Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics

[Thundercat 60]

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

And no, the Olympics are NOT that special. Especially when you are up against someone like Shaun White who will win it all anyways.
I think Kokubo's attitude is much healthier that the last Olympic hopeful, Narita.

You really think that representing your country at the biggest sporting event in the world is the same as competing in Alts Bandai? (just for example)

Saying something like, 'I'm going to approach this event just as I would any event and not let the stress get to me' and 'I don't think the olympics snowboarding competition is important' are completely different things. He is not only an ambassador for Japan but also his sport within Japan (one that seems to be dying a slow death). The effects of having a positive role model who can inspire younger generations is exactly what the sport needs. Not another selfish, pouty loser who is only in it for himself. He comes across as any number of spoiled kids who are handed everything and never have to reflect on their actions. Anyway, one thing is for sure, he won't be invited back in 2014 unless he wins a medal at this competition. I don't know this kid personally but from everything I've read or seen about him his attitude absolutely sucks.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

I know, i know. But snowboarding an general (especially subjectively judged snowboarding, like halfpipe) has never really attracted the straight-laced types.

 

From the CBC halfpipe announcers (former pros) getting reprimanded for loaded jokes in the Nagano 98 Olympics (not to mention some of the world's best boycotting the entire event) to Jasey Jay's 'scandal' for testing positive for the performance enhancing drug marijuana to Heikki Sorsa's 2-foot mowhawk in Salt lake City to whatever is happening now, i'm not really phased. Its snowboarding.

 

However, it is cute to see the Japanese SKI Federation reprimand him tho. Insert your own joke here.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

And no, the Olympics are NOT that special. Especially when you are up against someone like Shaun White who will win it all anyways.
I think Kokubo's attitude is much healthier that the last Olympic hopeful, Narita.

You really think that representing your country at the biggest sporting event in the world is the same as competing in Alts Bandai? (just for example)

If you think of something like halfpipe snowboarding as a big deal, then that is where we part ways. I think Alts Bandai and the Olympics a little different only in scale, not essence. If bigger=better is what gets you off so be it. Why do some of the world's best pro riders bother competing in events like the Mount Baker Banked slalom or the Greg Todds Memorial that have relatively miniscule winnings and no points to their FIS standings?

Quote:

Saying something like, 'I'm going to approach this event just as I would any event and not let the stress get to me' and 'I don't think the olympics snowboarding competition is important' are completely different things. He is not only an ambassador for Japan but also his sport within Japan (one that seems to be dying a slow death). The effects of having a positive role model who can inspire younger generations is exactly what the sport needs. Not another selfish, pouty loser who is only in it for himself.

For someone who has been raised in the western tradition of snowboarding, i would rather have someone like Kokubo be a role model that Narita. And if i have to explain why, you have either been in Japan too long or do not know why snowboarding exists in the first place.

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He comes across as any number of spoiled kids who are handed everything and never have to reflect on their actions. Anyway, one thing is for sure, he won't be invited back in 2014 unless he wins a medal at this competition. I don't know this kid personally but from everything I've read or seen about him his attitude absolutely sucks.

no, not having fun snowboarding sucks.

[Thundercat 60]

All I hope is that he takes the criticism to heart and can channel the negativity to something positive. I love the sport and am soooo glad to see it included in the olympics... IMHO, winter olympics were rather boring before it was included (allows pro hockey players has helped a lot too )

[Thundercat 60]

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

If you think of something like halfpipe snowboarding as a big deal, then that is where we part ways. I think Alts Bandai and the Olympics a little different only in scale, not essence. If bigger=better is what gets you off so be it.

Nah, you might be reading what I'm writing but you sure aren't understanding it. Representing your country, being an ambassador for Japan and Japanese snowboarding is what I consider important. The 'essence' is completely different because in one event you are only representing yourself and your interests and in the other you are not. None of that other stuff really matters beyond that. The problem that I have is that he doesn't see the difference.

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i would rather have someone like Kokubo be a role model that Narita.

All that tells me is that Kokubo is a better role model than Narita. Does that mean he is the best role model for the sport? What is it about him that impresses you so much?

[Oyuki kigan 0]

I don't see much proof of the competitive aspect of halfpipe snowboarding as being high in importance to the riders involved, much less nationalist aspects. Fame and glory perhaps, but not much more than that. In that sense, snowboarding this far has maintained a much more lax attitude towards competition than more traditional sports. Many of the compeditors are close friends, and its kind of hard to suddenly pull yourself into some kind of 'them' against me' role. The nationalist aspect is even weaker.

 

And i'm not saying that Kokubo is an ideal role model, i don't know him well enough either. But i do know that Japan in general stresses form and fashion over fun, and that is something i strongly disagree with.

 

The former Olympic hopeful Narita had so much pressure on him to perform from all the bullshit nationalist media, having him kowtow and say 'ganbarimasu' and 'kachimasu' a million times. And when he did followed normal Japanese halfpipe strategy* and of course, ate shit, he snapped and started punching the floor of the pipe. As a snowboarder, this is way more serous that not following dress code. It indicates that he was too wrapped up in winning, and was very, very far from enjoying the comp. That is NOT in ideal role model for snowboarding.

 

Kokubo is taking the opposite route, and not making a big deal out of it period, which seems to tell me that he enjoys his snowboarding more. And that to me, seems more in the spirit of the sport. So in comparison, he is a little better.

 

 

There is of course the middle road too, where he could have just worn the damn suit properly. It wouldn't have made any difference to me. The fact that people even care is beyond me.

 

But i imagine a case can be made that Japanese professional sports can be way to competitive and serious that what we see as an immature immature act of rebellion has much more significance for him as an athlete.

 

 

*when it looks like you can't win from technique alone, go spectacularly big and crash. This has been normal procedure in the SLC and Torino games. Mero-chan's performance also synonomous with this)

[1 4]

I reckon he simply hasn't got the brain capacity to know wtf is going on with the fuss.

 

He dreads are rad.

[Thundercat 60]

Dude, I think you are buying that bad boy, don't give two shits snowboarding marketing crap that seems so prevalent these days. If they didn't care about competition why would they train? They are top athletes in their sports and a lot is riding on their performance. Whether some snowboarders are more or less serious about competition than other people seems to be a little beside the point because that's more about personality (and in sports there are lots of personalities)

 

Anyway, as I stated before, I'm not even taking about the competitive aspect of the sport. Nor am I talking about competition prizes, notoriety, fame or sponsorship. I'm talking about the responsibilities that come with representing your country at an international event.

 

Last point I'll make is that the suit thing is only a small part of the problem about what caused the criticism in the first place what more people cared about was his attitude and insincerity in the interview he did afterwards. Here is a small glimpse...

[SKI 15]

What a fool, on so many levels.

 

[Oyuki kigan 0]

Originally Posted By: Black Mountain

Dude, I think you are buying that bad boy, don't give two shits snowboarding marketing crap that seems so prevalent these days.

no, that attitude has been there since the beginning of the sport

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If they didn't care about competition why would they train? They are top athletes in their sports and a lot is riding on their performance.

Really? Careers are not made and destroyed in the Olympics. When was the last time you heard something about Gian Simmen? Or JJ Thomas?

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Whether some snowboarders are more or less serious about competition than other people seems to be a little beside the point because that's more about personality (and in sports there are lots of personalities)

i won't disagree with that.

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Anyway, as I stated before, I'm not even taking about the competitive aspect of the sport. Nor am I talking about competition prizes, notoriety, fame or sponsorship. I'm talking about the responsibilities that come with representing your country at an international event.

i know, and like i said, are not that highly regarded in the halfpipe snowboard world.

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Last point I'll make is that the suit thing is only a small part of the problem about what caused the criticism in the first place what more people cared about was his attitude and insincerity in the interview he did afterwards. Here is a small glimpse...

of course its insincere.　What percentage of apologies in Japan sincere? The lines are almost always known in advance. When asked about how you will do in the Olympics, you must answer "Ganbarimasu!". When asked to repent for your social faux pas, you must answer "Hansei shimasu". When asked about food, you must say "Oishii", and when asked about a political scandal, you must answer "Kioku wa gozaimasen".

The fact that he didn't put in the extra effort to look like he cared is what gets under peoples skin.

[Thundercat 60]

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

Quote:

If they didn't care about competition why would they train? They are top athletes in their sports and a lot is riding on their performance.

Really? Careers are not made and destroyed in the Olympics. When was the last time you heard something about Gian Simmen? Or JJ Thomas?

You said that you don't see 'proof of the competitive aspects of halfpipe snowboarding' and I say that is absolute BS. I never said anything about the olympics in my statement... you took it to mean that... How many competitions do you have to win before getting sponsored? How many do you have to lose before being dropped? There is so much riding on their performance and the competitive aspect is what keeps pushing the sport forward. If these guys weren't competitive and really didn't care about anything (like the marketing suggests) then why are they entering competitions or getting sponsored in the first place? They should be out in the backwoods living the dream.

I wish I could find a clip for the rest of that interview so you'd be able to see for yourself what a pompous ass he is.(although I'm sure it wouldn't sway you opinion)

[Oyuki kigan 0]

Competitive halfpipe riding is lucrative. And yes, you are right, it IS competitive. I may have exaggerated the noncompetitivenss of it.

But compared to other sports, the competition is slightly different. You are competing in a large part, against friends. Which is to say, there is as much of the negative aspects or rivalries of other sports.

 

Shaun White is a very competitive fellow, and one of the reasons he does so well is because he utilizes the pressure of having to perform positively. So in a sense, he is competing against himself. Sorry if i overstated my case.

 

But snowboarding has grown despite not being in the Olympics until recently. Unlike other sports in t world where the Olympics reperesent the pinnacle of sporting events, snowboarding has got along for years without them, and only embraced them with mixed feelings. For many snowboarders, it is 'just another contest', just with the 'olympic' brand behind it. So for them, it may not hold the same significance as for say, a nordic biathalon athlete.

 

He may very well be a pompous ass. Which is still kinda beside the point.

 

The fact is, this whole thing is a joke to snowboarders like myself, kinda like the 'big' controversy surrounding Jasey Jay Anderson's medal revocation for testing positive for marijuana use.

 

A snowboarder smoking pot? A snowboarder with his shirt untucked?

 

The horror!

 

whatever.

 

[JA2340 16]

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

... especially subjectively judged snowboarding, like halfpipe ...

Trouble is that all the "subjectively judged" events are sooo subject to the whims of the judges and as such are not a part of "higher, faster, further" of sport.

IMHO these events should be relegated to a demonstration sport, not to competition. I include ice dancing (winter) and synchronised sinking (summer) as perfect examples, where the result depends entirely on the judges whim, whether they had a good night's sleep, whether they were well fed, or whether they were just plain shitty that day!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: JA

Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan

... especially subjectively judged snowboarding, like halfpipe ...

Trouble is that all the "subjectively judged" events are sooo subject to the whims of the judges and as such are not a part of "higher, faster, further" of sport.

IMHO these events should be relegated to a demonstration sport, not to competition. I include ice dancing (winter) and synchronised sinking (summer) as perfect examples, where the result depends entirely on the judges whim, whether they had a good night's sleep, whether they were well fed, or whether they were just plain shitty that day!

but in the Olympics, if you relegated all sports such as, you would have a very small competitive field. I agree with you JA, I don't like these type of sports, but there would be no Gymnastics, which make up a huge part of the summer games and for many kind of represent the ethos of the Games along with the track and field events.

[spook 0]

for those who know alot about snowboarding i'm just wondering how often there have been major judging controversies?

say, in ice skating, every other olympics there is some major uproar about dodgy judging. but is snowboarding judging more legit? i never really watch competitive half pipe. i saw that danny davis run from a month or so ago and it was mental. how close are runs in comps (and how much does judging come into it) or does one guy normally blow the rest of the field away?

[JA2340 16]

Well, I duno from snowboarding, but Dale Begg-Smith in the moguls was relegated to silver by a canadian. The difference in scores was in the order of 0.2something (actually, the results table below)

 

1. Alexandre Bilodeau 26.75

2. Dale Begg-Smith 26.58

3. Bryon Wilson 26.08

 

So the benefit of being slightly faster yet more ragged and with higher Degree of Difficulty jumps, because of the scoring weights being skewed in favour of air points (50%) against turns (25%) and time (25%).

 

At the point at which the two competitors were about to enter the last air, Dale B-S was ahead by 0.01! the last air and time beat him.

 

NB, this is NOT sour grapes, he was beaten by a (as judged) better run, but I bet he's gutted that he might have been able to do a slightly quicker run with the same jumps maybe a bit more ragged in the turns and have a double gold instead of a gold/silver combo.

 

Whatever, it reinforces my disbelief in the judging system.

 

As for reducing the size of the competition - well would that be a bad thing? As for "Gymnastics, which make up a huge part of the summer games and for many kind of represent the ethos of the Games" - how is that?

 

The ethos is "Higher, Faster, Longer". which part of gymspastics do any of these refer to? EVERY gymnastics routine has a wholly subjective score system. Start with 100 and deduct points for errors. The magnitude of the error determines the deduction, so each person will see the errors differently (unless they have been programmed to be robotic about it).

[stemik 14]

Anyone else get up in the early hours to watch the mens downhill?

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: JA

Well, I duno from snowboarding, but Dale Begg-Smith in the moguls was relegated to silver by a canadian. The difference in scores was in the order of 0.2something (actually, the results table below)

1. Alexandre Bilodeau 26.75
2. Dale Begg-Smith 26.58
3. Bryon Wilson 26.08

So the benefit of being slightly faster yet more ragged and with higher Degree of Difficulty jumps, because of the scoring weights being skewed in favour of air points (50%) against turns (25%) and time (25%).

At the point at which the two competitors were about to enter the last air, Dale B-S was ahead by 0.01! the last air and time beat him.

NB, this is NOT sour grapes, he was beaten by a (as judged) better run, but I bet he's gutted that he might have been able to do a slightly quicker run with the same jumps maybe a bit more ragged in the turns and have a double gold instead of a gold/silver combo.

Whatever, it reinforces my disbelief in the judging system.

I don't like subjective judging either but in the case of moguls, if speed were everything they wouldn't do anything on the jumps and they'd try to get as little air as possible to get a faster score so it would be a different sport. Essentially it would be a sport without jumps.

BTW that 'Australian' was actually a Canadian from Vancouver no less who hated the coach of the mogul team and went to Australia to spite the Canadian coach. He didn't take off his googles during the ceremony probably because he was worried about being recognized and getting lynched. Maybe he's happy he didn't get the gold.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: ger

BTW that 'Australian' was actually a Canadian from Vancouver no less who hated the coach of the mogul team and went to Australia to spite the Canadian coach. He didn't take off his googles during the ceremony probably because he was worried about being recognized and getting lynched. Maybe he's happy he didn't get the gold.

Well....being the blessed Land of Opportunity, Milk and Honey that Australia is we tend to attract a fair few international athletes who decide to call Australia home.

It MAY have something to do with the fact that they see an opportunity to represent at the Olympics where none would exist in their home country due to a higher level of competition in their chosen sport - it may because they are looking for a change of lifestyle - it may be because of clashes with birth country officialdom.

Whatever it is - the AIS will make sure the immigration gates are opened for them, and good luck to them! Welcome one and all

[gerard 6]

I was happy to hear that you guys got a meddle, especially in one of my favourite events and don't want to diminish it.... and the first thing I thought was that Canada also attracts a lot of athletes away from developing countries for the summer olympics so maybe fair is fair, but actually that's because they have better facilities in Canada for training than places like Jamaica. That's the same reason Aus attracts athletes.

 

In this case though, I don't think the Canadian went over to Aus for the training opportunities and facilities --like at Threadbo ... and he was one of the best in Canada so he WOULD have been able to represent his country. It sounds like he just wanted to say '**** you' to someone so Australia was able to poach him. But hell, that's fair enough.... Australia's an awsome place and I'd probably do it too if the circumstances were the same.

[NoFakie 45]

Anyone half decent at cricket is welcome to play for England. There's a long history of it. Pieterson did it out of spite for SA for quotas by the sounds.

 

As for the snowboarder, I still say its a joke to have a uniform on the plane but not during the event. If Shaun White with all his sponsors can wear team colours, I'm sure the Japanese can, especially since 99% of their supporters will be giving it "ganbare Nippon".

 

BC is going to be paying for this for a long long time, so I hope things pick up for them. It's been a bit of a disaster so far.

[big-will 7]

What has been a disaster btw? Not been following closely..

[big-will 7]

(Other than the death of course which in itself is pretty bad)

[NoFakie 45]

Read today's Guardian, for example. Weather is part of it.

Taxpayer on the hook for six billion by the way.

[Thundercat 60]

Here's a great story. Stay true to your roots dude!

 

Tight pants!

 

Hilarious quote!

 

Look, Nate: Team USA Snowboarding sponsors include Nike, Microsoft, and Visa. That's about as "establishment" as you can get. So relax about "the integrity of the sport."