masher of moguls 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 But no, that's not what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites
greg 4 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 no worries, discuss it over a beer some time , hopefully in the snow lol. Link to post Share on other sites
D train 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thats the same thinking here- everything is hierarchy( or used to be ) and the only thing that can eff up your career trajectory is a black mark against your name- so everyone avoids having their name attached to things like the plague. Doing nothing equals winning for the average salaryman. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I really think that is simply a stereotypical response from a gaijin from outside of the system not fully understanding how it works and having one of his 'I could do much better' fits. Does doing nothing equal winning more for an 'average Japanese salaryman' than it does for an 'average insert-Western-country salaryman'? Well actually shouldn't ask as you will obviously say yes. Nonsense. You are just displaying your ignorance. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 At the end of the day I tihk the main factor is that they don't make much money from season passes. The vast bulk of them would be for staff working at the resort. And most of them have passes bought and supplied by their employer. Employers also get a number of complimentary Grand Hirafu passes. Few of the domestic or international tourist market would need or want to buy them. Not when there are many other options available like hourly or point passes. There's just nothing in it for the resort to make the cost that much cheaper. It obviously hasn't been a big issue in the success and popularity of the resort. At the current early bird discount price you only have to ski more than 18 days to make it worthwhile to buy the season pass (compared to buying 1 day passes). An 18 day pass costs Y76,500. A 21 day pass costs Y86,100. So you'd have to be at the resort for more than 3 weeks to make it worthwhile buying a season pass. Besides staff and locals there's very few people who'll be there that long. I'd like to see better discounts for locals but I don't see any benefit for the resort dropping the price. Link to post Share on other sites
greg 4 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Like you say GN, at the end of the day it is about adding value. If the company doesn't see great value in season passes it will be a lower priority to other identified higher value concerns. Link to post Share on other sites
D train 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 As I said, it used to be. Around here,it`s fairly old school with Tokyu, Kutchan , NPB et all. I`ve seen it with my own eyes too many times to be dissuaded that that is not the case at hand. I`m not racist , just competentist. Or is it time for me to get out of your Japan then, SKI? ; ) Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: D train I`m not racist, just competentist. That sounds really great, but... what does it mean? Originally Posted By: D train Or is it time for me to get out of your Japan then, SKI? Wow, that really is highly original. Very well done! Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Why is it being racist? We all know that any kind of change here takes a long time to come, Japan is a very hierarchical society. The older you are, the more senior and further up the ladder you are. It certainly appears that the old Japanese adage of the nail that sticks out gets battered down, so I'd be interested to hear your reasons as to why this view is wrong and totally misunderstood by foreigners Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Maybe in the big smoke of Tokyo things are a little more progressive Tubby. I know your description is very apt for how things were up on inaka island. My opinion of Tokyu is that they are just terribly incompetent. I don't care less if they are a Japanese company or about possible cultural issues for them being the way they are. For a company that has been mostly going backwards for many, many years to not take full advantage of a new and very lucrative market is just business ineptitude of a magnitude that is hard to comprehend. Especially when this market basically fell into their lap. They had every opportunity to make a lot of money from this new market and be at the forefront of directing the development. Now they are just perceived as a terrible hinderance to Niseko becoming all that it could be. A horrible waste. It's nothing to do with racism it's everything to do with inept management. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 D Train, TubbyBeaverinho and Go Native all seemed keen to rush in and mention 'racism', though I don't know why. I didn't. I said that this... Quote: Thats the same thinking here - everything is hierarchy( or used to be ) and the only thing that can eff up your career trajectory is a black mark against your name- so everyone avoids having their name attached to things like the plague. Doing nothing equals winning for the average salaryman. ...was a stereotypical response. And it is. As is this... Originally Posted By: Tubbyinho the old Japanese adage of the nail that sticks out gets battered down If you want to stick doggedly with those well-worn classics and just whip them out whenever you disagree with the way any company is run, great. No doubt your far greater management skills would see all businesses run better. Gaining consensus, which takes time, is simply not the same as individual workers being worried about getting black marks for being responsible for a decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 You would hope so and in fairness I'm not involved in how offices/corporations work but In my limited experience with my old company and how that office was run, I haven't seen any evidence of misunderstanding by the foreign residents, its more of a Ronseal moment......does exactly what it says on the tin! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 As I said it's nothing to do with racism. It's to do with incredibly bad business management and a complete inability to take advantage of a new market that arrived at their resort through no effort of their own. It landed in their laps and they squandered just every opportunity possible. Maybe I need to be less ignorant like you seem to be Ski to understand why this occurred? Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: SKI D Train, TubbyBeaverinho and Go Native all seemed keen to rush in and mention 'racism', though I don't know why. I didn't. I said that this... Quote: Thats the same thinking here - everything is hierarchy( or used to be ) and the only thing that can eff up your career trajectory is a black mark against your name- so everyone avoids having their name attached to things like the plague. Doing nothing equals winning for the average salaryman. ...was a stereotypical response. And it is. As is this... Originally Posted By: Tubbyinho the old Japanese adage of the nail that sticks out gets battered down If you want to stick doggedly with those well-worn classics and just whip them out whenever you disagree with the way any company is run, great. No doubt your far greater management skills would see all businesses run better. fair enough I mis-read your quote and thought it was you who mentioned racism but it wasn't but when did I even say I could run anything better?? In fact in response to GN's post I stated my lack of actual business knowledge but when I asked for your reasons why you didn't think this gaijin held view of Japanese society/business was wrong, I'm interested to know, you didn't say. These "well worn" phrases become well worn for a reason and I think you'll notice that i also spoke of its dated use, so "whipping them out" is hardly appropriate to my post. From the outside of business in japan, it certainly looks the way that DTrain and GN say, so if you can enlighten us then that'd be great Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I didn't say you could run things better Tubby. That was actually more aimed at our business dynamo, Go Native. Sorry if you took it personally. How could I possibly 'enlighten you'? What is it that you want to know? Just something other than the stereotype? That was the point that I was making. Link to post Share on other sites
D train 0 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Not original, but got there. Competentist = Hu/ mour . heu mohr. The problem with waiting for a consensus is that often by the time you decide, the moment has passed- and the resort would still be deciding whether to keep the Betamax if it was up to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 And just to give a blanced view here, there are many non-Japanese businesses with directors /owners and employees that are out of their depth and providing less than adequate products and services. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ski, I wasn't being flippiant, I actually am interested to hear why you think the stereotype is just that. Like I said, from the outside it certainly looks that way and my own experience of business is extremely limited. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 No doubt the stereotype fits in some instances, but it's lazy to just throw it around like some people do. I have worked in 3 large companies in my fairly long years in Japan. In my current work environment, which is 99+% Japanese for the record, speaking up and going out there and doing things is encouraged and there is no 'fear of a black mark'. It's pretty competitive. The fear is being left behind by colleagues - the salarymen here most definitely want their name on something. Do they have a very strong group identity? Sure. Do big decisions sometimes take a long time? Yep. Do they like their ideas to be a success rather than a failure? What do you think? You may have noticed Japanese companies having some modest success in the world economy over the years. That didn't come about by no decisions being made. I don't think my experience is anything out of the ordinary, from talking with some of my friends. Or perhaps we just work for amazing companies. Say you work in London. My guess is that there are plenty of 'average salarymen' who for 'doing nothing equals a win'. Don't hear that much as a stereotype though do you. Originally Posted By: D Train Or is it time for me to get out of your Japan then, SKI? See, there's another old chestnut. D Train seems to trade in them! Link to post Share on other sites
D train 0 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sorry SKI, I am just pulling your leg to get a rise- bit slow round here at the moment. Agreed with Mike Pow re foreign companies as well, though I would say the Niseko boom plus visa issues excetera would , like many booms, lead to people starting businesses to fill gaps in the market without being qualified to do so or having thought the process through- and sinking or swimming as the market matures. It also doesn`t help when the core foreign residents were mostly snow bums/ english teachers when things kicked off either... Whistler boomed and busted a number of times before it got it right and Niseko will likely do the same- and we the local foreign residents are just looking for signs that the government and larger institutions around have some kind of game plan. Remember, taxation without representation is what gave us America.... Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: D train Sorry SKI, I am just pulling your leg to get a rise- bit slow round here at the moment. Hilarious, indeed! Though actually I was replying to Tubby Beaver. Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Has Niseko 'busted' yet? Link to post Share on other sites
masher of moguls 0 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: pie-eater Slightly off topic but is that dude the one from West Wing? Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sure looks like him. Link to post Share on other sites
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