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OK.

Just watched it.

WOW.

 

I had an idea of what was to come, thanks to this thread, so I was both prepared for the horror, and also the bits it was lacking. The DVD case presents it as a 'movie' - "A cross between Flipper and The Bourne Identity" - if you picked it up expecting that then ... sorry. It is a 100% Documentary, made obviously with the slant toward anti-whaling.

 

While the Japanese side was not explain in depth, the Japanese people involved were partly to blame for that. The reasons for the slaughter were given as 'it is our tradition, however many people were interviewed as not knowing about it happening', it is about pest control - the whales and dolphins are eating too much fish and our fish will run out [umm...helllllooo?!].

 

And the mercury was a shocker - that the meat was being falsely labeled, children were being forced to eat it in school lunches, and people were unaware of the mercury contamination that posed a serious threat to their health - in this day and age - astounding!

 

Is the DVD available in Japan?

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Originally Posted By: Mamabear
While the Japanese side was not explain in depth, the Japanese people involved were partly to blame for that. The reasons for the slaughter were given as 'it is our tradition, however many people were interviewed as not knowing about it happening', it is about pest control - the whales and dolphins are eating too much fish and our fish will run out [umm...helllllooo?!].


But interview 100 people and you are always going to get 80 numbskulls.
The people who edit the film presumably chose what they wanted to be in there so if you want the Japanese side to come across as doh then it will be so!
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Oh I understand that KK.

But I have yet to see an adequate rebuttal. The statements made by the officials were also not factual, and did not present any compelling evidence to support what they do and reduce my outrage. Yes. It was one sided.

 

Let's hear the other side.

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Japanese arguements for what though? wakaranai

 

Other than false labelling and eating poisonous food (which isn't what the uproar of this docu is about), I don't think they have to "argue" anything. The dolphins are not endangered, as far as I'm aware the actual killing isn't illegal and doesn't contravene any international treaties. The uproar is because people find it distatseful and that, in my opinion, isn't adequate to warrant the condemnation.

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The mercury poisoning and mislabeling might not have been the focus issue of the Doco but it was dealt with all the way through - I would think it is perhaps an even bigger world issue than is the cull itself - the willful and deceptive endangerment of citizens.

 

The simple truth is that if the demand for dolphin meat (which is often passed off as whale, and was dumped on the unsuspecting school kids) was gone, then the cull would likely stop also. Although with reasons such as "pest control" being given...maybe I am being far too generous.

 

The slaughter of the dolphins is something I wouldn't want to see in any animals. I object if my chicken or cows are killed in such a fashion. Any abattoir in Aus used that kill method today and it would be shut down in a heartbeat!

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I used to...but they shut down (too inner city) and moved further out.

 

Regardless - these kind of abuses do happen here too - I wont deny that - but the animal welfare watchdogs are keeping an eye and acting when tipped off. They investigate and prosecute and it is made big news on free to air mainstream TV, and the people are outraged.

As it should be.

 

However what we see in The Cove - (and as I said ... it sure is one sided) - is the GOVERNMENT covering up, denying access, making false statements. They are not justifying the brutal slaughter of the dolphins, they are simply denying that it is happening.

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Quote:
However what we see in The Cove - (and as I said ... it sure is one sided) - is the GOVERNMENT covering up, denying access, making false statements. They are not justifying the brutal slaughter of the dolphins, they are simply denying that it is happening.


But. But. Are they? Actually?
Or is the film being made that way?
Or are they perhaps just ignoring hysterical gaijin trying to kick up a fuss in their own country?
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Have you seen it KK?

There is footage from the IWC (International Whaling Commission - I think) meeting. It was like the United Nations for issues of cetacean's. The Japanese representative stated that the vast majority of Dolphins were killed instantly - they absolutely were not - they were frightened, tortured and suffered greatly.

 

If the authorities were being upfront and honest why would they have razor wire at entry points, conduct the cull in a secure and secluded cove, and be going to extreme lengths to prevent the cull being filmed? Why not film it themselves and put the best light on it.

 

Still, all this aside as a mother I was most upset by the sale of heavily contaminated Dolphin meat (especially when it was in disguise) that could effect the health of the children (and adults), or cause birth defects. That was proven. And there is now more transparency as a result of the investigations. And really this is the direction we want to go.

 

There is a push to have Palm Oil labeled on products in Australia (which it currently isn't) so that consumers have the option of CHOOSING if they wish to buy a product that contains it or not. And that action is being taken simply because Palm Oil industry is destroying habitats - and people want to say no. I think heavy metal contamination in the food is a much bigger concern for consumers.

 

Basically the more we know....the more informed choices we can make.

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Originally Posted By: Mamabear
Have you seen it KK?


Not yet no Mamabear.

Originally Posted By: Mamabear
The Japanese representative stated that the vast majority of Dolphins were killed instantly - they absolutely were not - they were frightened, tortured and suffered greatly.


How do you know that? From the film perhaps?

Originally Posted By: Mamabear
If the authorities were being upfront and honest why would they have razor wire at entry points, conduct the cull in a secure and secluded cove, and be going to extreme lengths to prevent the cull being filmed? Why not film it themselves and put the best light on it.


Well, I don't know. But as a general rule, when people are being pressured and hassled about things from outside, they often tend to get defensive. If they don't think they are doing anything terribly wrong, they may well just be very annoyed at the whole thing.

I haven't seen it and I don't know.

I just don't think we should get all worked up about a one-sided argument and when we don't 'know it all'. And just because a group of people living in a very different culture to our own acts in a different way to how we would act and think of as being 'normal' or whatever does not mean it is wrong and or suspicious.
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Oh I am not about to jump on a plane and join the protest. And my love affair with Japan will continue. Plenty of plus points for me in Japan wink

 

But having read this thread, I then stumbled across the DVD when I was buying 2012 and Robin Williams comedy DVDs for my son for his birthday - so I thought...hmmm...why not .. I will check it out. I am actually glad that I did. Information is a good thing.

 

How do I know the Dolphins suffered?

They did a black ops style stealth set up of camera's and took footage of the actual cull. It was clear and apparent that those animals suffered. Seriously - check it out.

 

I eat meat, I eat fish - and I will continue to do so. But I do expect that the animal providing me with sustenance is treated humanely in it's life and is killed with as little fear and suffering as possible. I specifically look for this in my produce and am prepared to pay more. If we were all given the choice I wonder how many people would pick up the packet that said "Dolphin Meat: Sourced in the Taiji Cull" after seeing HOW that cull actually takes place. Some will I am sure. But I think we should be given the choice.

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Quote:
The Japanese representative stated that the vast majority of Dolphins were killed instantly - they absolutely were not - they were frightened, tortured and suffered greatly.


I do not doubt that some/however many dolphins suffered.
I was more commenting on your comment above and the nuance made.
Just because you saw a documentary made - by the outraged party - does not mean that all dolphins are killed this way.

Anyway I am looking forwad to seeing this sometime soon.
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You definitely should.

 

I knew what to expect, but even so it was confronting.

 

The Representative was referring to the Taiji Cull, and the camera's took close up and whole cove footage. The Dolphins were herded in using noise to chase them into the dead end of the Cove.

 

There were more Dolphins in that cove than I have ever seen in real life all added up over my 41 years - and I have had them escorting us while wakeboarding, and frolicking in the river out front of my parents home.

 

When they were in the smallest of area's, unable to escape, the men in their little boats began stabbing them repeatedly with long spear like knives. They screamed, thrashed and jumped, while the water ran red with their blood. Those that had not been hit yet behaved in a panicked manner and tried to escape, until it was their turn.

 

The entire cove was a deep red with blood in the end.

It was an eerie end after the chaotic noisy thrashing of the cull.

 

If you have trouble getting it let me know. Papa wants to watch it, and then I wont be watching it again. Happy to send if you can't get it in Japan.

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Originally Posted By: KlingKlang
Quote:
The Japanese representative stated that the vast majority of Dolphins were killed instantly - they absolutely were not - they were frightened, tortured and suffered greatly.


I do not doubt that some/however many dolphins suffered.
I was more commenting on your comment above and the nuance made.
Just because you saw a documentary made - by the outraged party - does not mean that all dolphins are killed this way.

Anyway I am looking forwad to seeing this sometime soon.


How exactly is a dolphin supposed to be killed 'humanely'? We have enough problems with livestock, and at least they can be led to a boltgun. Dolphins can't. the best you may be able to do is shoot them, but as far as i know, thats not how its done. They are speared and hooked.

As for fish, i can guarantee you that no fish that comes you your plate has died a humane death. they are hooked or netted, where they undergo decompression and bleed to death or sufforcate. And if you are eating the liked of tuna or some other ocean-caught creature, not only they suffered, but also did many, many others that are not commercially viable, and thrown back overboard, dead (bycatch).
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Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

As for fish, i can guarantee you that no fish that comes you your plate has died a humane death. they are hooked or netted, where they undergo decompression and bleed to death or sufforcate. And if you are eating the liked of tuna or some other ocean-caught creature, not only they suffered, but also did many, many others that are not commercially viable, and thrown back overboard, dead (bycatch).


Exactly.
The whole thing is a bunch of sentimental gaijin crap!
The dolphins are NOT endangered and DIDN'T suffer any more than any other sea creature harvested for OUR consumption. So what is all the outrage about?

I love dolphins too. I surf, swim, dive and marvel at them all the time, but hey, who am I to enforce my cultural sensitivities on another?
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Originally Posted By: Mantas
Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

As for fish, i can guarantee you that no fish that comes you your plate has died a humane death. they are hooked or netted, where they undergo decompression and bleed to death or sufforcate. And if you are eating the liked of tuna or some other ocean-caught creature, not only they suffered, but also did many, many others that are not commercially viable, and thrown back overboard, dead (bycatch).


Exactly.
The whole thing is a bunch of sentimental gaijin crap!
The dolphins are NOT endangered and DIDN'T suffer any more than any other sea creature harvested for OUR consumption.


woah, i wasn't trying to justify it. Maybe i am a 'setimental gaijin', but i harshly disagree that any living creature should be subjected to violence like that, especially when we as humans have the technology and moral choice not to.

As for 'cultural sensitivities', i only agree with that up to a point. When 'traditions' overstep the line from being 'a part of one's culture/livelihood' to 'causing unjustifiable amounts of suffering/danger' then i call bullshit.

I'm sure i don't need to remind you of the many 'traditions' the human family has produced that are now extinct because they were idiotically oppressive and cruel.
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I'm with you Oyuki.

We evolve, develop and reassess what we define as reasonable all the time.

 

We are having a 'discussion' about being open and honest and trying to improve the methods used here, and question whether they should be used at all - personally for me it is not about cultural denigration or condemnation.

 

Fact: there is an unjustifiable amount of suffering in the Taiji cull.

Fact: dolphin meat contains far too high a level of Mercury to continue to be considered safe for human consumption.

 

Question: If the meat from the dolphin presents a health risk to consumers, is it necessary to have the cull at all?

Question: If it is necessary (why?), can it be done quickly and with less suffering than the present method.

 

If asking those questions is sentimental gaijin crap then I am glad to belong to that group - particularly as it is those people who question why, and can we do better, that result in improvements being made, new ways to do things being discovered...

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Mamabear, you miss the fact that they are also selling the dolphins for $150,000 to zoos and sea-life centers around the world. This point wasnt well made, but they first look for cute ones to sell before butchering the rest.

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Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I don't know.

 

The cute ones get saved by virtue of their likeness to Flipper, and live out their days in captivity - bit better than being butchered...

 

But if it wasn't for world wide demand for performing dolphins then maybe they wouldn't be bothered with the entire exercise seeing as a dead one only fetches $600 (less if the consumer was more aware of the heavy metal contamination).

 

I have watched the dolphin show at Sea World - 5 and a half years ago - took the youngest for his 5th birthday. I have zero interest in going back. To me it was like watching a performing bear with a tutu on. But I suppose there are millions who would disagree with me on that point.

 

No sure how many would disagree with me that eating heavy metal riddled meat is dangerous.

 

I reckon this is the angle that needs to be taken - rather than the emotive angle presented in the film (although you can see the people are genuinely upset themselves, and that is why the film is so emotionally driven). If dolphins are considered toxic as a food source I wonder what would change....

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MB I think you are missing a very valid point, that being that there ISN'T a market for Dolphin meat. Japanese people don't really eat Dolphin meat, which is one of the reasons that its re-labelled as Whale Meat, which has a relatively small market here (contrary to what people think). You are right, the point of the Doco should be about the Dangerously high levels of Mercury and other toxins that are in this meat and which is fed to schoolkids, often under the guise of Whale meat.....but thats not the point. That is a side issue here, the point being that these dolphins are being slaughtered in a way that clashes with our middle class western sensibilities. Oyuki and myself have had a long debate in this thread and we both agree that to humanely kill Dolphins and other sealife is nigh on impossible (well economically anyway) BUT we argue this point from different sides of the fence.

 

So taking the main point of the Doco, the horrible slaughter of an animal that we identify with simply because its "cute", and is of an apparent intelligence that other animals do not exhibit, how can they be slaughtered humanely? We will discount the poisonous meat arguement for a minute and assume that its safe to eat and in fact that there is a healthy market for eating this meat.

 

As Oyuki has pointed out, the way in which all sea animals are killed for our consumption means that they suffer a pretty nasty death, being left to suffocate on the deck of a boat and also that some of the most prized sea food worldwide is heavily contaminated with toxins, just like dolphin meat.

 

I don't know why the IWC is asking the Japanese to justify the cull if the dolphins are not endangered?

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Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan
Originally Posted By: Mantas
Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

As for fish, i can guarantee you that no fish that comes you your plate has died a humane death. they are hooked or netted, where they undergo decompression and bleed to death or sufforcate. And if you are eating the liked of tuna or some other ocean-caught creature, not only they suffered, but also did many, many others that are not commercially viable, and thrown back overboard, dead (bycatch).


Exactly.
The whole thing is a bunch of sentimental gaijin crap!
The dolphins are NOT endangered and DIDN'T suffer any more than any other sea creature harvested for OUR consumption.


woah, i wasn't trying to justify it. Maybe i am a 'setimental gaijin', but i harshly disagree that any living creature should be subjected to violence like that, especially when we as humans have the technology and moral choice not to.

As for 'cultural sensitivities', i only agree with that up to a point. When 'traditions' overstep the line from being 'a part of one's culture/livelihood' to 'causing unjustifiable amounts of suffering/danger' then i call bullshit.

I'm sure i don't need to remind you of the many 'traditions' the human family has produced that are now extinct because they were idiotically oppressive and cruel.


I'm not trying to justify it either. The 'sentimental gaigin' comment was more about what animals we westerners do or don't chose to part empathy for. Predominately the cute, cuddly, majestic, frolicking ones get all the attention (hence the film and therefore this thread) and the less attractive 'pest' type animals get slaughtered in just as barbaric ways as the dolphins and most likely to be a more important player in it's eco system, but no one gives a toss about them.
You comment about the harvesting of fish in nets and traps was a perfect example. If your really want to get to the heart of all this and define the different degrees of animal suffering and how animals should be slaughtered, then what we are talking about is the difference between a dolphin being stabbed and hacked with a long sharp instrument and a fish dying a slow death with it's internal organs ruptured or crushed.
Sorry if that's too graphic a point, but someone tell me which one of the animals suffers more, and which one deserves a film made about it?
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No, i get it. Thats why i washed my hands of the whole business. Its became too untenable to treat my dog like a best friend and then pay money to a company to treat a pig (which are just as intelligent and personable) like utter waste for its short life.

 

I see the same hypocrisy here, and that was the original intent of starting the post.

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Actually I just went back and read your first post.

 

Why are dolphins so special? I don't know but they are. I've had them ride a wave under my board for nearly a hundred meters once. Something I'll never forget.

 

The Cove, with it's waters running red with dolphin blood is too good an oportunity to pass up for a film maker targeting the sentimental gaijin.

 

I hope they do some good with it and it stops the cull. friend

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