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Originally Posted By: JA
Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan
Technically, most of us can be completely healthy without meat.


That, unfortunately, is a load of rubbish! IF you want to go without meat you have to do all sorts of wierd things to plants to make up for the nutrients you miss out on through not eating meat. ie create "milk" from beans.

I wish the vegos of this world would answer me a simple question ... IF we are not meant to weat meat, why do we have incisor teeth? (these are the ones intended to tear the flesh)


JA he did qualify it with 'technically' and it is true technically we can survive quite healthily without meat even if it does mean having to make milk from beans. Question is if we can go without meat should we?
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Well, for some people like me, there are too many problems with meat to justify eating it.

 

For a lot of people who don't want to give it up, its not about if we should give it up or not, but how much we should consume. I think as people find out more and can make informed decisions about what goes into meat, they will natually consume less.

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Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

No, it isn't. There are people all over the world who live full, healthy lives without meat. Entire vegetarian cultures, like some Hindu sects, refrain from meat from cradle to grave.



Good point Oyuki. We are talking about almost a billion people here. Some of them have the toughest constitution on the planet.

I love meat too much to give it away. Sorry mate.
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Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan
The point that "We are part of the natural world" => "We are governed by the same basic feelings as animals" => which seems to suggest that we are slaves to our 'natural drives', and should live accordingly. If you follow that line of thought thru, the conclusions get kinda weird.


I don't think that we are SLAVES to our natural urges. As you mentioned before we have the power of rational choice.

MB, just goes to show what different cultures think eh? I watched a documentary on slaughterhouses and it was talking about Cows and how they are hereded one at a time into a narrow pen where they can't turn around, the guy that actually kills them, comes from behind and shoots them with the bolt gun and the reason given was so that the cows couldn't see him coming and get agitated (and produce excess adrenaline) as this would spoil the meat. Dunno how true these things actually are.

Somebody mentioned fish, now the way they are caught and killed is rather horrifc when you think about it. Gathered up into a huge net and left to suffocate. But it would be impossible to "clean kill" every one of them. Again no one is rising up and protesting the "inhumane treatment" that the fish are receiving. There are protest about the fishing industry and about how its ultimately unsustainable, dragging huge nets across the ocean floor and scooping up everything in its path, discarding many tonnes of surplus sea life, BUT the protests are nothing to do with the "barbaric slaughter" of the fish
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Originally Posted By: JA
Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan
what kind of person would

-butcher non-food-animals (like buffalo) for sport until near extinction?


Please explain what, exactly, is a "non-food" animal? and why is a buffalo not a food animal?


Sorry, i'm using an example specific to North America. The plains buffalo was pretty much wiped off the face of the Earth, even though the great plains were once full of them.

The native peoples did eat buffalo, but the decimation was caused by Europeans, who slaughtered them for 'sport' (if randomly firing into herds from trains is sporting).
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The native americans would literally use all of the animal as well. The European slaughter wasn't all for "sport" though, it was used as a method of ethnic cleansing and control. Because the Native Americans relied so much on the Buffalo for food and for products, the White American government killed them all so they could control the Native American population. Either by wiping them out or by forcing them to move to land that was decided by the US government, that was ultimately barren and useless to the many tribes, increasing their dependance on "aid" from the US Government

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I didn't know that, though I always HATED history, I blame Mr Kenilworth at school he made it the most dull subject possible.

 

I'm going to watch The Cove tomorrow night looking forward to seeing it.

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I didn't study History in school (only the 1st 2 years where you study every subject), I chose geography and Modern Studies, but have since developed a taste for reading historical books.

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Originally Posted By: grungy-gonads
I didn't know that, though I always HATED history, I blame Mr Kenilworth at school he made it the most dull subject possible.

I'm going to watch The Cove tomorrow night looking forward to seeing it.


Where GG?
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I watched The Cove last night.

 

I felt it was fairly poor, playing 100% on emotion with little logical explanation of why this activity is wrong. Also not much voice given to the Japanese. (This is not to say I condone what is happening in Taiji.)

 

The interesting stuff for me:

- mercury levels are so dangerously high in larger fish

- dolphin meat is being passed off as whale meat.

- taiji whale museum is a trader of live dolphins to zoos

- IWC do not consider dolphin to be a whale, do not protect them.

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