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As usual you shoud just stay well away from discussing the science snowdude. You don't know anything about it. The models have been predicting a reduction in the rate of warming between now and approximately 2030 for quite some time as they do take into account many factors other than just CO2. The slow down in warming has been completely expected and predicted by the science. It hasn't shown any real signs of cooling down as yet though and this year is looking to be within the top 10 warmest years on record. Most of the rest of the top 10 have fallen within the 2000's. If this is cooling down I'm still not really seeing it! When I said above that there is a chance that it may cool a bit I probably should have said that it's not overly likely and it won't last long. Certainly not long enough or low enough to tip us over into an ice age. Where do you come up with this stuff? Care to share your sources? Importantly as I state above most of the natural forcings on climate suggest we should be cooling pretty rapidly currently. The fact we don't really seem to be suggests that the warming forcing of increased concentrations of CO2 is quite strong and basically masking the natural forcings. Still if we do enter something like a Maunder Minimum again we would definitely expect at least a 'little ice age' if the sun truly is the main driving force of our climate currently. If we don't get it then maybe even you'll have to get over your denialism of the AGW science snowdude.

And C02 levels have been higher in the past? Yes they have been but how long ago were they as high as they are now and just how warm was the climate then?

 

And you show a complete lack of understanding of how the climate models work. There are numerous global climate models recognised and used by the science, all of which differ slightly but the thing they all have in common is that they have been found to be pretty good at hindcasting which is essential if they are to be used for forecasting. You have actual historical data you put into the models say from 1900. You put in as much data as you can and then run the forecast say to 2000 and then see how well the model does against the actual temperature record. If it does pretty well then you have a reasonable amount of confidence that it will do pretty well at forecasting from now. It's not an exact science that's for sure but it's hardly a stab in the dark either.

 

The magnetic field is not showing any signs of imminent reversal. You do realise don't you that just because we are coming up to around the average time period between a reversal doesn't mean it's actually going to happen anytime soon? In the past reversals have occurred within 50,000 years and there been periods when there hasn't been one for more than 10 million years. Sure you can work out an average of all reversals throughout the history of the world but it's basically meaningless in determining when the next one will occur. Could be within a couple of years but it could just as easily not be for another couple of million years or more. Plus I'm still interested in what evidence you believe there is that magnetic reversals affect climate. Again sources?

 

Just as I thought,!!! A few months ago you were telling me I am wrong when I said it will get colder, telling me that all the models you have been looking at from various sources are certainly showing a warming trend and over the next so many years it will certainly warm not cool!

Now you are telling me the models have been showing a cooling for sometime! BS!

 

Almost all the models had been showing a warming trend or rather have been adjusted to show a warming trend, which ever, it is only recently that the warmists have changed their minds, because they have been found out that they have been editing and falsifying data in order to get more government funding to keep up their shitty research. People are starting to wise up to this and many have since changed. They have gone from saying man made gases have created global warming which is a dead certainty to oh no it is climate change with natural variations to oh no actually it is cooling after all.

 

They cant even predict what the weather is going to do in a weeks time let alone know how the planet will be in years to come.

 

I don't care what computer models say they can not accurately predict the climate! The sun on the other hand can decide what the weather on the planet is going to be like! Maybe they should try to read the sun instead!

 

I am not a scientist for sure, but I also don't walk around with my head in the clouds either.

And at least I don't keep changing from one fact to another!

Maybe GN you don't know what your talking about, or you just choose to believe ever thing the scientists tell you!

 

Anyway I am sure you will always disagree with me, which is fine, like I said before wait a couple of years or so and see what happens.

How much the planet will cool I don't know nobody does, but I am sure it will cool quite considerably

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But TJ told us that winter was here a few weeks ago, and didn't say anything about it not being here since, and I always believe him.  

Very wintery here in Mooloolaba Qld as I just got home from a night on the pus with my workmates and got the severe cold shoulder from my be-loved hic!

No probs Tubby. Fwiw, I also take issue with folks calling all snow "powder", but that old chestnut can wait till another day.   The sun's trying to break through at the moment in Hakuba so you can

Kagura cam is showing snowfall......good to see snow down to the Road area in Hakuba, even if it is a dusting. I hope by 6pm the Japan Alps have been smothered in white powdery stuff :clap:

 

There's not tons, about 10-15cm at our place, but more than a dusting for sure. Everything looks wintery now. 47 said 20-30cm at the top.

 

Given that it hit 11C yesterday morning, its more than I suspected. I guess we're only just over the "cold enough" line but that'll do for the time being. More please!

 

it wasn't a stirring post, I meant a dusting on the road area that has the cam.....you were still seeing grass poking through but white all the same.....and if its like that at the bottom then the hill is gonna have a decent fall

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On and off at the moment for a while before it was really coming down and we soon got 3-4cm of snow, easing off at the moment.

Sort of not 本格的 at the moment, hopefully by the end of the day we'll get some of that.

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No probs Tubby. Fwiw, I also take issue with folks calling all snow "powder", but that old chestnut can wait till another day.

 

The sun's trying to break through at the moment in Hakuba so you can get a clear view on some of the webcams. I doubt anywhere lower down will be open, but 47's quad is going tomorrow, so things are coming together higher up.

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As the topic question is very general I take the freedom to answer for central Germany, like Frankfurt am Main.

 

It looks like the winter will start this weekend.

Today it is raining like crazy at see level, but in around 700m it is snow, snow, snow.

Can't wait to get the family on to the slopes in Rhön region this weekend.

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Just as I thought,!!! A few months ago you were telling me I am wrong when I said it will get colder, telling me that all the models you have been looking at from various sources are certainly showing a warming trend and over the next so many years it will certainly warm not cool!

Now you are telling me the models have been showing a cooling for sometime! BS!

 

Almost all the models had been showing a warming trend or rather have been adjusted to show a warming trend, which ever, it is only recently that the warmists have changed their minds, because they have been found out that they have been editing and falsifying data in order to get more government funding to keep up their shitty research. People are starting to wise up to this and many have since changed. They have gone from saying man made gases have created global warming which is a dead certainty to oh no it is climate change with natural variations to oh no actually it is cooling after all.

 

They cant even predict what the weather is going to do in a weeks time let alone know how the planet will be in years to come.

 

I don't care what computer models say they can not accurately predict the climate! The sun on the other hand can decide what the weather on the planet is going to be like! Maybe they should try to read the sun instead!

 

I am not a scientist for sure, but I also don't walk around with my head in the clouds either.

And at least I don't keep changing from one fact to another!

Maybe GN you don't know what your talking about, or you just choose to believe ever thing the scientists tell you!

 

Anyway I am sure you will always disagree with me, which is fine, like I said before wait a couple of years or so and see what happens.

How much the planet will cool I don't know nobody does, but I am sure it will cool quite considerably

 

Actually if my recollections are correct I specifically stated in our previous discussion that all the natural factors that affect the climate, like the sun, were all lined up for a period of cooling but to date we have not seen it. I specifically stated that this was due to the warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere of which CO2 is the main culprit.

The models have for many years now shown that the rate of warming would decline for a period of around 20-30 years from the early 2000's. They do not show and have never shown that temps would decline rapidly into an ice age. I did not say they have been showing cooling. Maybe one of your big problems is an inability to comprehend what you read. If we enter an extended period of sustained lower solar output then there is certainly a chance that temps may cool for a period. Unfortunately I doubt it will cool much, if at all, because of warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases. Even if temps do cool slightly from the lofty heights we've seen over the last 10-15 years because the sun goes into a prolonged cool period it doesn't in anyway discredit the science. The science has never maintained that warming would be uniform and linear. There will be variations along the way associated with natural climate variation. The science is very well aware that CO2 is not the only forcing that affects the climate, something you can't seem to grasp.

 

Recently you claimed that the JMA forecast put out about a month ago was going to be found wrong and your forecast right. Pretty much as predicted the last month on Honshu has been warmer with well below average snowfall just as JMA predicted. They do often get it completely right but you'll always deny this. Facts aren't one of your strongpoints. And because you know little to nothing about forecasting you should be aware that weather forecasting is quite different to climate forecasting.

 

In one of our previous discussion we also discussed your claims about the credibility of the historical temperature database and that you believed it only showed a warming trend due to things like biased site selection, station accuracy, the UHI not being taken into account, biased adjustments, etc, etc. I guess you haven't made yourself aware of the recent study into the temperature record at Berkley to specifically test these claims. The study was commissioned by skeptic groups in the US and was praised by all sides as completely independent and unbiased. They used as complete historical temperature dataset as was possible. Over 1.6 billion temperature reports from 39,000 unique stations worldwide. You can look at the results of their study here. Basically not good news for your side. The temperature trend they found was practically the same as that relied upon by the IPCC and that things like site selection, site accuracy and whether or not you add in major cities (for UHI effect) basically had little to no effect on the long term trend. So sorry old boy but you can't rely on those arguments anymore, they've been found to be completely and utterly wrong.

 

At the end of the day what really annoys me snowdude is this dumbing down of our society. Where people like you give more credit to some internet blog by some nobody than to the real science going on. Not only that but even though you have never studied any science, let alone climate science and have never worked in any scientific field and have incredibly limited knowledge about science because of your 20 mins or so of reading some blog you suddenly believe that you have greater insight into the climate than those who've spent lifetimes of study and research in the field. Do you also think you know better than any neurosurgeon out there about how to operate on brains? Do you know more about physics than a physicist with a doctorate who has had numerous papers published?

I'd guess you'd say no to both of these. Then what on earth is going on in your brain for you to believe you know more about climate than climate scientists who devoted their lives to study and research in this field? I don't just blindly accept anything I'm told or read and I strongly support skeptical thought but you are not skeptical. You don't actually have enough knowledge of the science to be able to form logical or rational skeptical views of it. You are a denier. You don't care or want to know about the science. You just have faith in your internet blogs without showing a shred of the same skepticism of them as you claim to have about the real science. It's all just so utterly ridiculous.

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  • SnowJapan Admin

Just updated the Naeba Now page but all of Kagura should be open from tomorrow.

More news on other resorts tomorrow morning, it's all going to depend on how much we get tonight (obviously!)

 

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/daily/yuzawa-now.php

 

http://www.snowjapan.com/e/daily/naeba-now.php

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well not much to add to Muika's comment, he's pretty much nailed it. I understand that people want to spin their business in the best light, but don't be surprised when people shoot it down when it is bullshit. There are a couple of guys, well mentioned already, who just went overboard with the spin. They could get away with it on foreign based snow forums but on this forum we have people from all over the country so the crap is likely to get found out. Now guys like Mr Wiggles, who I feel is not one of the hype merchants, tend to take the brunt as there are only a few of you Hakuba people left who post.....which is a shame as it is one of the best areas for snow in the country and deserves an honest voice on the forum....but thats the problem. I always thought Stemik was fair in his posts too, but he posts infrequently now as well. The "bottomless" jibe is now pretty entrenched and certain people only have themselves to blame for that. Anyways heres to a great season in Hakuba and everywhere else!!

:cheers:

Thanks TB. I have been extremely busy, but I will post pics of Hakuba throughout the season now that winter has finally arrived.

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Still snowing here hopefully will get a decent amount on waking up tomorrow.

 

Stemik, will look forward to your photos. Hakuba certainly deserves more visual representation here.

SJ should be glad I am not there, I'd be stuffing the server full within a few months. :lol:

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well not much to add to Muika's comment, he's pretty much nailed it. I understand that people want to spin their business in the best light, but don't be surprised when people shoot it down when it is bullshit. There are a couple of guys, well mentioned already, who just went overboard with the spin. They could get away with it on foreign based snow forums but on this forum we have people from all over the country so the crap is likely to get found out. Now guys like Mr Wiggles, who I feel is not one of the hype merchants, tend to take the brunt as there are only a few of you Hakuba people left who post.....which is a shame as it is one of the best areas for snow in the country and deserves an honest voice on the forum....but thats the problem. I always thought Stemik was fair in his posts too, but he posts infrequently now as well. The "bottomless" jibe is now pretty entrenched and certain people only have themselves to blame for that. Anyways heres to a great season in Hakuba and everywhere else!!

:cheers:

Thanks TB. I have been extremely busy, but I will post pics of Hakuba throughout the season now that winter has finally arrived.

 

I'd like to experience Hakuba bottomless. Never been there.

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Got to Hakuba on Wed, town looked snow free except some white stuff on the peaks. Overnight we got 20cm in town and 30-40cm at the top of Happo One, conditions were very good for the 2 lifts that were open. Looks like this is the beginning of the season now. Expecting more snow tonight, with peaks of sunshine tomorrow. Not expecting the whole mountain to be opened until the next storm cycle next week.

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Just as I thought,!!! A few months ago you were telling me I am wrong when I said it will get colder, telling me that all the models you have been looking at from various sources are certainly showing a warming trend and over the next so many years it will certainly warm not cool!

Now you are telling me the models have been showing a cooling for sometime! BS!

 

Almost all the models had been showing a warming trend or rather have been adjusted to show a warming trend, which ever, it is only recently that the warmists have changed their minds, because they have been found out that they have been editing and falsifying data in order to get more government funding to keep up their shitty research. People are starting to wise up to this and many have since changed. They have gone from saying man made gases have created global warming which is a dead certainty to oh no it is climate change with natural variations to oh no actually it is cooling after all.

 

They cant even predict what the weather is going to do in a weeks time let alone know how the planet will be in years to come.

 

I don't care what computer models say they can not accurately predict the climate! The sun on the other hand can decide what the weather on the planet is going to be like! Maybe they should try to read the sun instead!

 

I am not a scientist for sure, but I also don't walk around with my head in the clouds either.

And at least I don't keep changing from one fact to another!

Maybe GN you don't know what your talking about, or you just choose to believe ever thing the scientists tell you!

 

Anyway I am sure you will always disagree with me, which is fine, like I said before wait a couple of years or so and see what happens.

How much the planet will cool I don't know nobody does, but I am sure it will cool quite considerably

 

Actually if my recollections are correct I specifically stated in our previous discussion that all the natural factors that affect the climate, like the sun, were all lined up for a period of cooling but to date we have not seen it. I specifically stated that this was due to the warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere of which CO2 is the main culprit.

The models have for many years now shown that the rate of warming would decline for a period of around 20-30 years from the early 2000's. They do not show and have never shown that temps would decline rapidly into an ice age. I did not say they have been showing cooling. Maybe one of your big problems is an inability to comprehend what you read. If we enter an extended period of sustained lower solar output then there is certainly a chance that temps may cool for a period. Unfortunately I doubt it will cool much, if at all, because of warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases. Even if temps do cool slightly from the lofty heights we've seen over the last 10-15 years because the sun goes into a prolonged cool period it doesn't in anyway discredit the science. The science has never maintained that warming would be uniform and linear. There will be variations along the way associated with natural climate variation. The science is very well aware that CO2 is not the only forcing that affects the climate, something you can't seem to grasp.

 

Recently you claimed that the JMA forecast put out about a month ago was going to be found wrong and your forecast right. Pretty much as predicted the last month on Honshu has been warmer with well below average snowfall just as JMA predicted. They do often get it completely right but you'll always deny this. Facts aren't one of your strongpoints. And because you know little to nothing about forecasting you should be aware that weather forecasting is quite different to climate forecasting.

 

In one of our previous discussion we also discussed your claims about the credibility of the historical temperature database and that you believed it only showed a warming trend due to things like biased site selection, station accuracy, the UHI not being taken into account, biased adjustments, etc, etc. I guess you haven't made yourself aware of the recent study into the temperature record at Berkley to specifically test these claims. The study was commissioned by skeptic groups in the US and was praised by all sides as completely independent and unbiased. They used as complete historical temperature dataset as was possible. Over 1.6 billion temperature reports from 39,000 unique stations worldwide. You can look at the results of their study here. Basically not good news for your side. The temperature trend they found was practically the same as that relied upon by the IPCC and that things like site selection, site accuracy and whether or not you add in major cities (for UHI effect) basically had little to no effect on the long term trend. So sorry old boy but you can't rely on those arguments anymore, they've been found to be completely and utterly wrong.

 

At the end of the day what really annoys me snowdude is this dumbing down of our society. Where people like you give more credit to some internet blog by some nobody than to the real science going on. Not only that but even though you have never studied any science, let alone climate science and have never worked in any scientific field and have incredibly limited knowledge about science because of your 20 mins or so of reading some blog you suddenly believe that you have greater insight into the climate than those who've spent lifetimes of study and research in the field. Do you also think you know better than any neurosurgeon out there about how to operate on brains? Do you know more about physics than a physicist with a doctorate who has had numerous papers published?

I'd guess you'd say no to both of these. Then what on earth is going on in your brain for you to believe you know more about climate than climate scientists who devoted their lives to study and research in this field? I don't just blindly accept anything I'm told or read and I strongly support skeptical thought but you are not skeptical. You don't actually have enough knowledge of the science to be able to form logical or rational skeptical views of it. You are a denier. You don't care or want to know about the science. You just have faith in your internet blogs without showing a shred of the same skepticism of them as you claim to have about the real science. It's all just so utterly ridiculous.

 

My info is not all from blogs far from it, as I don't believe all what is written on them either!

I get my info from various sources just like everyone else does then I study everything and make my conclusions from that, I also studying my own ways of predicting weather events some of which don't work at all, some of which do have some accuracy. And as much as I respect and appreciate all the studies scientists do and hope they continue their great research and work I don't have a lot of respect for lying data fiddling government funded climatologists and their supporters!

That is what really really annoys me! Some out their sure are good and honest, and they are the few that are now starting to expose all the global warming scams!

And I really don't give a toss about how many papers someone has published if they lie about their data / info or what have it! If they are honest about the findings I have the greatest of respect for them!

What I also hate is when the so called experts say one thing one day and a few weeks later they change to something different! If they genuinely believe what they said is correct, but get it wrong and admit it that is fine it happens, but when they know it is wrong, but give people false information that is too much!

The governments stand to make a lot of money from global warming scams, but not if the world cools, it is in their own interest to make sure the world is warming up, even if it isn't!

 

Well anyway I am sure you will comment again GN, you cant help yourself, but like I said we will see in a couple of years or so who is right!

If I am right I will let you apologize for your attitude! I am not one for holding grudges for ever!

And if I am wrong I will happily admit mistake, I have no problem with that either!

 

As far as I am concerned this debate for now is over, you can comment if you must, but it will go unread by me, for a couple of years anyway!

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ABSOLUTELY DUMPING in AKITA!!!! woot! so stoked! Gonna make some turns this weekend! its about damn time! Hope everyone else makes it out this weekend!

 

Great news for to hear its falling Akita :highfive:. Hopefully no boarding on gravel & sasa for me this year.

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Just as I thought,!!! A few months ago you were telling me I am wrong when I said it will get colder, telling me that all the models you have been looking at from various sources are certainly showing a warming trend and over the next so many years it will certainly warm not cool!

Now you are telling me the models have been showing a cooling for sometime! BS!

 

Almost all the models had been showing a warming trend or rather have been adjusted to show a warming trend, which ever, it is only recently that the warmists have changed their minds, because they have been found out that they have been editing and falsifying data in order to get more government funding to keep up their shitty research. People are starting to wise up to this and many have since changed. They have gone from saying man made gases have created global warming which is a dead certainty to oh no it is climate change with natural variations to oh no actually it is cooling after all.

 

They cant even predict what the weather is going to do in a weeks time let alone know how the planet will be in years to come.

 

I don't care what computer models say they can not accurately predict the climate! The sun on the other hand can decide what the weather on the planet is going to be like! Maybe they should try to read the sun instead!

 

I am not a scientist for sure, but I also don't walk around with my head in the clouds either.

And at least I don't keep changing from one fact to another!

Maybe GN you don't know what your talking about, or you just choose to believe ever thing the scientists tell you!

 

Anyway I am sure you will always disagree with me, which is fine, like I said before wait a couple of years or so and see what happens.

How much the planet will cool I don't know nobody does, but I am sure it will cool quite considerably

 

Actually if my recollections are correct I specifically stated in our previous discussion that all the natural factors that affect the climate, like the sun, were all lined up for a period of cooling but to date we have not seen it. I specifically stated that this was due to the warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere of which CO2 is the main culprit.

The models have for many years now shown that the rate of warming would decline for a period of around 20-30 years from the early 2000's. They do not show and have never shown that temps would decline rapidly into an ice age. I did not say they have been showing cooling. Maybe one of your big problems is an inability to comprehend what you read. If we enter an extended period of sustained lower solar output then there is certainly a chance that temps may cool for a period. Unfortunately I doubt it will cool much, if at all, because of warming forcing of increased greenhouse gases. Even if temps do cool slightly from the lofty heights we've seen over the last 10-15 years because the sun goes into a prolonged cool period it doesn't in anyway discredit the science. The science has never maintained that warming would be uniform and linear. There will be variations along the way associated with natural climate variation. The science is very well aware that CO2 is not the only forcing that affects the climate, something you can't seem to grasp.

 

Recently you claimed that the JMA forecast put out about a month ago was going to be found wrong and your forecast right. Pretty much as predicted the last month on Honshu has been warmer with well below average snowfall just as JMA predicted. They do often get it completely right but you'll always deny this. Facts aren't one of your strongpoints. And because you know little to nothing about forecasting you should be aware that weather forecasting is quite different to climate forecasting.

 

In one of our previous discussion we also discussed your claims about the credibility of the historical temperature database and that you believed it only showed a warming trend due to things like biased site selection, station accuracy, the UHI not being taken into account, biased adjustments, etc, etc. I guess you haven't made yourself aware of the recent study into the temperature record at Berkley to specifically test these claims. The study was commissioned by skeptic groups in the US and was praised by all sides as completely independent and unbiased. They used as complete historical temperature dataset as was possible. Over 1.6 billion temperature reports from 39,000 unique stations worldwide. You can look at the results of their study here. Basically not good news for your side. The temperature trend they found was practically the same as that relied upon by the IPCC and that things like site selection, site accuracy and whether or not you add in major cities (for UHI effect) basically had little to no effect on the long term trend. So sorry old boy but you can't rely on those arguments anymore, they've been found to be completely and utterly wrong.

 

At the end of the day what really annoys me snowdude is this dumbing down of our society. Where people like you give more credit to some internet blog by some nobody than to the real science going on. Not only that but even though you have never studied any science, let alone climate science and have never worked in any scientific field and have incredibly limited knowledge about science because of your 20 mins or so of reading some blog you suddenly believe that you have greater insight into the climate than those who've spent lifetimes of study and research in the field. Do you also think you know better than any neurosurgeon out there about how to operate on brains? Do you know more about physics than a physicist with a doctorate who has had numerous papers published?

I'd guess you'd say no to both of these. Then what on earth is going on in your brain for you to believe you know more about climate than climate scientists who devoted their lives to study and research in this field? I don't just blindly accept anything I'm told or read and I strongly support skeptical thought but you are not skeptical. You don't actually have enough knowledge of the science to be able to form logical or rational skeptical views of it. You are a denier. You don't care or want to know about the science. You just have faith in your internet blogs without showing a shred of the same skepticism of them as you claim to have about the real science. It's all just so utterly ridiculous.

 

My info is not all from blogs far from it, as I don't believe all what is written on them either!

I get my info from various sources just like everyone else does then I study everything and make my conclusions from that, I also studying my own ways of predicting weather events some of which don't work at all, some of which do have some accuracy. And as much as I respect and appreciate all the studies scientists do and hope they continue their great research and work I don't have a lot of respect for lying data fiddling government funded climatologists and their supporters!

That is what really really annoys me! Some out their sure are good and honest, and they are the few that are now starting to expose all the global warming scams!

And I really don't give a toss about how many papers someone has published if they lie about their data / info or what have it! If they are honest about the findings I have the greatest of respect for them!

What I also hate is when the so called experts say one thing one day and a few weeks later they change to something different! If they genuinely believe what they said is correct, but get it wrong and admit it that is fine it happens, but when they know it is wrong, but give people false information that is too much!

The governments stand to make a lot of money from global warming scams, but not if the world cools, it is in their own interest to make sure the world is warming up, even if it isn't!

 

Well anyway I am sure you will comment again GN, you cant help yourself, but like I said we will see in a couple of years or so who is right!

If I am right I will let you apologize for your attitude! I am not one for holding grudges for ever!

And if I am wrong I will happily admit mistake, I have no problem with that either!

 

As far as I am concerned this debate for now is over, you can comment if you must, but it will go unread by me, for a couple of years anyway!

 

I get very confused about why people get so angry about climate warming predictions. Also why they make statements about government scams? How do governments scam money on the back of measures to reduce global warming? Surely in the end if we do take measures to reduce CO2 and then find it was unnecessary that will be better than doing nothing and finding out CO2 levels have raised global temperatures to un-reversable levels, leaving us cooked, literally & figuratively.

 

Surely some of the biggest beneficiaries from denying CO2 levels & global warming would be the large, oil multinationals? I am interested to know what are the benefits of scientists lying? This is very rare as data tends to be published, peer reviewed and scrutinized. Again, why would scientists threaten their whole career to publish false data?

 

Please, enlighten me.

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No probs Tubby. Fwiw, I also take issue with folks calling all snow "powder", but that old chestnut can wait till another day.

 

+1 on that. Around here in the Seattle area, and NW North America in general, the snow can be pretty wet and heavy. But people still refer to it as powder. Drives me crazy! Not all new snow is powder.

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I get very confused about why people get so angry about climate warming predictions. Also why they make statements about government scams? How do governments scam money on the back of measures to reduce global warming? Surely in the end if we do take measures to reduce CO2 and then find it was unnecessary that will be better than doing nothing and finding out CO2 levels have raised global temperatures to un-reversable levels, leaving us cooked, literally & figuratively.

 

Surely some of the biggest beneficiaries from denying CO2 levels & global warming would be the large, oil multinationals? I am interested to know what are the benefits of scientists lying? This is very rare as data tends to be published, peer reviewed and scrutinized. Again, why would scientists threaten their whole career to publish false data?

 

Please, enlighten me.

 

It's just the last refuge of the desperate torihada. The deniers of human induced climate change don't base their supposed skepticism on science. Because they don't actually understand the science they can't really attack it from a scientific viewpoint. So because they can't shoot down the message they go after the messenger, the scientists. So we have some rather fantastical conspiracy theories out there that, as with most conspiracy theories, takes a rather special mind to buy into. As you point out if the deniers want to talk about money and it's influence on this debate we all know where the real money is. It's with oil, mining and energy. Some of the biggest and most profitable multinational companies on the planet who potentially have a lot to lose if we move away from our reliance on fossil fuels.

 

Again my main issue in this whole debate is how people with no understanding of the science, really none whatsoever, somehow come to the belief that they have some special understanding because of a few blogs and websites they've read. It seems that really we could just do away with all formal education doesn't it? Why worry about finishing high school or attending a tertiary institution and attaining degrees and post graduate qualifications? All you have to do to be an eminent expert it seems is to read a few blogs on the internet. It really is that simple!! So you go for a job interview say as a structural engineer and instead of presenting your formal qualifications you just give a list of the websites you've surfed. Should be a shoe in for the job then yeah? You need surgery why go to a surgeon? Get your mate to read up on the internet about how to do it and save time and money! Lets not take advice from professionals and experts ever again. What's the point? They're all just greedy people who lie constantly to line their own pockets. And we can all be experts by reading a few blogs on the internet can't we! :rolleyes:

 

At the end of the day the denying of climate science has mostly come about because it is seen as a green initiative. And for many anything green is seen as leftist, commie and anti-progress. Deniers have been easily convinced by fear campaigns that claim a move away from our reliance on fossil fuels will be a step backwards and change totally our way of life and destroy our economies. It's also very easy to confuse people about the state of the science when the vast bulk of the population understands little beyond the most basic concepts, many not even that. It's easy to produce pseudo science that for the scientific illiterate is impossible to distinguish from real science and the internet is the perfect place to publish such rubbish without any peer review or oversight. The most ridiculous thing is people like snowdude who are ever so skeptical about the state of the real science apply little, if any of the same skepticism to the information they get from their fravoured internet blogs. Again it's all systematic of the dumbing down of our society where people who claim to be skeptics don't even understand the concept of being skeptical. Where they hold onto an ideology completely regardless of scientific evidence. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, people have been doing similar things to justify their belief in fairytales about gods throughout history.

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No probs Tubby. Fwiw, I also take issue with folks calling all snow "powder", but that old chestnut can wait till another day.

 

+1 on that. Around here in the Seattle area, and NW North America in general, the snow can be pretty wet and heavy. But people still refer to it as powder. Drives me crazy! Not all new snow is powder.

 

:slap: yes it is!! :veryangry:

 

 

 

 

 

;)

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