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SJ-David. you are taking it too personally.

Of course, WE as posters are full of hype as is.

Example, `Hakuba is better than Niseko.´ `Japan is better than blah blah,´ `no it´s not !´

Bottomless pow. Isn´t that a hype ?

 

People read the forum. That is the hype. Word of mouth info by posters and real info as provide by the source - there is a difference.

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Ok I will throw this into the mix.

 

In Australia if we have an open day wouldn't the resort make sure there is snow for the people who are paying the hard earned for? ie: snow machines.

 

If I was going to Japan for the fisrt time and spentd a lot of money, being a bit naive couldn't I expect snow whether it be man made or natural?

 

Seemore

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Well, I disagree with your 'taking it too personally' comment Jynxx.

 

First of all you are talking about the Forums but the Forums make up only a small part of our 'site'.

 

When people throw comments like that out (and how easy is it to do that?!) whether it's on our site or elsewhere, people reading it - as you say yourself - tend to take it in and in some peoples mind it becomes true.

 

We work very hard NOT to make our site full of hype, more than you and anyone really knows. It's a decision we have made on how we run SnowJapan.

 

Yes some people do try to post 'hype' on the Forums, but we aren't mad keen on when it goes overboard, as you no doubt know.

 

So forgive me for defending what we do here - after all the work we do to make sure it isn't, we do not want people to get the impression that it is.

 

friend

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Originally Posted By: seemore
Ok I will throw this into the mix.

In Australia if we have an open day wouldn't the resort make sure there is snow for the people who are paying the hard earned for? ie: snow machines.

If I was going to Japan for the fisrt time and spentd a lot of money, being a bit naive couldn't I expect snow whether it be man made or natural?

Seemore


Very few resorts in Japan have snowmaking. And a number of resorts in Australia have very limited snowmaking. In the days before the big resorts in Aus invested millions in snowmaking it was quite normal to not have any skiing on the opening weekend. Now in Aus you get to pay some of the highest lift prices in the world for the great privalege of getting to ski on icy man made snow until nature delivers the goods. Lucky you! razz
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No need to apologize.

I have touched a raw spot, no doubt, and I will remember your concern.

I still think that it is personal to you and hence you take so much care and dedication to this site. I actually like that smile thumbsup

 

But let me point out that we are not responsible for what/how people think because we are not in the position to educate that.

I can understand impressions people can make on others.

But. there is a point of healthy debate and moderation that´s in your hands. I´m fine with that. But I´m concerned if you emotionally react to a word like hype because there always will be. I think it will benefit everyone to know about it, that it comes up in forums. You are very much appreciated for doing a great job and pointing that out when it pops up.

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I wouldn't call it a 'raw spot', though we certainly are not keen for people to proclaim that we are something that is very different from what we are and what we work towards.

 

I'm pretty sure most people would feel the same if they were in our shoes.

 

And when it's on our own website, we have the chance to correct (for want of a better word!) it. That's what I'm doing now.

 

Ask SJ1, I think you will find he dislikes stuff like this even more.

wink

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seemore: In Japan, it wouldn't be economically feasible as the customers don't really start arriving until around the 20th due to the holidays etc. I can't really speak for many other resorts but most of the time, if you are able to ski in the first half of December, it's basically like having your own private ski resort. It's just not viable to create artificial snow for, like, 5-10 people (sure it's a bit of an exageration but yeah). I mean, if you compare lift prices between Japan and Australia, Japan's almost half price but machine running costs are about the same. I don't have a hand in any part of the management of the actual resort but even from an outside perspective, making snow early would probably result in a fairly big loss.

 

Of course, if there are enough foreign tourists to offset the costs for the earlybirds, then resorts would seriously consider the options.

 

I think probing into what people are expecting and when would be something I'd think would help in making business decisions. To go off on a tangent... I don't think Japanese companies are very good at collecting information and analysing data before making business propositions. I always have a saying that the Japanese companies that are actually making money are the ones with gaijin CEOs >_>;... but that's a personal gripe I've had that's waaaaay off topic ^_^;

 

With regards to opening days etc, I don't think the resorts really acknowledge it as a problem. This isn't to say that your experiences aren't worth their time or anything, quite the opposite but rather that the issues haven't been conveyed across. Like I said earlier, I don't actually have much to do with the resort itself or the accomodations etc but I can absolutely understand people's dissapointment if their holidays aren't what they had hoped it'd be. If you really want to make a difference, I think rather than letting off steam here, it'd be better to organise an effort to let the resorts know how it's affecting you.

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Interesting thread this has become.

 

Being able to ski in the first half of December and having the resort to yourself isn't quite the point though. Back to the main point, it is resorts boldly claiming that they will open in November, when the chances of that happening are slim to none.

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You missed my point, it wasn't about having the resort to yourself but a response to why the ski resorts in Japan wouldn't deploy artificial snow early in the season as there's just not enough people to justify the increased costs.

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You missed my point, it wasn't about deploying artificial snow or not, it was about resorts boldly claiming that they will be opening 21st November year after year when it is simply unrealistic.

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It's only unrealistic if you have the expectation that there will be skiable snow on the scheduled opening dates. I think it's been clearly pointed out by everyone that this is not a realistic expectation in Japan. Once you recognise that then there's no issue.

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And just to show that we in the industry aren't all unscrupulous in our dealings with customer expectations, below is an email I sent to a customer enquiring to come in mid April

 

Quote:
Thanks for your enquiry to stay with us next Spring.

Before quoting an apartment I’d just like to make sure you are aware of a few things regarding the period you will be here.

From 6 April the Niseko Village and Hanazono ski areas will close for the season and the Annupuri and Hirafu ski areas will only have limited lift operation, regardless of how much snow is left. Also most of the services that you can find during the main part of the season will have ceased operation including ski schools, hire equipment, free shuttle buses and many restaurants and bars will have closed.

It’s not a bad time of year to come but you definitely need to be much more self sufficient than during the main part of the season.

With this in mind please advise if you would still like to come from 10 April.

 

Now I could easily just have quoted the accommodation without saying any of that but one of the most important things we need to do in hospitality is attempt to manage customer expectations or we can end up with a whole lot of very unhappy customers who won't book through us again. This customer has now booked with us in March instead of April. I've sent many similar emails to customers who have booked very early season. We're not in the business of creating unrealistic hype just for the sake of making money. We do try and manage peoples expectations and do try and give them a realistic idea of what things will be like. Just causes a whole lot more problems for us if we don't.

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Aside from the somewhat unrealistic opening date of Nozawa, how many other resorts really get the opening wrong? Do other sj-ers out there think this is wide spread problem? TBH, I haven't noticed many misguided opening date announcements.

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When I checked the Kagura opening date a while back, Im sure it listed the opening date and then said "yotei" after it - meaning planned. It just seemed like common sense to me that, being early season, they meant "we will open on this date if there is enough snow to do so."

It seems perfectly reasonable to me, for a resort to give an optimistic opening date, bearing in mind that the snow may well arrive early. If they give a later date and the snow arrives early, they may well not be ready to open, customers will be complaining they cant ski and the resort will lose a load of money.

If you book travel and accommodation to go skiing pretty much anywhere in the world, right at the beginning of the season then you are risking there being no snow. Its just common sense.

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I reckon they should say maybe Grand Opening on 20th September!!!!!!! Or maybe the beginning of September, coz it's always slack round that time.

They could use more !!! to emphasise how simply ace that is.

That way, they would pack in more unsuspecting 'dickheads' who don't know better.

And make more cash!!!

thumbsup

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Want to apologize to Go Native for what I realize appeared like a personal attack. It wasn't supposed to read that way, and I think I got a bit carried away. Beer on me next month, GN, to make amends.

 

That said, calling potential customers idiots just ain't best practice, mate!

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Now now guys, the snow isn't falling yet. Obviously things will be a bit touchy when nobody can shred the light pow. It is on its way! fear not. I have the faith. I wouldn't be leaving behind the best Nov/Dec Utah has seen if I didn't believe so.

 

Here's to an exciting season and tons of good people in Niseko cheers

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Numbskulls.

They should be consulting all sorts of resources before asking such silly questions, I reckon.

How could someone possibly be so stupid!

Fools indeed.

slap

 

So Nozawa will open tomorrow, 3 weeks late.

 

As the original thread title said "next season - let's remember this".

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