Going to university/college or not

[RobBright 35]

Yeah, definitely Tex, a gap year helps you to come to terms with the last 14 years of education and what you have achieved. Gives you a chance to step back and perhaps re-assess what you want to do, or where you want to study or work.

[Go Native 70]

Having worked in numerous industries over the years like a packer in an export boning room, a guard in a max security prison, an account executive selling advertising, advertising manager for 2 magazines, running my own landscaping business, property manager and now reservations manager, I've worked with a wide range of people. Many tertiary educated and many not. I have definitely come across this attitude amongst many Aussies (who are not tertiary educated) that somewhat denegrates the value of education, especially higher education. That somehow spending so much time doing academic study leaves people uneducated in the important lessons of the real world. Personally I see it as a defence mechanism more often than not. Older uneducated people can be a little intimidated by younger people whose knowledge far surpasses their own so they seek to find something that puts the youngsters back in their place and eases their own inferiority complexes.

 

Sure I agree that some graduates can have the arrogance of youth thinking they know it all but this is hardly something just restricted to university graduates. And as far as I'm concerened the most valuable thing that higher education can give you is the ability to know how to learn. Sure a 25 year old just completing a doctorate will not be as experienced in the 'real' world as someone who has been working since they were 16. They definitely have some catching up to do but I reckon they are far better equipped to handle change and be open to new experiences than the average uneducated person ever would be.

[panhead_pete 27]

GN you hit the nail on the head precisely. Its learning how to learn!

 

Wow what was working in Max like?

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: panhead_pete

Wow what was working in Max like?

An interesting life experience that's for sure!

[Tex 3]

It's pretty broad brush you paint with GN.

 

Sure older uneducated people do that but I see older educated people doing it as well, ergo: could be a great deal of truth in it or just the cynicism that comes with age.

 

"whose knowledge far surpasses their own" very emotive, but what a beat up. As if Like a uni degree ever gave anyone 'knowledge that far surpasses' that of someone older working in any given industry for years that may or may not have a degree, except MAYBE on one particular subject or in post grad studies of some type. Even university's these days tell you it is not about knowledge but identifying REAL WORLD issues and application of said knowledge which is always enhanced (even if gained) with experience.

 

Besides anyone who can remember all but the remotest details of the subjects from their first year of study at graduation must be an aforesaid weirdo

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Tex

Even university's these days tell you it is not about knowledge but identifying REAL WORLD issues and application of said knowledge which is always enhanced (even if gained) with experience.

I actually have a problem with this though. I believe universities have become too much about preparing people for the 'real world' and less about places of furthering knowledge. People who have learned how to learn can always apply that skill to real workd situations later. Narrowing learning to just making you better prepared for a particular profession is not a great thing in my opinion as it stifles the pursuit of knowledge for it's own sake. But it helps unversities getting private funding to support courses and research which they have had to do since governments have progressively reduced funding for education at the tertiary level.

I grew up in a family of mostly uneducated people and most of my friends from childhood did not go onto tertiary education and also came from families with very few who were tertiary educated. Sure plenty of them were still very successful financially but there was no doubt that my knowledge of the world around me, at least from a scientific viewpoint, far surpassed theirs. Any motivated idiot can make money. We have seen that plenty of that in Niseko with so many of the cashed up bogans coming to ski here!

I also have never been someone who equates age with wisdom or knowledge. Met too many older people who have remained stupid and ignorant throughout their whole lives. Just look at Queensland as a great example of a place stuffed up by too many old people making up the voting public. thursday would be another good example!!

[Tex 3]

I think you are missing the point GN. The substance/content has not changed, variously you are required to learn MORE, be a BETTER researcher. What has changed broadly is assessment. Rather than just regurgitate knowledge you must apply it realistically in practical, substantive and formative assessments, no point in having all the knowledge if you can't apply it: what good is a Doctor with with a 7 GPA but the bedside manner of a bricklayer. Plus application solidifies knowledge learnt and the method used at gaining it. You learn and retain more.

 

So if you have, say a Degree in Science, your knowledge of Science far surpasses that of some random shoe sales man

 

Here I was thinking you meant things with in the same field of study and work/life experience

 

EDIT HA HA I missed your edit before posting mine. The best defence is attack. The Qld public are many things but at least we won the State of Origin (Standing by for attack on contact sports)

[Go Native 70]

I'm not really missing the point of what you're saying. I'm agreeing that a degree in anything doesn't mean you can step into a role right our of uni and expect to know more than someone who has worked in that industry for 30 years (regardless of what level of education they achieved). My main point is that being educated doesn't make it harder or impede your ability to learn quickly and get the experience required to get the job done, it only enhances it.

[Tex 3]

Indeed

[mitchpee 10]

Can't say I have any first hand experience with Aussies interpretation of higher education...

 

However, here in the states my dad dropped out of high school early and my mom graduated with no college. Needless to say I was the first to attempt and succeed at higher education from my family. Empirical thinking has always been somewhat easy to me. Had I applied myself to the school world I would have sustained positions with the same people I was considered equal in with grade school. There were 3 of us that always surpassed any assignment etc. While I began to drift into the more social bubble they stayed in the academia and ended up going to Harvard and MIT on full scholarships. Yet I sit and wonder what may have been, but only before so long because I realized I still came away from a legitimate school with a surpassable GPA and a boatload of social skills that would be applicable anywhere in real life. While my counterparts may have had prestige, I gained confidence in myself and today was intellectually challenged for the first time in ages. Yet, somehow was still able to hold my own ground and explain my thoughts in a decent collaboration of events.

 

Too strawn out, I end here.

[Tex 3]

Yeh sidetracked things a bit there Mitch sorry. Can you enrol and then defer for a year or more for travel? That's what I would do...

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Tex

Yeh sidetracked things a bit there Mitch sorry. Can you enrol and then defer for a year or more for travel? That's what I would do...

Ah I am so good at sidetracking. Please allow me a year for travel. It would be exponential in my finding myself process hahaha.

[Go Native 70]

The thing I've noticed over the years when doing training for a job was I picked up things a lot quicker than those who were not tertiary educated. This of course could be purely due to the fact that I am an incredibly intelligent person but I think it also has to do with the skills I learned in how to learn whilst at uni.

 

I actually took a year off from uni between 2nd and 3rd year. Travelled around Sth America for a fair portion of it.

[Mantas 3]

Well lets face it. Getting into university isn't exactly a choice. You need to have a high level of intelligence just to gain entry in the first place (the definition of intelligence is open to interpretation here)

I'm all in favour of knowledge for knowledge's sake. Ignorance is a dangerous thing, but when the vast majority of the populations uneducated tax payers are funding a large portion of your tertiary education then I think job specific courses are the only fair thing. If you want to pursue knowledge just for knowledge sake, then it's really just a hobby and should be done with your own time and funds.

[panhead_pete 27]

Actually thats called a BA

 

On the flip side its some of those guys that never leave uni and go on to be professors and experts in their field that often come up with the amazing science break throughs that benefit everyone, or is that their grad students?

 

I agree though Mantas its investment by taxpayers. Their investment in me has been repaid many times over through the tax system, not all investments get into the black though.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: panhead_pete

not all investments get into the black though.

Tell me about it. I'm still paying off my wife's uni degree 15 years later. That's largely by choice though, as it is a government subsidized loan and therefore we give it the lowest priority.
I work with highly educated people all the time, some of them brilliant and amaze me with their intelligence, some of them are complete morons that have difficulty getting the simplest of tasks done. They hypothesize, analyze, philosophize and every other 'ize' you could think of, when all the job requires is a practical common sense approach. I figure they got their qualifications because they are good at absorbing information then regurgitating it at exam time.

[@tokyo 14]

Wonder how much loan/debt people left uni with?

 

I left with none, thanks to getting subsidized and doing a bit of work as I studied.

[Mantas 3]

50 or 60k is not unusual here these days.

[Go Native 70]

I never kept track of how much I owed but I know I had it all paid off by the time I was 30. It was nice to get a 6% cut in the tax I was paying!

[JA2340 16]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Well lets face it. Getting into university isn't exactly a choice. You need to have a high level of intelligence just to gain entry in the first place

That's boolscheet. The requirement for entry to university is a certain minimum marks at the entry exam. Nothing more, nothing less!

[grungy-gonads 54]

Perhaps different countries experiencing different situations here.

 

Getting into uni in England has, since I went, been easier in recent years. In a big part because there's tons more "universities" than there used to be.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

yeah same with me GG. I left University with a 6000 pound debt that I took out for no other reason than I wanted to go n holiday every summer. I was staying at home, my dad didn't want any rent (excpet during holidays when I'd often work full time somewhere) and all my fees were pad for by the government. Right now I wish I could go back and tell yself not to bother with the loan as I didn't need it and a little bit more fiscal prudence and I'd be debt free now

[grungy-gonads 54]

Quote:

and all my fees were pad for by the government

Does that happen any more now?
I remember when I went even fairly well off familities got the cash to send kiddies to school for drinking and shagging.

[ShinyDiscoBall 2]

Not much of a loan for me I was pre-mad costs era as well.

Cleared it within 2 years no hassle.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

No GG, I was the last year where taht happened. After that they introduced means testing and then altered it after the uproar so that most people didn't need to contribute BUT it was taken out as a student loan. So my brother is now 16k in debt as opposed to me who is only 5-6k