Freeride, Powder Snowboard Tips

[Jynxx 4]

Are you into freeriding and powder or thinking about having a go? Maybe you are a beginner and think that freeriding boards are for experienced riders only...WRONG!

Wondering you should get a new board because you feel what you got is not quite right?

Is there anything I can do to improve my riding? I have a few thoughts I´d like to share,

 

I picked up my Salomon Burner 157 freeride snowboard (2008 model) after my 10th day of snowboarding. This a a so called "stiff, fast, expert snowboard". In the beginning, it was difficult to make short turns. When the speed was slow, I had to jump to change direction. It took me a week to really tune in and it has been my favorite board ever since...

If a 5´8´´ (170cm) 55-60 Kg elderly guy can do that, I wonder what "expert" really means in choosing a snowboard.

 

Everyone need a starting point. A reference. For me a 151 twin tip board was just that. I chose a softer flex, I experimented with my stance, practiced a bit of switch. But I also fractured myself twice on this board because it´s so loose... it doesn´t have the stability of the longer board.

So if you are just starting to snowboard but really don´t wanna be a park rat and wanna freeride, bend your knees and get into it. There´s a whole mountain out there.

 

The aim of this guide is to make the most of what you got - that is you and your snowboard.

It really comes down to this.

 

1) YOU - Your stance width - I recommend at least 20 1/2 in when your hight is 5´6´´ (165cm) and 22 in for someone 5´8´´ (170cm) ...

 

2) Your snowboard - I recommend that your board length be about 157cm for 5´6 (165cm) 55 kg. Go longer if you like but don´t go wide. This may limit your choice.

 

 

You will perhaps notice that your stance width is narrow compare to what I have quoted, especially if you are 6 ft (180cm) and riding a 20in stance.

The point here is STABILITY COMES FROM THE STANCE and wider stance not only gives you that but also will make your knees bend more... in turn your knees acts like a shock absorber .

I dig that "what feels good is right for you" ... so if your stance is currently narrow, start increasing it by a hole, and gradually go wider.

Let me go a little further about STANCE because I have some proposals...

 

THINGS YOU CAN DO WITH STANCE

 

1) Changing feet angles helps release your joint lockups in your hip. Maybe a physiotherapist can verify this idea.

I ride Duck. plus 21 / minus 15 degrees

I change these angles by adding/reducing 3 degrees random on both feet, preventing my joint tendons to lock up.

 

2) Increasing stance width will do the same. - Relax

 

3) The center of your weight is at half way between your feet, So, by widening your stance, this halfway point is going to shift.

Remember this when you set your binding on the board, This is an additional component of where your weight is going to be on your snowboard. We will be talking about setback/offset later.

 

YOUR SNOWBOARD

If you can afford to have 2 boards, one for freeride and one for powder, no worries. But if you can only get one board, these are the things I would consider.

 

Here´s what people get excited about. There´s always that expectation that your new board is going to do some magic, or that little X-factor that will trigger you to leap into the Zone, making you feel that you are improving.

I´m not going to say anything about board technology but some fundamental things. I´m not going to give a list as to what board length suits you. But since my wife and I ride this length and we are small people, I get the feeling a lot of you guys are riding too short.

 

First thing. If you get a POWDER SPECIFIC BOARD it will be a compromise on on/off piste conditions.

Let´s think of what this Powder actually means.

Powder means a lot of things. How deep is it? Is it a tree run?

(1) Pure powder boards - swallow or pin tail over 170cm to 2m suited for deep powder, for open steep terrain. The float and speed that comes from the length will carry you through flat sections. Not a bad choice if you are a big person who is already riding boards close to this length.

 

(2) Powder boards approx. 157 (intentionally on the short side) because it has a wide nose and waist. Good for tree runs.

 

The disappointment is likely to happen when someone who pics (2) and reckons it´s going to be OK on piste. When it get´s bumpy, the wide nose picks it up. It get´s wobbly cos the bump knocks it. There is a solution to this. Move your bindings towards the tip, so your center of weight (halfway between you feet) goes to the center of the board. These boards are designed to have your weight on the tail (makes the board float in powder).

As long as it is a nice groomed run, no problem. It carves well.

If you are making turns by edge to edge transitions (not sliding your tail out) you will find that it´s a little more work when the board´s waist width is wide. You will feel this if you have small feet size. The solution is to change the angle of you feet. Bring the angle closer to 0 degrees. Your feet is more perpendicular to the board. Your toe is more closer to the edge of the board so you get leverage. "(2)Powder boards" are good for people with big feet.

 

 

FREERIDE SNOWBOARDS

So yeah, why not just get a freeride snowboard that is just designed to do that. Powder being just one of the freeride situation.

Having a longer board without the wide nose and waist width. It ROCKS!

I like to set my binding towards the tail, so I do get more float in powder. I don´t have problems when it gets bumpy with a narrower board. You need to find that right hole on the board to set your bindings, giving you the stance width.

The length gives me the float. AND you being on the tail of the board.

Longer boards have stability under high speed. Why is this necessary?

Snowboards aren´t so good in moguls, right? And the longer the snowboard is, you can´t snake through the troth. So, this is the technique I use.

Often when you see moguls, you can find a straight line in between moguls. You might find a straight fall line at the side of the course that has moguls. Provided that there aren´t people around, just point it down and go!

Make sure you bend your knees and absorb the bumps and shocks. Trust the board that it will land and be stable even if you pop.

This is practice for future mountain situations. Rocky, narrow ... no other way but point it straight down.

 

SHAPE

I like the board with a slight pin shape, My Salomon Burner has Nose 294mm Tail 290mm It´s just 4mm but it makes a difference, I don´t think it is nesessary to have more than 10mm.

The Burner waist width is 253mm, I have an Atomic that has 257mm waist width and I can feel the difference,

The Atomic is a wider board and it does float more in powder. It is supposed to be a freeride board but since I have a small feet (US7.5) it is more of a "(2)Powder boards". It has a V cut out in the tail. Like a swallowtail, I can sink the tail and lift the nose in powder. You can slow down doing that when you are going straight downhill.

The advantage of this V tail is that your tail does not slide out like excessively tapered pintail. Swallowtail and Pintail are just different ways going about being able to sink your tail by reducing the surface area in your tail. They do have a different feel. I suggest you find out if you like it or not.

This "Cutting a V in your tail" might be a good way to make your old snowboard into a powder board. Or buy a wide snowboard second hand. Since it´s powder specific, the condition of the edge doesn´t matter so much, huh!? But before cutting it with a power saw, use a hacksaw and pre-cut the edge.

 

ATTENTION

Snowboards´ specs change every year. The Salomon Burner width is different from year to year, What you have to be careful about is this...

eg) I´d like to get a longer board BUT the manufacturer assumes " longer board, bigger guy, bigger feet, wider board" and that is no good for me.

So as a indicator, if you are about my size, about 170cm and 60Kg , the Nose 294mm Waist 253mm Tail 290mm is a good reference.

If it has added technology ie) nose rocker for pow, Bonus! but not mandatory.

 

Hope this helps

 

One thing. I´m always adjusting my binding, If you got an impression that I am screwing the bindings on and off all the time, you got that right! It helps when there are phillips screwdriver at lifts (like in Europe) so I don´t have to carry it around.

[Jynxx 4]

CHOOSING A BOARD

 

So you want to find a freeride snowboard that will perform well?

This is what I suggest.

 

(1) If you are about 160- 170 cm (5´4 ~5´8) 50~70 kg

Look into the manufacturer´s board site and look at the specs. Choose a directional freeride board with Camber. A nose rocker for pow is a bonus. Find a board with a nose width that is close to 294mm and under 298mm. The width about 253mm (Don´t go wide).

Pin shape is great but anything in excess of 10 mm you will start to feel the tail slide. Don´t get too worried about stiffness. Stiffness in the tail is great with a softer nose.

The length of the board you will be looking. About 156 to 161.

Important thing is that, if you want a 161. make sure that it´s only the length that is longer and the nose and width is not wider.

 

Burton Malolo, and the like is not what you will be looking for. They are short/wide powder specific boards. You probably don´t need it unless you want one just for powder days/ tree runs.

 

(2)If you are a bigger person / with bigger boot size

You have more choices actually, because most boards get progressively wider when they go up in length.

You will be looking at boards over 160 in length.

Also you can look at shorter/wider powder boards because your boot size will take it. But, remember LENGTH will give you float. I still think a longer not too wide board is more of a all round board. So again, this type of board is for someone who wants a short board to play in between the trees on powder.

 

Other things I´d like to say ..

Board selection gets personal and it is a personal choice. Having said that, I am not a gear-whore.

My wife and I have 5 boards between us and we only use 2. If you are on your own, you probably want to just have 2 boards you have spent your money on. The first (reference board) you started on, and the one you really dig to ride now.

Most likely you will end up with more boards, but there´s no point in having lots of identical boards lying around.

Here are some things to think about.

 

(1)It´s great when you have mates to snowboard, but sucks if you are in that clicky group, who only thinks "That brand board is cool..." and you buy a board or ride that style from peer group pressure. Snowboard are not a fashion item.

 

(2)There are no women specific boards. This is pure marketing, and it sucks when they put those girly graphics on a perfectly good board (for light weight people). Not all girls like girly graphics either.

 

(3)Don´t get sucked into new technology. There are great boards from few years back that could be bought at a good price.

 

 

 

 

SETTING YOUR BINDING - STRATEGY

 

LEFTY LOOSY, RIGHTY TIGHTY

ALWAYS LOOSEN/TIGHTEN SCREWS DIAGONALLY

 

Very important that.

Now let´s think about how to get that stance. Where do we put the binding on. Two ways I can think of going about.

 

(1) You are coming from a twin tip freestyle board.

 

If you are a beginner, you were probably riding this type of board and your bindings are set up so that you are on the center of the board. Your CENTER OF STANCE = CENTER OF SNOWBOARD

Transfer that setup. Since you have been riding this way, use that as your reference point. That will give you only one difference from your old board - Your new board is longer.

If your stance is narrow, (less than 21) you can gradually move your tail-side binding one hole at a time.

This will achieve two things. Widening your stance for stability which is essential for the longer board, and shifting your CENTER OF STANCE.

 

If you already have a wide stance, move both your bindings one hole to the tail. You are "setting back" meaning you are shifting the CENTER OF STANCE (where the weight goes on the board) to the tail. Keep doing that till you find the best spot. It is very likely that you will find one for on-piste and another for powder conditions. There is nothing wrong if you are riding a directional board center stanced most of the time, and setting back when it´s powder. Eventually you will get used to the setback position with a longer nose and then you can go from hard pack to powder on the slack.

 

(2) You are already riding a directional board with a setback

 

I would fix your tail-side binding first.

Then measure out 21 inches (or something close to that) and fix the nose-side binding.

If you have narrow stance, you widen it one hole at a time like I said before. Remember that this will shift the CENTER OF STANCE toward the nose if you do so by moving the nose-side binding.

So the question is... Which hole to use first.

 

(a) Leave one hole and set it on the second hole from the tail. This will give you a powder orientated setup. I also think this is a compromise for all conditions BUT it depends on the board.

 

( Leave two holes and set it on the third hole from the tail. Bit easier coming from a shorter board, and try it on-piste first to get used to the longer board.

 

THE DISK

 

The disk you use to fix your binding to the board. There are a few designs on the market.

Generally, you use it to get the toe/heel in the right position. Use can use it to further make adjustments to your stance width and set back. This is done by positioning the slot in NORTH-SOUTH or EAST-WEST orientation.

Some disks can do both.

 

If you guys have any good tips, wanna have a few words, please do post them.

[Thundercat 60]

I'm afraid reading this is going to make me want to buy another board!! Keep the tips coming.

[Thundercat 60]

Quote:

(3)Don´t get sucked into new technology. There are great boards from few years back that could be bought at a good price

I couldn't agree with this more! I have a 2007 Burton Fish and it's an incredible board. I rode the 2009 model and didn't like it as much... I wonder what I'd think about this year's Fish with the s-rocker.

[panhead_pete 27]

BM what size fish are you on?

[Thundercat 60]

 

Its this really styling 156cm board!

[Jynxx 4]

Nice

 

All you need for Niseko pow and trees

[grazza 2]

Very interesting. I'm just about to set up my new (and first) freeride board for launching in 4 days time, so this is timely.

 

A question. When you measure the stance width, what points on the board do you measure from and to (if that makes sense)?

[Thundercat 60]

Usually there are markings on the board or a 'factory' recommended stance width. I'd say start from there to figure out what you are comfortable with.

[panhead_pete 27]

Thanks mate, looks like a cracker. Short too.

 

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

I'm afraid reading this is going to make me want to buy another board!! Keep the tips coming.

 

Yep...

[Thundercat 60]

Cheers Pete, it's recommended that the Fish be 6cms shorter than your typical board. I was actually a bit worried at the size because I'm 6 foot and 80kgs but it's a great fit for me.

[panhead_pete 27]

Perfect mate, Im not quite that tall but am that heavy so will put one on the Xmas list.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

Cheers Pete, it's recommended that the Fish be 6cms shorter than your typical board. I was actually a bit worried at the size because I'm 6 foot and 80kgs but it's a great fit for me.

Good heads up there, usually ride a 162, and looking into a new board.

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: grazza

Very interesting. I'm just about to set up my new (and first) freeride board for launching in 4 days time, so this is timely.

A question. When you measure the stance width, what points on the board do you measure from and to (if that makes sense)?

grazza, like BM said or simply measure from the middle of your feet / half way between the toe and heel when your bindings are set on the board.
I know that´s not a precise method but the whole point is to be aware of how wide your stance is when you are on the board.
If you are a big bloke over 180cm (6ft) I´d say you wanna have 24 inches stance width eventually, when you are riding a mid 160´s length board.
If riding a 156 length short/wide powder board, 22 inch is good.

Some boards just don´t have holes for wider stance.
I like to have 22- 22 1/2 and if I get a longer board, I might even go 23. I have long legs for a japanese.
With my Atomic, I can go 22 max. stance. BUT, I use this board for powder so I intentionally drop my stance to 20 (by moving my nose-side binding) to shift the CENTER OF STANCE one inch to the tail.

I re-checked my duck stance angle and is +21/-15 . I move this, too.
The pic I posted above have +15/-9. I got my Mrs. to convert to duck a few years back and this is what she found comfty.
Perhaps it may be for you, too, when you widen up your stance.

[Thundercat 60]

I knew this thread would be trouble for me! I was just out at the shop and found an Atomic Radon V Tail 159cm tucked away in the back buried behind a bunch of boards. It's marked down to 39,000Â¥. I was there to buy xmas presents for my wife but am now thinking about a little present for me... I really don't need it though... ho hum!

[Thundercat 60]

Damn... now I just found it on Rakuten for 33,000Â¥...

[panhead_pete 27]

If you see a fish cheap please holler

[Tubby Beaver 209]

whats the thinking behind the -6cms shorter on the fish?

[Jynxx 4]

BM, don´t do it. It´s not worth it.

Your fish is PRIMO.

I got the Radon V tail for 160 Euro, about 17000 YEN.

[Jynxx 4]

Tubby the idea is:

For the same surface area, you can make the board wide instead of long.

Also by making the nose bigger that would add surface area to where you want it most.

They make it into a pin shape. This fish has 30mm less width in the tail. Combine that with a 3 inch setback, you can make your tail sink ( without leaning on your back leg that you will feel leg burn) resulting in the nose lifting up so you don´t dig into the powder.

The shorter length makes it easy to do short turns in trees.

 

The nose width on these "short/wide powder boards" are 10~20 mm wider and the waist over 5mm wider compare to typical freeride boards.

 

When you look at this Fish, there is this big taper (30mmm) Pin shape, hence there is no need to have any rocker for powder.

Actually, if the tail sinks (whether pin or swallow), you don´t need any rocker.

 

Remember don´t get sucked into:

I gotta have "this, this, and that ..." and the manufacturers are just doing that to satisfy you. Package all the tech into a bundle.

[Jynxx 4]

O.K

New tip and discussion.

When you get on a longer freeride board, I really like to get the slack out of the boot-binding-board connection. It gives you better control and precision.

What I mean is this;

Boot - After wearing it for a few seasons, the boot gets looser. Some people compensate this by wearing thicker socks but I advice against it. Thinner socks is much better to get foot-boot contact.

So, how do you get the slack out? You need to put stuff in between the shell and liner. Question is, what do you use? Anyone found anything good?

Some people like to wear really stiff boots. If you are a heavy weight, reckon it´s not a bad idea.

 

Binding- Yeah, any bindings with aluminum is stiff.

But all-Al bindings are quite expensive. I have a 3 year old Drake Czar which is a freestyle binding and has a aluminum heel cup. It´s quite stiff.

Bought myself another binding this year, It´s last year´s Rome Arsenal. Highly recommended. Much stiffer than this years model.

[Jynxx 4]

On the safety issue,

Get yourself a back protector.

You will get slammed. You are going faster. There are hidden rocks and stumps under the snow...

I have a Komperdell. It doesn´t have that hard plastic spine but has higher shock absorption rating. Very comfty and keeps me warm. I recommend it.

 

Add to that, Volley ball/ hand ball knee pads and elbow pads.

[panhead_pete 27]

Now you tell me!! Oh how I wish i had some elbow pads when I was in Austria...

[Jynxx 4]

Well, sorry Pete. But you have been snowboarding longer than me!

 

But I did tell you this, which is Today´s Tip ...

 

Carry strong pain killers on you. Ibuprofain or if you have some prescription strength ones from last time.

If you have a splint (it´s rigid but flexible enough to shape it) and compression bandage, put it in your pack.

 

The first aid at the resort is not allowed to give you pain killers.

You will be waiting at the hospital for 2 hrs wondering why they don´t give you pain killers while waiting.

Only to confirm that you have/haven´t a broken bone and plaster you up.

[grazza 2]

Sheeet.

 

This thread got super pessismistic all of a sudden.

 

It seems only yesterday that you were all giving me visions of slicing giant carves down pristine white powder fields on my new stick, and now I'm sitting in ER with bones sticking from my forearm trying to convince an officious Japanese nurse who doesn't understand my screams of pain and my urgent need for morphine. Lighten up, please...