Markie 0 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 My suggestion for Japan resorts is simply to make it less difficult for foreigners outside Japan to make bookings. I had an extremely difficult time trying to book Rusutsu last year even though I made enquiries and was ready to commit as early as September. Furthermore, they only gave me 5 days/4 nights in the end, when I wanted a week. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I think some people here are forgetting one probable truth....that many resorts do not see foreigners as a big enough potential market to make the (what they think is a considerable) effort to get them. They might be worried that if they got foreigners to know about them outside of Japan, they could not cope with all the pesky English questions etc and basically it is not worth the effort involved. I am sure that is the case with lots of places. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Yes but you'll find that the people coming from overseas generally stay in upmarket places, use the bars/restaurants, buy souvenirs etc. Aussie ski bum/backpacker types in Niseko may be different, but the people coming from Korea, HK, Taiwan etc. aren't staying in some cheap place and eating convenience store food or stuff they've brought from the city. They are generally mature, richer people who are prepared to pay for a good time. That's definitely the case in Hakuba at least. If you can get it, it's a lucrative market to have. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Yes I know that, but the fact is that not many places either know that and/or are willing to put the effort in to get that market and/or decide that for them it is not worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
Dokumanju 0 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 this might be a bit late but here goes, IMHO, i don't think what sum of the people on this board have expressed is bigotry or racism. I would term it it "constructive criticism". As an asian australian, i find that sumtime non-asians have a "molly coddle" attitude to towards asia. it's okay to forgive and overlook certain things, cos, hey they're asians. I mean, during the bubble days, the japanese economy and way of business was touted by many japan observers to be the way of the future. on top of that, the japanese society was the poster boy(or girl) for world communities - high standard of living, low crime, kid's getting good grades in school and everybody's happy. People came to japan and saw, well, only what they wanted to see. there's so much i could rant on about but i won't. anybody who lives in japan will know what i'm talking about. Japan's a country that's always been very receptive to "gaiatsu" simply because of the concept of "gaman" in japanese society. endure this, endure that, it's all "shikata ga nai". I had a talk with a japanese lady yesterday about women getting groped on trains, eventually we got to why some gropee's just wait for the next stop and get off instead of confronting the groper. She said japanese women just can't do it we're weren't brought up this way. She even went on to say women who speak out will have trouble getting married. Sheesh. What i'm trying to say is that japanese society is boxed in, straightjacketted into accepting things as they are. Japanese people, i imagine, would rarely go into a resort and complain. and i think they would be treated as kooks for being outside of the group mentality. most people would just "gaman". it's much easier this way and there's no "meiwaku". So as for mud hut, tin shed, shanty whatever, as a description, yeh not good, cos it's not too close to the truth. But not too far from the truth to be dismissed either. I've never been to a resort outside of japan so i don't have a frame of reference to compare with other countries. like golf courses, ski resorts were a must have item for mountain towns and cities in the bubble era. As a result, resorts suffer from poor planning, poor infrastructure and now, poor profitability. So yeh, i would say the japanese ski industry is in a sorry state. not all resorts and not all aspects tho, i'm pretty impressed by the auto flush latrine doobies in the toilets. anyway, it's 6 in the morning now and time for me to go and try to get sum sleep b4 i go to work. "criticism is good" l8r sk8rs Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Number one the small 3 course resort will die end of story. Sometimes those places are there just to give the farmers an extra pay check. There is nothing to market. A few can survive, by selling to families who want a safe place for the kids. but come on this resorts are not resorts. The industry itself is getting too expensive to start up. Just getting started on mid gear will run you 100000 yen. Resorts not expanding and opening up more terrain. Niseko is a good example, of opening up terrain that can be skied. This also goes for places that could open more mid level terrain (my beef at Arai). One reason I like happo is that if the snow turns to crap, you can find a way down that has been groomed. People want the felling that they are getting better, leveling up. Japans answer is the snowpark and bumps. The snowpark is good but as you get older you just cant jump and bump like crazy. You can ride powder or trees easily. Apres ski? Japanese are Japanese. After I take that Onsen I die as I think they do too. The only place I know that has some nice places to eat is happo. We like apres ski and meeting people. They (not all) like being with their circle group and hittin the onsen. As places die it will make the market better for those who should be in the market. Gifu is a good example of places making a fortune. You can by seasons passes pretty cheap. lovers pass 40000 for 2 people thats 20000 yen each. Located 1.5 hours from nagoaya and between 3 and 3.5 hours from Osaka. When the highway finishes the place will boom even more. Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 So it's boom time down there is it? Link to post Share on other sites
AsterG 0 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I have also heard that the resorts further south are holding up much better than those in northern areas. Why is that? anyone know? Link to post Share on other sites
viv&kev 0 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I wonder why that is. Surely lots of these small places must close. Link to post Share on other sites
bigbush 0 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I think the main thing is lowering prices and changing the image that the sports are ladened with in the most part. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Answer is simple population. Link to post Share on other sites
AET 0 Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Sorry? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I think a few like-minded resorts need to get together into a federation, create some standards and goals, and do some joint marketing. Go for aggressive differentiation from the rest of the non-federated resorts. Standards might include SOPs for patrol, quality of services including restaurants, changing rooms, accomodation etc. Goals would include providing a certain amount of area of each kind of terrain - groomers, steeps, trees, park, X-courses, and childrens courses, as well as providing education in winter sports. I see the likelihood of this happening in Japan at 0%. At the start of this season, Shiga Kogen tried to do some joint marketing based on the sophisticated concept of 'ski' (at least that's how it came across, which in marketing is everything). While it may have raised revenue (and who knows about that?), it won't have made any impact on the overall picture. Link to post Share on other sites
montoya 0 Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 All of Ocean11's ideas are intriguing, would be nice to see it realized someday. It would be a way to quickly differentiate your resorts from your competitors. But you know, businesses here are extremely quick to copy, if they see something becoming successful (which could be good thing here!) Just speaking of Yuzawa in particular (since that's what I'm most familiar with), I recently asked a few buddies who are skiers/snowboarders what they would want changed: *common/free bus system to the major resorts *common lift ticket system for major resorts *more places to eat/drink afterward near the train station. Most people I know on 1-day trips simply leave immediately for home after they're done for the day, cause of the lack of good establishments in town (that we know about). What a waste. End up munching on bento's and beer on the Shinkansen back to Tokyo Station.. Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 There's loads of restaurants and eating places near Yuzawa station, on both sides. Bars - that's a different matter altogether, similar to anywhere else. Link to post Share on other sites
montoya 0 Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 hi big-will, There are eating places near the station, but in general my J friends mentioned the whole area seemed kinda drab and uninviting (esp to the OL types). But, if you know of any really good places, please let us know! Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I was in Yuzwa yesterday, it was their snow festival (and raining, which was a real downer). It looked fairly lively over there near the Ropeway area, but I know what you mean. There do seem to be restaurants etc but nothing too exciting out there. Link to post Share on other sites
taguchi 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I find the discussion here very interesting. I saw the similar article in Japanese too. It seems resorts know they need to change somehow, but there are scrambling around for possible answers, with no-one really finding any yet. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Tell us more about what the Japanese press is saying, tachuch-san, when you can! Link to post Share on other sites
DeepProbe 0 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 montoya - know of any ski towns here that aren't drab and uninviting. If you do, please tell me - I'm still looking. Link to post Share on other sites
nagpants 1 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Harsh. Try Nozawa and Zao for nice little places with an atmo Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 The problem in a nutshell is a lack of lateral thinking, fresh ideas and attention to some pretty basic fundamentals. The only constant in business (apart from tax) is change. The market is constantly changing, new trends develop and many resorts have their heads buried in the snow dishing out the same product which served them well in the bubble while bleating about falling revenue. I read a rediculous article about Shiga Kogen wondering why they arn't doing well. They were (quite incredibly I think) saying that they lost out early season because there was too much snow and Tokyo people could ski at resorts closer to home. One of their ideas to generate business was to provide cheap guides who are actually instructors ie subsidizing loss making instead of having a proper plan to make money. They still don't accept snowboarders at much of the area, have no apres ski and they're scratching their heads wondering why they're not so popular anymore. Dumb as **** if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Quote: They were (quite incredibly I think) saying that they lost out early season because there was too much snow and Tokyo people could ski at resorts closer to home I can't see whats so incredible about that. Some resorts lose out if there is bumper early snow (or late snow) and peoples choices are wider. I know for a fact that places like Kagura in Yuzawa pray for less snow early and late in the season? The reason - because they are always guaranteed to have good snowfall, and if there is not much at town level, then people don't have a choice of resorts, and go to Kagura. They lose out if everywhere is open early and late in the season. Link to post Share on other sites
HoTRoD 2 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 It just doesn't make sense why they'd do that - because boarders are allowed on most parts of SK now (aren't they?) Just can't work that one out. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger's head 0 Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 All apart from the 2 parts at the southern end and the norther Okushiga area. Link to post Share on other sites
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