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The NPB was run and administered by Tokyu. All accommodation businesses who wanted to be members had to pay an annual fee based on the amount of beds they managed. For some companies the fees were well in excess of Y1 million per year. When you are paying that much you obviously want some value for money. The problem has been that most companies have felt they have not been getting that value. They certainly feel they can get much more marketing value from that sort of money themselves. There has also been a feeling that some of the Tokyu guys appointed to head up the NPB have seen the position as little more than a foreign funded junket.

 

So I am not surprised at all that the foreign companies have decided to leave the NPB. I wouldn't be surprised either if they start their own promotion board (without Tokyu) and actually hire someone who knows something about marketing. They wouldn't mind paying if they were actually going to get some value for money.

 

I'm not sure about 'fear of biting the hand that feeds them'. Tokyu do virtually nothing to support local businesses. You're lucky as a company to get a few season passes from them. I know most companies have done their best over the years to try and keep good relations with Tokyu purely for the sake of good will. Still it's not easy dealing with a company that has absolutely no vision of the future for the resort and virtually no overall plan for future improvements. Look at any major successful ski resort elsewhere in the world. They are bound to have links to master plans for exapansion and improvements for many years to come. They plan ahead to remain successful. You will not find anything like that from Tokyu. It gets depressing to see such a fantastic ski area wasted under the management of such a company.

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"Fear of biting the hand that feeds them?"

 

Well, most of the smaller companies in town run by gaijin are ski schools, guides or accommodation providers serving to the foreign market that Tokyu doesn`t cater to ( self included) . Ski schools and guides are at the grace of the resort- shock waves were sent through the schools last year when it was rumoured they were going to disallow non Tokyu ski schools to operate at family course as they were gumming up the lift lines. Such rumours are the as common as the falling of the leaves around these parts each autumn.

Accom providers earn a stipend from the passes they sell to guests via a resort discount and get a service charge back for sales- over the season it is a considerable sum- often the difference between an average and/or good season.

The locals, foreigner and Japanese alike , are not overly concerned about the winters, particularly the next few, as growth is likely to continue as we continue to become Asia`s ski destination of choice. It is the foresight and infrastructure we want to see, the development of here as a four season (or even two season) destination along with road redevelopment,banking, post offices, developmet of Sunsportsland as a recreational destination- all things we want to voice our opinions on- that without Tokyu`s approval is a nonstarter from the get go.

Tokyu is the big cheese in Hirafu- Tokyu is a major conglomerate in Japan and as such pull huge weight in regards to government policy around here. Their executives, transferred from departments stores in Osaka or hotels in Sendai know one thing- that Hirafu is a golden goose on a spreadsheet full of red ink and minuses and- in traditional fashion- they know the last thing they want to do is have any original thought or missive that could be associated with them that would endanger that. Listening to the opinions of Gary Gaijin is the molotov cocktail of corporate life in Japan.

I am not saying Tokyu is the devil- this all started because I was trying to explain why the resort has shitty English on their website and pronouncements- it`s because the relationship between the mountain and the foreign community here has deteriorated in the past few years to the point that despite having hundreds of native speakers on hand to translate, avenues of communication are basically non existent.

They don`t listen to us because why the f""k should they? None of us can vote, None of us are shareholders in Tokyu to any extent to worry them, and doing nothing is a far safer option in the grand scheme of their corporate career than actually thinking about the future here. So in the end, sitting down with Japanese corporation Y and purchasing gondola X using government stimulus Z to put a newer faster gondola in the exact same, nonlogical place is far better for those concerned, than actually going through all the bother of making a proper decision that would have far reaching positive benefits for the future, but would require short term negotiations and consensus building.

The news of the new gondola was basically unknown until that press release was put out- even the NPB didn`t know about ( or at least didn`t post about it) and the NPB is an organization that collects(ed) hundreds of thousands of dollars annually from local business in the name of promoting and developing Niseko .

 

And as for a International resort jacking the prices, they would have to keep them consistent with competing resorts around Hokkaido, for fear of losing the domestic market, which still makes the lions share of their ticket sales, despite appearances.

 

rant over.

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Originally Posted By: D train
They don`t listen to us because why the f""k should they? None of us can vote, None of us are shareholders in Tokyu to any extent to worry them


Just thinking out loud, but how about getting a few concerned people together, becoming shareholders, and making some suggestions at the next shareholders' meeting?
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Thanks for that D train. All very predictable and depressing.

 

Perhaps no-one with any say in your new lift has ever ridden one of them snowboard things.

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Thanks D Train and Go Native. That was indeed interesting.

How long as this NPB been going then before it's immintent disbanding? I wonder if they would join one put together by other people. wink

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Originally Posted By: D train
The locals, foreigner and Japanese alike , are not overly concerned about the winters, particularly the next few, as growth is likely to continue as we continue to become Asia`s ski destination of choice.


Growth is likely to continue this winter?
GN seemed to saying not...
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We'll see muika.

 

I don't personally think we'll see any growth from Asia this coming season. But in the years to come I expect the Asian market to swamp the Aussie one which got the ball rolling up that way.

 

I think the biggest issue people have with Tokyu is the lack of drive and enthusiasm for the future. And the lack of any enthusiasm regarding the exapanding foreign market over the last 10 years. At times you almost felt as though they've seen the influx of foreigners more as a problem than a very lucrative opportunity. I just want them to sell to another company that really has some vision to create a world class international ski destination. Tokyu doesn't have this. I don't care if it's a foreign or Japanese company that buys them out as long as it is a company that has a plan for the future which inspires continued investment and improvements to the resort.

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It is very frustrating on a big picture level, but I for one am very happy that they have no vision as this enables me as an independent instructor to work and earn a living at a fantastic mountain.

 

This is not possible in the majority of resorts around the world that I've visited / worked at.

 

Unfortunatly this situation could change overnight (as D-train mentioned).

 

And a major downturn in international visitation could be the catalyst.

 

My two biggest bugbears are:

 

1. The cost of a season pass - too expensive. If it were cheaper we'd see longer stays from international visitors and more frequent visits from domestic visitors.

 

I've long advocated that a season pass for someone earning their living on the mountain should be more expensive. And I would be willing to pay it.

 

 

2. Snow management. There should never be a white ribbon of death on the home run with 14+ m of annual snowfall, especially as snow in the Lower Village sticks around longer than that at the resort.

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Originally Posted By: MikePow
I've long advocated that a season pass for someone earning their living on the mountain should be more expensive. And I would be willing to pay it.


How much are they now then?
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The season ticket is an amalgamation of the cost of the previous four separate resorts (Hano, Hurafu, Higashiyama, Annupuri) season tickets costs, with no notable discount. In the old days they were all separate and unconnected-until the United Pass came along.

Compare to the multi mountain passes in Colorado costing 4-600 bucks . Sigh.

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Originally Posted By: DiGriz
(and that Niseko is too expensive period).
Is that right, Mike?


Niseko can be expensive if that is the sort of holiday you want to have. It can also be about as cheap as any other similar sized ski resort in Japan. If you're staying in a luxury western-style apartment (which are barely found at any other resorts in Japan) instead of a pension then yes you will probably pay more. If you eat at at an upmarket western-style restaurant instead of an izakaya or ramen place then yes you'll probably pay more. If you hire top quality gear from a western owned hire place you'll likely pay more than from a Japanese place that probably doesn't have anywhere near the same range. Niseko in my opinion just has far more options than at most other Japanese ski resorts. It's up to you if you go for the more expensive ones.

The season pass cost though is something I also have an issue with. Tokyu won't budge on it though. The issue has been raised with them many times.
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GN, we're talking about season passes, not the `experience'

 

Just took a quick look and the Alta season pass runs about $750, or half the Niseko cost; day tix at Alta & Snowbird are roughly the same price, so I'll guess you can buy Snowbird's pass for about that.

Jackson Hole seems to be about the same as Niseko at $1,500 (I like to figure things at $/Y100 just to keep it simple).

A real bargain is the $650 season pass good at Vail/BeaverCreek/Keystone/Breckinridge/A-Basin in Colorado and at Heavenly Valley & Northstar in the Lake Tahoe region -- especially with day tix in Colorado close to the $100 level!

 

Does anyone have info on season passes in Europe?

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As I said the issue of the cost of season passes has been raised with Tokyu numerous times. They don't seem to care. As a guess there'd be very little interest in season passes from the domestic market (besides those living and working at the resort). They take little interest in the needs and wants of the international market so it's just not something they care about.

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