not like my talking about will impact the decision making process all that much. But i am still going to tell you what happened, and why i think it would have been worse with a helmet and post up on this here thread (or one like it, im sure this wasnt actually the one i was looking for - wasnt there a more recent discussion on helmets?), so you can all make up your own minds about it.

 

If they arent for you, they arent for you though. I dont mind. But ive had ZERO collisions since starting snowboarding, and one near miss around my 6th day when i was riding FAR too fast for my abilities and had to deliberately slam to not collide with someone (i still have a mental vision of taking her head off if i was about a couple of meters closer). Other than that though, perfect safety record. So i dont think anyone can really throw out accusations that im not aware of my surroundings or incapable of seeing/hearing whats going on. Helmet or otherwise, ive never had a collision. If you also have a 100% safety record: good on you. Keep being one of the good riders.

 

PS. Ive had plenty of yard sales though :)

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ippy, fine for you to be so sold on them, agree that the uphill rider has to be aware and that the fault is theirs if there's a collision. However, and you missed this, I HAVE tried on helmets, and due to my hearing loss, I have noticed a marked reduction in what is hearable. If you cannot understand that, then I am truly sorry for you. but, I HAVE TRIED THEM and I HAVE NOTED LOSS OF SOUND. Cannot be plainer than that.

 

Please, just stop trying to tell me that what I felt and heard wasn't so, because you have absolutely N F I about my situation.

 

If helmets are perfect for you, then that's fine by me, I just happen to have a difficulty with them. And no compulsion will make me change my mind about them!

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Ippy, wear your helmet as and when you want, make all the claims for it you want. It still doesn't add any significant margin of safety to an inherently dangerous sport

As for the rest of your rant:

I don't run into people.

If your ``blindside'' is anywhere except well uphill from yourself, you're responsible for knowing what's there and avoiding crashes.

If you're turning, you're responsible for checking that you aren't turning into someone coming by on that side -- especially on cat tracks and other choke points.

``Always check uphill'' is as much a rule as giving way to those downhill, and claiming you're not responsible for your ``blindside'' is a bullshit copout.

I ride with plenty of boarders, and they all follow basic mountain courtesy, and they don't run into people, blindside or not.

Almost everyone skier/boarder I know has been run into by other skiers/boarders, usually out-of-control beginners.

I suspect your problem lies not with skiers, or boarders, or helmets, or goggles...but with anyone who doesn't follow the Ippy Rules

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Can you snowboard? Im pretty sure you cant otherwise you wouldnt have said any of that with a straight face.

You really dont half talk a load of shit. Its called a blindside for a reason. Its because we are BLIND on that SIDE. We cant see anyone coming on that side. We will have checked, we will have made sure of everything but you cant stand in the way of idiots trying to demand some kind of right of way because theyre going faster than you. Slow the **** down if you cant work out the persons line in front of you. Then when youve got it, pass them safely. This is super super easy stuff.

You know what... let me help you: Heres what happens on a typical path...

 

i look who is in front of me, i read their lines, when i hop on my toe edge i have a quick glance up above me. If no ones there its all good. Ill still keep riding a bit on my line, then ill have another check, no ones there, then its pretty safe to do what i want. Nothings going to happen.

Now lets add some people into the mix:

I hop on my toe edge, i can see pretty much in front and to the side of me. Theres going to be no accident on this edge. I can now also quickly (and effortlessly) glance up the hill. I see you.

If youre far away i might pop onto my heel edge for a bit (until just before youll be actually making your move to pass me) then back across on my toe edge (none of these will be wild, and more than likely itll look reasonably straight). This means youve just been bought a lot more time to pass me and also given a marker of how much room ill need if youre going to suddenly slow down and need more time to pass me. And then as soon as im on my toe edge again, ill have a quick look to make sure youre on the right line and havent suddenly switched out (if you have for some reason, ill now pop back onto my heel edge and hit the other side of the run). You dont even know ive just done that for you. And it was done precisely so you can pass me with as much room as you like.

Alternatively if youre closer ill stick on my line and go as wide as i can on my toe edge to let you pass safely. Then ill flat base it as much as possible. If i truly have to, ill do a quick transition from toe to heel for a second or two (without turning - yes, we can do that), ill be on my toe edge and have bought you some time. (again you wont have even noticed) to get a bit more control back on my edges. And if the absolute worst comes to the worst and its evident we're going to be on the same line and youre being a ****ing idiot and charging through it nevertheless, ill pull up. My being in the right (which i would be in this situation) means far less to me than either of us getting injured. I wont force you off your line, i wont make you even change it. You should have of course, it was 100% your responsibility to adjust your line to the skier downhill, but if you dont, im not going to play chicken on it.

 

Person skiing downhill as right of way at all times. EVEN WHEN theyre being complete idiots and running up and down walls (they shouldnt be on a busy path), but if you have to either pull up and let them do their thing (as i did on skyline yesterday in fact with a group of 5 snowboarders cruising down the twisty turny bit - i sat around a couple of minutes and let them head off), or you need to pass them, then its up to you 100% to make that pass in a safe place. Even if it means you have to ride behind them at a slow pace until you have a bit more room to maneuver. This isnt the ipps rules, this is the resort rules. Pass safely. Dont expect the person downhill from you to have any clue youre even there. Its your responsibility to pass safely. Im not even saying this as an i win (though i do win), but i honestly hope you actually understand this. The ipps rules, were you to enforce them, (where i actually pay attention to the person passing me and often move off my line if theyre planning on coming through it would actually make the world a nicer place, but it would also lead to chaos about responsibility and no doubt lead to MORE accidents not less). But they arent enforceable so lets stick with what we have - if youre downhill you have full right of way. The person uphill has the complete responsibility to pass at an appropriate time and in a safe manner.

 

PS. Zero collisions. Zero incidents involving another person. I notice the phrasing went to "running into" which is obviously very convenient because then you can suggest since the other person was at fault they must have "run into/collided" with me. (and since you seem insistent that the person downhill has some kind of responsibiliy to the person uphill, its not a massive leap of the imagination to work out the circumstances... amirite?)

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Not to start a bun fight, but the guy makes sense.

 

I have been involved in two collisions, one that knocked me out and the other that sent me sprawling.

On both occasions I was hit from behind and blind side by a skier.

On both occasions they were indignant and clearly believed themselves to be 'taken out by another fecking snowboarder'.

In both instances according to independent witnesses (or thier own friends) they were 100% in the wrong.

 

First one, I was a novice, moving pretty darn slowly on my heel edge wondering if I had the balls to change edge and go for it.

This guy was 'playing' with his mates and showing off. Came from nowhere and sent me airborne. When I came to he was screaming obscenities at me while sprawled on the snow about 15 feet away. His friends quickly whizzed past me, muttered an embarressed apology and then told thier mate to "shut up and get going, you totally took her out, you arsehole."

 

Second one I was barely moving, coming to a stop at the base of the lift past the lift line heel edge, blind side to the cattle rail, almost touching it to leave enough clearance for anyone coming behind to get around the front side (wide enough for 2 or 3 people). Female skier clipped my board as I bent to unclip my bindings and we tumbled together, she was going quite fast because one minute I was up, next I was down - getting evil looks from her. I asked her if she was alright, she didn't ask me if I was... What is with that?

 

We share a mountain and there are enough douches out there without adding to them.

How's about we ALL look out for each other, and all be polite and considerate.

 

And Ipp...I also do the check, move, adjust to allow people to pass.

Hallmark of a decent person who doesn't have a stick rammed tight up thier ass.

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Were they both wearing helmets themselves MB? I'm starting to become convinced it's all you people who wear helmets that seem to get into all these problems! I've skied for more years than most on here and never hit my head hard or been hit by someone else on a slope. Yet most of you safety concious, hip helmet wearers seem to have no end to stories of hitting your heads or being taken out by other people! Putting this thing on your head seems to make you a target and cause you to head butt things as far as I can tell. I'm definitely staying away from these damned dangerous things! :p

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Yet most of you safety concious, hip helmet wearers...

hahahah! never change dude! :ph34r:

 

I wil say though im pretty sure i read somewhere something about skiers rarely taking head shots compared to snowboarders. Im not sure why, maybe it included park rats which is kinda obvious. But one of the interesting things might again be mechanics. In particular the mechanics of a fall. Catching an edge is pretty much face plant territory and on any given sunday a snowboarder, regardless of experience has a chance that on the wrong conditions and maybe with a teensy lapse of concentration they get pwned by their deck. Its usually a headshot ;)

 

All the skier crashes (other than high velocity cartwheel ones) usually look more like a snowboarder washing. Those arent head shots. Theyre just sliding on your hips or something. I anticipate i might be wrong on this, but it does give you non helmet wearing skiers a decent excuse to not bother. :p

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Not to start a bun fight, but the guy makes sense.

 

I have been involved in two collisions, one that knocked me out and the other that sent me sprawling.

On both occasions I was hit from behind and blind side by a skier.

On both occasions they were indignant and clearly believed themselves to be 'taken out by another fecking snowboarder'.

In both instances according to independent witnesses (or thier own friends) they were 100% in the wrong.

 

First one, I was a novice, moving pretty darn slowly on my heel edge wondering if I had the balls to change edge and go for it.

This guy was 'playing' with his mates and showing off. Came from nowhere and sent me airborne. When I came to he was screaming obscenities at me while sprawled on the snow about 15 feet away. His friends quickly whizzed past me, muttered an embarressed apology and then told thier mate to "shut up and get going, you totally took her out, you arsehole."

 

Second one I was barely moving, coming to a stop at the base of the lift past the lift line heel edge, blind side to the cattle rail, almost touching it to leave enough clearance for anyone coming behind to get around the front side (wide enough for 2 or 3 people). Female skier clipped my board as I bent to unclip my bindings and we tumbled together, she was going quite fast because one minute I was up, next I was down - getting evil looks from her. I asked her if she was alright, she didn't ask me if I was... What is with that?

 

We share a mountain and there are enough douches out there without adding to them.

How's about we ALL look out for each other, and all be polite and considerate.

 

And Ipp...I also do the check, move, adjust to allow people to pass.

Hallmark of a decent person who doesn't have a stick rammed tight up thier ass.

Do you wear a bright coloured jacket MB?

 

My better half wears a bright green jacket - we have been on an uncrowded piste when a newbie will zero in on her jacket as it is the brightest thing around, and then use her as a crash mat because they are out of their depth - I am not sure whether they lock her in their sights because they are trying to avoid her and then because that is what they are looking at that is where they go (must remember to look at the gaps between the trees, not at the trees themselves!) but she will be oblivious to this happening and I will be watching unable to do anything about it.

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but it does give you non helmet wearing skiers a decent excuse to not bother. :p

 

No one needs an excuse for not wearing a helmet! See how insidious the safety nazi message becomes? If you don't have a helmet on now you need to have an excuse!!! :slap:

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