Next season - let's remember this

[NoFakie 45]

Happo's website says nothing in English but in Japanese clearly says "when there is snow" next to the open date.

 

I bet no-one came to Hakuba from o/s in November because of Happo's (conditional, remember) open date. I'm sure some people will have turned up in the past couple of days because the odd one or two usually do, but the resorts opened today anyway. The season has started.

 

If people turned up from o/s in Nozawa "weeks ago" to ski, I would blame the accom they are at more than the resort. The resort's principal aim is to get Japanese punters in who'll know what they mean. If the accom is warning people sufficiently but they come anyway, well, what can you do.

[iiyamadude 6]

Just to reply to your points

 

- Happo's website sucks for providing detailed up to date information in any case. But they certainly were way clearer in terms of "when there's snow".

 

- Nozawa's site didn't. It had a massive banner graphic proclaiming the opening on 21st, right up to 2 days before. A bit like pie's actually.

 

- I didn't say "weeks ago". I said two weeks after the Grand Opening (which was 3 weeks ago). People were here two weeks after the Grand Opening.

[Thundercat 60]

Originally Posted By: pie-eater

Jynxx. Just have to say, I only often understand a little part of what you write, but when I do it often makes me laugh. So thank you for the entertainment, you nutty fruitcake, you.

Quote:

What confuses people in your case, Jynxx, is that they simply can't work out what your perma-stoned-like nonsense means. Not because they are silly, after all many of us here in Japan are used to filtering bad English and squeezing a meaning out of it, but coz it be utter nonsense.
I agree with pie, though, it's quite amusing

Weird, I always understand everything Jynxx writes, and he definitely seems like a dude I would get along with. Funny too! Maybe it's because we are both perma- stoners (eh, GG?)!

[grungy-gonads 54]

Perhaps indeed!

You don't talk bollocks though BM, and write understandable English.

So perhaps not.

[nagpants 1]

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

I hate suggesting this but I think the problem may be that the resort in Nozawa has ties that are too close with the community... I can't think of any other reason that a resort would post unrealistic opening dates.

Good point that.

Not many places have wildly out, it doesn't make sense to.

[igloo 3]

Didn't it used to be run by the village, but now by a company. Even if the company has close village ties?

[Go Native 70]

To me this whole argument is kind of ridiculous. The opening of the resorts is not conditional on snow, the opening of their lifts is. If you can't get your head around that then you're an idiot

 

I would say most Japanese know this and if foreigners do not then there's resources like this site where they can get the information. Can't say that I have ever gone on a holiday somewhere that I haven't researched fairly extensively. If there are those that do then they have no one but themselves to blame if reality doesn't meet their expectations.

[nippontiger 8]

Its pretty much guaranteed that, the one year the resorts decide to move their opening dates to a more sensible two weeks later, it will absolutley dump with snow two weeks earlier than usual, nowhere will be open and the rest of the season will be mild and rainy.

[s3phis 0]

Originally Posted By: igloo

Didn't it used to be run by the village, but now by a company. Even if the company has close village ties?

It's a company that's basically run by the village.

[Error404 0]

Can you explain more please?

It doesn't own accommodations does it?

[Slippery Jim 65]

Let me get this straight: a ski resort can be open with no lifts.

 

Somehow, I get the feeling that I've wandered into SnowNorthKorea.com, and George Orwell is over in the corner going

[Go Native 70]

Where are you from SJ? This concept isn't one I find unusual at all. Just wondering where people are from that find this so hard to understand.

[Slippery Jim 65]

In ski terms, GN, I'm from Tokyo, given that I never skied before arriving here, and my first eight seasons were all exclusively in Japan. But I've skied pretty extensively in North America, and ski resorts there don't claim to be `open' before the lifts are running.

No offense, but you sound a lot like that mayor in ``Jaws'' talking about how wonderful things are on the island while Roy Scheider was closing down the beach for shark attacks!

A ski resort is a resort where you ski (or snowboard). If there's no skiing available, it ain't a ski resort.

NASPA could have powder 5 meters deep, but it still wouldn't be a snowboard resort.

If you sold somebody a Porsche then delivered it with the transmission missing, do you think arguing that technically you held up your end of the deal would fly?

[Slippery Jim 65]

And just for comparison, here's the announcement of opening day at Jackson Hole, apparently posted on or before Nov 23:

 

Top to bottom, wall to wall: Jackson Hole Mountain Resort will open on Saturday, Nov. 27. Some lifts and terrain openings may be delayed because of the continuous and heavy snowfall. We’re excited for a great start to the season. Stay tuned for more updates.

 

(God, please keep this La Nina running til I get there on Feb. 5!)

 

I'm not trying to draw any direct comparison of Jackson Hole & Niseko (that would hardly be fair) other than to point out that the resort gave a specific opening date only when it knew the lifts would be running.

[Go Native 70]

The issue for you though is in your mind 'open' appears only to be associated with lifts running. There's a lot more to a resort than just the lifts and just skiing. Once you get your head around the idea that the opening date for the winter season is not actually associated with whether there is enough snow or not then you'll have no issue with it. It's the way it is here. The Yanks do it differently? Good on em!

 

It's not about telling anyone how wonderful the skiing is early season (when it's often not) because that is not what I or I think anyone is doing. I just don't get why it's so hard to understand that the opening dates for the resorts are set pretty much each year and they have an openinig ceremony on that date each year regardless of whether there is snow or not. The actual opening of lifts is dependent on snow.

 

It's not an attempt to be deliberately misleading it's just the way they've always done it.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Thanks so much for explaining my mental processes to me. Very enlightening, I must say.

Let me return the favor:

Once you get your head around the idea that marketing jargon is not the way the rest of the world speaks, you'll have no problem understanding that people coming to an `open' ski resort expect to be able to ski. Industry shills speak a different language? Good on em!

 

It's not about getting the local Shinto dude to wave his fly whisk around, that's not what I or anyone else booking a ski vacation thinks is opening day. I don't get why it's so hard to understand that.

 

I don't think you're deliberately misleading people, but a lot of what you say here re Niseko, its snow and its terrain smacks of marketing. Like in another thread where you imply Niseko has loads of steep runs ``if people know where to go.'' That's at best as much an exaggeration as the silly claims that Niseko is flat.

 

I certainly understand the problem of wearing two hats and sometimes forgetting to switch, but take a deep breath and remind yourself when you log into the forums that you're not on the job.

[Jynxx 4]

This is silly.

Japan is a country that has lots of Grand Opening days. Pachinko parlours, Love Hotels, Discos, Restaurants, Ski resorts ... you name it. Often, what renovation they did is obscure (to call it a grand opening) and maybe just a new management dude went in.

As for ski resorts, we have a Shinto priest come and do Oharai, asking the gods for a good season and no one gets hurt. It´s a yearly ceremony. That is one definition that most of us understand in Japan.

Some Japanese resorts have different opening procedures.

I recommend that people adapt accordingly after initial confusion.

 

Ski resorts come with lifts. Not only that. Even if we stick to snow-related-facilities, like we can have a snow park, cross-country run... These may or may not be open even the resort is open.

The lifts may be closed due to wind. Even on a good day, maybe 2 out of 16 lifts can be operating.

 

Consider an opening day scenario...Are you gonna make a big scene on a very stormy day so the lifts cannot go up to the top where the only snow is, but no wind and no snow where we are having a opening ceremony? I doubt it.

And even this will not make many people happy that there are only one small area operating to call this place open.

 

[thursday 1]

Originally Posted By: oo

niseko open today anyone

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Nope, no lifts will run this weekend.

[Go Native 70]

^ well at this late stage I assumed he meant lifts

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Thanks so much for explaining my mental processes to me. Very enlightening, I must say.
Let me return the favor:
Once you get your head around the idea that marketing jargon is not the way the rest of the world speaks, you'll have no problem understanding that people coming to an `open' ski resort expect to be able to ski. Industry shills speak a different language? Good on em!

It's not about getting the local Shinto dude to wave his fly whisk around, that's not what I or anyone else booking a ski vacation thinks is opening day. I don't get why it's so hard to understand that.

I don't think you're deliberately misleading people, but a lot of what you say here re Niseko, its snow and its terrain smacks of marketing. Like in another thread where you imply Niseko has loads of steep runs ``if people know where to go.'' That's at best as much an exaggeration as the silly claims that Niseko is flat.

I certainly understand the problem of wearing two hats and sometimes forgetting to switch, but take a deep breath and remind yourself when you log into the forums that you're not on the job.

I'd say there is your whole problem. You think the 'open' thing is marketing jargon when all it is is the traditional opening date for the resort. You know what the Japanese are like once something has been done a certain way for long enough that's the way they will always do it. The other thing is you seem to think we involved in western owned businesses might have some say in the opening date which of course we don't. It's not our marketing jargon as you put it, nothing we can do about it. In Niseko only Hirafu puts out an opening date of 21 Nov. The western owned areas of the resort Hanazono and Niseko Village do not. In fact they never plan on opening any earlier than around 6 Dec. The 21 Nov opening date is mainly a big ceremony to open the resort for the season. Sometimes there's enough snow and sometimes not for the lifts to run.

Also when referring to steep terrain I actually said the Niseko region not Niseko resort. There is some excellent backcountry terrain in this region. Some of it very steep. If you don't know about it well that's not my fault. Believe me after 7 years here full time I probably know the region a little better than you.

And the two hats comment is ridiculous. I don't own any business or property in Niseko and am on a salary so there's nothing to be gained for myself by promoting the region. I promote it purely because I love it. And if you can show me stats of better average snowfalls and powder days than this resort please do. I'll go live there! I've met a lot of people here over the years who have spent lifetimes working in snowfields around the world. And pretty much every single one of them has told me Niseko has the most consistent powder skiing they have ever experienced. I've done a fair bit of skiing around the world myself. When I talk about the snow here it's not marketing jargon or hype, it's just the truth from my experience.

I do own a business in Hakodate though and if you haven't been it is without doubt the most amazing city in all of Japan! YOu must go!!

[RobBright 35]

Ok I have a solution to this.

 

How about let Japanese people celebrate their "grand open", BUT if anyone enquiries about if there is enough snow, then refer them to the daily reports on snowjapan?

[panhead_pete 27]

Opening day - if there is snow go get turns then drink, no snow - drink. Pretty easy equation, no matter how far you have traveled.

[Jynxx 4]

Now, THAT makes sense

 

 

Interesting comment you made there Slippery Jim...

quote/ ..marketing jargon is not the way the rest of the world speaks ../unquote

 

Actually that´s not true.

Politicians.

As recent, the Poms are having a riot cos the politicians didn´t keep their own marketing promise of not raising tuition fees.

 

Marketing influence people´s psychology.

Look back and read what SJ-David said about what becomes real in people´s mind and that being influenced by words -

such as: Hype

 

"Suggestions" were a classic method of advertising.

That word is now replaced by "Marketing"

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Actually that´s not true.
Politicians. As recent, the Poms are having a riot cos the politicians didn´t keep their own marketing promise of not raising tuition fees.

Slight mistake there... one party said they would, the other part of the coalition said they wouldn't. The overall majority said they would, yet still got into power.

But besides that, suggestions and marketing pretty much go hand in hand, as you say.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Let me get this straight: a ski resort can be open with no lifts.

Not according to any of the ski area websites I check regularly, where "オープン" is used to mean "lifts have started running." If there is not enough snow by the originally planned opening date, then the opening is "delayed" (延期). I have never seen a ski area call itself "open" or "オープン" when there are not actually lifts running.

That said, the ski areas themselves seem to be pretty upfront about conditions and prospects, many having daily blogs and slopeside webcams. (And even warnings like, "We're open, but watch out for the bare patches, and don't bring your good skis!") I would expect the ski areas to try to be ready near the early end of the yearly-fluctuating openable range, which is what they seem to do.

I also would expect that most early-season customers are typically hardcore, "shoot, I'll ski anything, just give me something!" types, who spend autumn monitoring all ski areas within daytrip distance to be ready to go whenever possible. (I count myself among this sad and desperate bunch, as evidenced by my three days' worth of trip reports already this season -- which is why I have become familiar with what ski areas within my broadly-defined local region consider to be "open.")

Visitors from overseas do not have this luxury, of course, usually having to make plans months in advance (excepting panhead_pete, apparently ). In their case, it is probably up to hotels to manage their expectations, especially if they are new to skiing and boarding in general. GN gives good examples of how to handle that.

Hoping I haven't offended anybody here.