Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 the thing about Shiga though is that its a Ghost town after the lifts go off and thats during peak season, god knows what its like in April. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The ghosts are gone by then! Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: DiGriz Quote: Grand Hirafu (Niseko) and Kiroro on Hokkaido meet your brief No, they don't OP's first post Quote: Looking for some advice as to where would be good given the following factors: 1)would be coming second week of April (9th) so I'm guessing somewhere colder/higher would be needed for good snow 2)party of 6, 2 who are advanced (1 skier 1 boarder) 4 who are beginners 3)good selection of piste and off-piste. Challenging runs welcomed by the advanced guys 4)Preferably not top dollar, but equally doesn't need to be on a shoestring. Happy to spend the dough for the right place 5)Nightlife would be good but main interest is the snow 6) Snow park would be good but not essential (although I think most places have these). I think you'll find Grand Hirafu and Kiroro meet his brief. April 2009 as an example of what can be experienced on Hokkaido http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/312649/29.html Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Mike, the OP wants good snow for a week -- let's call it the second week of April. Odds are very against getting more than flurries during a one-week stay in April. Will it snow during the month? Of course, probably 15-20cm at least two or three times. Those are pretty poor odds. Far more probable is the freeze/thaw of sunny days. If the OP loved skiing frozen moguls in the morning, and slushy moguls in the afternoon, he probably wouldn't ask about good snow... Then there are the four beginners. Hirafu ain't necessarily the most beginner-friendly hill even in good snow. The morning after a sunny day in spring followed by an overnight freeze...not much fun for them. Kiroro would be a little better, I'd agree, but not enough to recommend. It's still low-altitude spring skiing at best. If they really want to come to Japan, I'd go with Snowjunky's recommendation of Shiga as offering the best chance of decent, fun snow & terrain for the entire group, given the huge advantage in altitude -- the bases at Oku Shiga/Yakebitai/Yokote are higher than the peak at Niseko. Hakuba would be good for the advanced two, less so in spring for beginners. Unless they're looking for the cultural experience, or simply don't want to travel too far, I still suggest Europe, or Tahoe/Whistler/Salt Lake/Banff, as offering far, far better April conditions than Niseko, even assuming they got lucky. January/February, hell yes Niseko is awesome; 90% of the time you can expect 30-50cm dumps at least twice a week -- maybe more and more often. After that it's hit & miss, though, and when you're talking about the investment in time and money for six people traveling 8,000 km for a ski/snowboard vacation, basing your recommendation on having seen good snow there a few times during a month+ stay at that time of year isn't what I'd call kind. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: DiGriz There's a very good reason most of the lifts and much of the village at Niseko are closed for the season by end-March. And what reason would that be? In the 8 seasons I lived in the region the only one I can think of is that there wasn't enough people there to profitably keep everything open. Not once was it because of lack of snow. April is a fantastic time to head out backcountry as well. Looking at the stats on the Now reports Hirafu average snowdepth mid April is 85cm (bottom) 260cm (top) from 9 seasons. Because of its' higher base Kiroro would average even more snow at the base level and probably more up higher as well. The Shiga Kogen stats only have mid April for 7 seasons and I took the highest snowdepth from any of the areas recorded. Average sowdepth mid April up high was 167cm. Almost a metre more snow on average on the upper slopes at Niseko. Not sure on what basis you claim that Shiga would be better for snow in mid April. Exactly how many Aprils have you spent in Niseko? Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 GN, I'm not saying there isn't a huge BASE of snow at Niseko in April. Of course there is -- all that snow that fell in January & February, nicely packed down and warmed by the sun each day, then refrozen every night. You're right, I've NEVER been to Niseko in April. After going there half a dozen times in March many years ago, I realized April wouldn't be worth the trip, especially when I can enjoy far better odds on new snow elsewhere in that month. Quote: A fantastic time to head out back country Yeah, I'm sure those four beginners would get a real kick out of that. Lots more fun for them than cruising fresh snow on the blues and greens of Shiga. GN, you and Mike are not doing Niseko any long-term favor by constantly beating the drum that it's a five-month season of perfect conditions for everyone. You're just building up expectations that won't be met and will create disappointment and dissatisfaction, eventually leading to a bad reputation for what is a great ski area in-season, which April ain't. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 D'Griz you are not doing yourself any favours by acting as though you know more about Niseko than people like Mike and myself who've spent many seasons there. We both suggested Niseko as we both believe that it mostly fulfills what the OP is looking for from our years of spending many Aprils there. I'm sure that Shiga Kogen is also a good option. I just don't get why you feel Niseko is not. It ticks all the boxes for what the OP is looking for as far as I'm concerned. At least you can't claim anymore that I only promote Niseko because of my employment there as I don't even live in Japan anymore and I have no business interests in the region. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've only been up to Niseko once in the first week of April (2006) and we got fresh snow almost every day there (and white out conditions once or twice). I've never seen snow like that anywhere else that late in the season. I think we were probably just lucky that it was that good... Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 BM, you may've been: in 2006 the mean daily high for Kutchan in April was the lowest since 1984. Oh, and it was above average for precipitation that year, as well. Not a patch on years like 2010, 2000 & 1995, of course, but more than double what you would've seen in 2008. The point is that it's a low-altitude, maritime climate, which means you do indeed have to be a little lucky. You're far more likely to get a dump of 20cm (and have one hell of a great one day) followed by a week of sunny thaw/freeze. And that doesn't sound to me to meet the OP's needs, especially with four beginners. (Perhaps you guys were all born such accomplished skiers or boarders that you just never experienced the thrills of dealing with ice as beginners.) Shiga, on the other hand, is higher altitude and less maritime, which means probably no big dumps but more frequent small falls of snow that then stays in better condition. And that's all I have to say about that. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Only one bulletproof morning when I was there in April for my first trip EVER - as a deadset never before even seen snow newbie. By lunch it was slushy - but not horridly so. Pretty damn near perfect for a beginner to learn in. I will argue the toss with GN on Aussie resorts and why lots of people still love to go; but when it comes to Niseko - he has always been on the money. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I wish I could comment about Shiga but it's actually one of the few places I haven't been. I think the moral of the story is you have to be lucky to get reasonable conditions pretty much anywhere in Japan at time of year. Unlike Canada (where I grew up skiing on ice patches!) the season starts and stops rather abruptly here. After I hurt myself back in 2005 I've been all about the powder and rarely do early or late season stuff unless the conditions are excellent. I usually retire my board for the season around the last national holiday in March (which is usually the 20th) Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 The only comment I can make is - man, not many would go ski/board in April. Talking about the general Japanese public who doesn´t live locally at the resorts. I´m sure GN or Mikepow are more knowledgeable in this compared to asking a Japanese person. Bit of an eye opener, really. If I have an opportunity .. why not ! Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I think the thing that's been missed is the OP WANTS to come to Japan and CAN ONLY come at that time. Based on those two points alone both Shiga and Hokkaido fit the bill. Having never been to Shiga in April, or ever been for that matter, I have not commented on it's pros or cons. Quote: And that's all I have to say about that. Link to post Share on other sites
stefk 0 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks for all your help guys... looks like a toss up between Niseko and Shiga I guess. Just curious, Niseko seems a pretty well integrated resort with continuous access to the different fields from each other, Shiga seems different given that the individual resorts are spread out. I assume you have to shuttle bus between the resorts? Also, how likely is it that all the lifts will be operating in April? Shiga looks like there is a significant number of runs but if only half of the lifts operate then that obviously cuts the number back. Is this likely to be the same in Niseko? Sorry for being a complete noob, different sort of set-up to the alpine skiing I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
iiyamadude 6 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Most of Shiga Kogen is connected. The only part that is not, and you need a bus, is the southerly Kumanoyu and Yokoteyama area. The rest you do not need to take your boots off once. Vast area. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've had quite deep freshies in mid April at Kiroro. It was after two days of very hard ice though. I guess anywhere cold enough for fresh at that time is also going to be cold enough to hard freeze the snow that has melted in the sun during previous day. April sun is much warmer than winter sun. Fingers crossed for you anyway! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: StefK Thanks for all your help guys... looks like a toss up between Niseko and Shiga I guess. Just curious, Niseko seems a pretty well integrated resort with continuous access to the different fields from each other, Shiga seems different given that the individual resorts are spread out. I assume you have to shuttle bus between the resorts? Also, how likely is it that all the lifts will be operating in April? Shiga looks like there is a significant number of runs but if only half of the lifts operate then that obviously cuts the number back. Is this likely to be the same in Niseko? Sorry for being a complete noob, different sort of set-up to the alpine skiing I guess. By mid April at Niseko the Hanazono and Niseko Village ski areas will be closed for the season. Hirafu and Annupuri will run with limited lifts mid week and open a couple more on the weekends. Just to be very clear you would be going in what is considered late season and although fresh snow is possible expect Spring conditions with freeze/thaw on sun facing slopes daily. In Hirafu village (if that's where you will stay) the free shuttle bus will have ceased operation for the season so ensure that if you are not within easy walking distance of the lift then the accommodation will give you a complimentary shuttle. Most will at that time of the season. It is very quiet in the village at that time with most of the people left being locals. Most of the seasonal staff will have gone by then as well. Not that many restaurants will still be open beyond the ones that normally stay open year round and maybe only a couple of bars will still be operating. Still it's not a bad time of year to be there though. You'll practically have the lifts and mountain to yourselves. The days are quite long and temps generally fairly pleasant and often sunny. You may not get peak season conditions but you're not paying peak season prices. Accomm rates at that time are at least 50% off peak rates. I have no idea about the amount of lifts and terrain still open at Shiga in mid April. Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Most of Shiga will still be open, excepting a bit of the lower terrain. As with Niseko, pretty much spring conditions but the higher altitude helps a bit in keeping snow decent. If anything, even a 90%-closed Niseko offers better restaurant/bar potential than Shiga, where everyone mostly eats & drinks what their hotel offers. Don't like to be discouraging, but still think you'd be better off saving a Japan trip for when you can come in mid-winter and enjoy what's best about skiing here. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 yeah I'm with DiGriz.......if you are wanting to spend that money to come to Japan, you wanna get the conditions its famed for, April will not be it. However I'd guess that its still expensive for you to head to the alps or Rockies as well, but at east a better chance of good conditions. That said if your expectations are lower and you are happy to come here for spring conditions then there is still plenty of fun to be had out there and who knows what tricks Mother nature will throw up Link to post Share on other sites
Slippery Jim 65 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Six inches of Snow in April...haven't I heard that somewhere before? Link to post Share on other sites
TJ OZ 0 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 What we have here in Japan in April will be better than what Australia can dish up in peak season (especially what they had this year). I know the locals in Hakuba are loving that time of year as I'm sure the Niseko guys would be. The weather is good, you will get cheap accommodation deals and there is still plenty of snow. If you are lucky then you might get some fresh stuff but it is about the spring skiing. For me if it was the only time in my calander I could come then I would certainly make the trip. 850 vert is still available at 47. Happo will have it's upper runs going and Tsugaike will still have plenty of snow up top. Get a few lessons for your beginner mates and then do the heli drop at Tsugaike. Lots of long lunches and beers in the sun. The powder here is awesome but I think that many people get so spoilt by that, that they don't even get on the mountain during the spring time. I love it because my work is done and I can finally chill out and enjoy my mountains at a leisurely pace. Link to post Share on other sites
JellyBelly 1 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Many people don't have the chances to get out there that you do. So when they do get out, they want powder. Simple really. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 especially if spending a lot and coming from abroad. Unless of course they realise that it'll be spring conditions and are still happy to come Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yes and for that they need correct information, not hype. Link to post Share on other sites
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