Drug addiction

[its-a-clock 0]

I know people who have been brought up in some very unfortunate circumstances but have got their act together, made real positive efforts and fought against those circumstances and become successful and happy people. (Just to be clear, young adults, not young kids).

 

Some people use circumstances as an excuse.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: MitchPee

I understand that, but I also understand people that are products of their environment. A lot of people I know that use and abuse heavy drugs are people that have never been given an opportunity in life. It's easy for outsiders to look in and judge.

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree that people are products of their environment. It's just too easy an excuse for people to use. Behaviourism at its worst.

I have found people who are heavily into drugs are trying to more often than not, escape from something they are unhappy with, be it their life, job or relationships, perhaps because they are scared to do something about it?

[its-a-clock 0]

Quote:

never been given an opportunity in life

Why not go out and try to make one.

[gerard 6]

I can't imagine what it would be like to grow up in poverty with negligent or abusive and/or junkie parents and no positive role models whatsoever in an otherwise rich materialistic society...

 

But anyway, I guess Amy Winehouse shouldn't come here looking for sympathy.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: its-a-clock

Quote:

never been given an opportunity in life

Why not go out and try to make one.

It's typical of people who expect everything to be handed to them on a plate in life, to complain that they have never been given an opportunity in life.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

that is all environmental factors though Rob. While I do agree with you, its often because they can't see a way out or a path through their troubles. They don't know how to go about changing their life and the path of less resistance is the drug/junkie down and out way. This is then a self-feeding cycle because they can blame everything on the things they didn't have, the things they didn't get that society is now eager to label them with. I see both sides, but in my experience with kids, I can see where its leading to and I think its sad that through no fault of their own, these young kids are already socially handicapped and the chances of them breaking the cycle is very low.

[RobBright 35]

But then surely any kids with a lack of direction are more susceptible to succumb to drugs?

 

At my old secondary school, there were people who had opportunities to better themselves but still ended up destroying their lives through drugs.

[Go Native 70]

It's all a bit easy just to lay blame on people for how their lives have turned out and to suggest that they should just find some way to turn things around and they are weak if they cannot.

When I worked in the max security prison I obviously came into contact with 1000's of men whose lives were pretty stuffed up and certainly one of the main factors I found among criminals and especially drug users was that they almost never took responsibility for their actions or predicament. They almost always blamed others or society as a whole for what had happened in their lives.

 

Still I didn't blame them totally and as TB points out some grow up in truly atrocious circumstances. Many have never learned the skills required to fit into normal society having grown up in households full of violence and drugs. To suggest it's totally their fault that they couldn't break out and really make a go of things is ridiculous. So many factors can lead people into things like drug addiction from environmental to genetic predisposition and mental illness. It's definitely not a level playing field out there where everyone has the same opportunities in this life.

 

My own point of view is that our current predaliction to blame drug users and turn them into criminals is the worst way to deal with the problems of drug use. It does nothing to help with the reasons behind their use. Addicts need a lot of help and if our western societies spent a little more on prevention and assistance than policing and incarceration I think we'd see much better results.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

yeah they are. and there are a lot of kids who didn't come from deprived backgrounds who also end up squirting their life into their veins. My point being that its extremely difficult for kids to break out of that cycle. If you haven't known anything else, everyone around you is doing it, to say no and take a different path is very difficult. I'm not trying to justify why they do it, when you see where they come from it at least lets you understand why they've fallen into this spiral of self destruction.

 

I used to work with kids who would always be in trouble in class, teachers shouting at them because they didn't do their homework, they aren't in school uniform, they came in late. School was WAAAY down their list of priorities, for some of them they didn't know if they would eat that day. They didn't know if they'd go home to find their mum in bed with a different guy. The fact that some of these kids turned up to school at all was a miracle. the fact is that, even although these real needy kids would all swear blind they hated school, we were the only stable structure they had in their life. Without being too over dramatic, it was a sanctuary for them. They could come in and be kids for a while.

[Nisoko 6]

Quote:

To suggest it's totally their fault that they couldn't break out and really make a go of things is ridiculous.

Who said that?

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: grungy-gonads

I'm pretty sure I said I had some sympathy for people in such unfortunate situations.

I apologize that was meant at Rob, sorry.

Yeah, Rob I agree that excuses should never be the answer. I am not talking about drug users that have no reason to fall into the spiral of decline like you mentioned. I am with you for blaming them. However, the way to a solution is not condemnation of it but fixing the context of the problem. So in order to stop drug abuse broken homes need to be fixed...etc.

The problem is strictly structural.

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

My own point of view is that our current predaliction to blame drug users and turn them into criminals is the worst way to deal with the problems of drug use. It does nothing to help with the reasons behind their use. Addicts need a lot of help and if our western societies spent a little more on prevention and assistance than policing and incarceration I think we'd see much better results.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

The self medicating/mental illness thing is a very valid point.

Mental illness is WAY more common than we think. And for no particular reason can leave people feeling sad, lonely depressed and hating them selves - a hit can suddenly make them feel happier and more confident, so they continue to use - and then can't get off it.

I think that is sad.

As much as it is sad for the abused kid offered drugs by their families.

 

But much like the out of control/mentally ill/compulsive fatties - it also angers me at the same time.

 

I struggle to find the right mix of frustration and anger, and compassion and understanding.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Mamabear

I struggle to find the right mix of frustration and anger, and compassion and understanding.

I think most of us are the same, MB

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

Originally Posted By: Mamabear

I struggle to find the right mix of frustration and anger, and compassion and understanding.

I think most of us are the same, MB

Yup, I think the most important thing is to never judge anyone outright until you hear their side...then decide for yourself.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Addicts need a lot of help and if our western societies spent a little more on prevention and assistance than policing and incarceration I think we'd see much better results.

All when and good until you become a victim of crime yourself. If my Granny was shoved to the ground and left with a broken hip, ending her mobility for life, all for a few dollars in her purse, then I'd like to see his sorry arse in jail and have little sympathy for them or the circumstances that brought them to that point.
Personal accountability has to come into it somewhere and like you said GN. They all have someone or something else to blame.
To be fair, drug education has a pretty high profile in Oz. Much higher than when I was a kid.

Or are you talking about de-criminalising drug use and not about drug related crime?

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

All when and good until you become a victim of crime yourself. If my Granny was shoved to the ground and left with a broken hip, ending her mobility for life, all for a few dollars in her purse, then I'd like to see his sorry arse in jail and have little sympathy for them or the circumstances that brought them to that point.

Absolutely. I'm sure some more liberally minded (on this issue)(dude) people would quickly change their tune if a loved one became the victim of some crazed up addict.

[panhead_pete 27]

People can choose to stop and stop they can. Some need help to do that, others dont. But that 1st step must be taken.

 

The big change in the last 10 years has been Meth. Before that it was mostly herion but the thing with smackers is that they shoot up and go on the nod. When they run short there might be an armed robbery, maybe a mugging but that was pretty much it.

 

Meth is the opposite with very violent interactions with the general public when they are high. Im not sure if its still the case but it was reported Perth WA had the highest average number of users on the planet. Look at the mess Nightbridge has become and the law etc keep blaming drinking. Its the meth that is the root cause.

 

Ironically busting people for exctasy is seen as a great thing, funny but the only hassle Ive ever had in a big rave style club is everyone wanting to tell me their life story

 

TB my heart goes out to you mate, that experience must be terrible.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps

Originally Posted By: Mantas

All when and good until you become a victim of crime yourself. If my Granny was shoved to the ground and left with a broken hip, ending her mobility for life, all for a few dollars in her purse, then I'd like to see his sorry arse in jail and have little sympathy for them or the circumstances that brought them to that point.

Absolutely. I'm sure some more liberally minded (on this issue)(dude) people would quickly change their tune if a loved one became the victim of some crazed up addict.

I don't think they would. I think they'd want the junkie put in prison like anyone else, their tune wouldn't change as to this issue though. Thats a side issue than what we've been talking about, drug related crime isn't what we've been talking about. I for one would want to see that person locked up, they have committed a terrible crime against an innocent person and they deserve what the law gives them. GN's point is that he doesn't think criminalising drug users, for simply being drug users, is in any way productive.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Quote:

I'm sure some more liberally minded (on this issue)(dude) people would quickly change their tune if a loved one became the victim of some crazed up addict.

Quote:

I don't think they would

.

Bet they would.
In fact, I have seen that exactly thing happen myself.
Kid stabbed and killed by some dude on heroin in London. Died.
Father quickly changed tune.

Some people are oh so vocal shouting about their oh so liberal values and outlook on things like this - something happen close to home and there's a quick change in priorities.

Not everyone of course.
Note in my original post I said "some".

----

Sorry for bringing up a "side issue" though.
Nowt to do with it hey.
My bad.

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps

Originally Posted By: Mantas

All when and good until you become a victim of crime yourself. If my Granny was shoved to the ground and left with a broken hip, ending her mobility for life, all for a few dollars in her purse, then I'd like to see his sorry arse in jail and have little sympathy for them or the circumstances that brought them to that point.

Absolutely. I'm sure some more liberally minded (on this issue)(dude) people would quickly change their tune if a loved one became the victim of some crazed up addict.

I can't speak for GN, but I'm pretty sure we are both talking about incarceration for drug usage...not people who perform violent crimes while on drugs.

I would love to see the statistics, but most of the people I know that use hard drugs would never run the risk of committing a violent crime.

[Mantas 3]

Decriminalization of drug use is a prickly issue.

 

Alcohol, or more accurately the use of alcohol, is responsible for so many problems in western society, yet it completely legal and readily available. No one seems to question this because 'getting pissed' is part of our culture.

[gerard 6]

Yep. Alcohol. It has a huge range of unpredictable effects depending on the person and how much you consume but tend to include a feeling of euphoria, lapse of judgment and coordination, loss of inhibitions often leading to promiscuity, violent tendencies, vomiting, dehydration, passing out and even death. Plus it's highly addictive. Some conservative-minded people rail agaisnt the incredibly broad category of 'illegal drugs' but turn an almost blind eye towards alcohol.

 

On a personal note, as a parent I'm worried about a lot of things for my children but alcohol ranks up there near the top.

[pie-eater 207]

 

Some conservatively/liberally (*delete as per your rant preference) minded people rail against the incredibly broad category of 'pies' (or something else) but turn a blind eye towards bread (or something else), however unrelated it is.

 

That means you!, so I am right and you are wrong and you are talking about something thats unrelated to what I am talking about and what I want to talk about.

[gerard 6]

Didn't think it was a rant, but OK, whatever.