RobBright 35 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: rainmaker wow, it's interesting to see the reaction, but that is the point. Very tribal. Whilst you raised any interesting point, last season's snow was pretty good compared to 07/08, which was piss poor. But it has to be taken into the whole grand scheme of things, resorts have been closing year on year, ever since the bubble burst way back in the early '90s, due to their financial instability, and over-reliance on the wrong customers. There is also a high concentration of ski slopes in a small area of Japan that some are going to go under, due to the larger ones being, usually, better run than the smaller, sometimes family-run, places. And also, you didn't take it account that Japan has pretty much never relied on overseas tourists for skiing/snowboarding. Whilst you could argue that Australians are important customers for the Niseko/Rusutsu/Furano areas, again, that's a small part of the industry as a whole. if you were to take those area, then as those areas would initially suffer, the other areas, such as Yuzawa, Tohoku, well on the main island of Honshu, wouldn't suffer that much of a loss in comparison. And don't forget, if the pound suffers against the Euro, like last season: Originally Posted By: The Guardian British skiers and snowboarders got a fright last winter. When the pound sank beneath 1.10 to the euro and 1.70 to the Swiss franc, we woke up to the horrors of high prices in the big-name ski resorts of the Alps. Six quid for a beer, £15 for a plate of spaghetti and lift passes for £220 were not uncommon, and the old faithfuls such as Val d’Isère, Verbier and St Anton suddenly didn’t seem quite so faithful any more. you could also say that the European resorts are also in for a bumpy ride too. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: rainmaker With the reports coming from Japan of resorts closing and poor snow record of the past two years being placed in most media outlets in Europe, l fear for the Japanese Alpine Sport Industry. In my limited experience in the Niseko Resort Area, the past three "poor snow record" winters have yielded 12.2, 13.9 and 12.1 METRES respectively of the finest quality snow at village level (300m), with considerably more up the hill. Last season's standout in Europe was Warth, Austria with 11m (Daily Mail Ski & Snowboard Magazine, UK). I've worked and played in European resorts where "poor snow record' translates as unable to ski due to lack of snow. Many eminent people in the ski industry fear for Europe, especially the resorts below 1000m. Link to post Share on other sites
foreversnow 5 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Yeah I have been there for the last 3 poor seasons - Last season I didn't think it was going to stop snowing and for someone who is height challenged I quite often was hitting hip deep powder YEAH SHOCKING SEASON. I was constantly worried about scratching my skies on rocks NOT I don't know why people keep going back to Japan year after year???????????? Maybe it is for the bad snow Link to post Share on other sites
skichef 0 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 You are right indeed. The £ is weaker still this season. Things are not cheap in Europe at all. Cheap deals seem only to be found in early January at present. I agree with you. Honshu will not suffer as much as much as Niseko,etc. Nor has it relied on overseas tourists a good deal. Yet it was being 'touted' as the next big thing due to the poor European snow record and lift prices in America. I have followed Honshu for four seasons.I have also been employed for 6 Ski seasons in Europe. Low level resorts in Europe were said to be in danger of closing some time ago, but they have survived. Last season staff were being laid off, something unheard before. Not due to lack of snow, but shortage of guests. I do not know of a £220 pass/6 day pass, though l am sure this big resort have them. There are many resorts at £90-£100 /6 day pass. I take your point, though l stress that the broad sheet papers in England focus on Ski holidays that only the really rich can afford. Cheers PS: Hokkaido is another matter al together. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: rainmaker wow, it's interesting to see the reaction, but that is the point. Very tribal. You edited your original post, which was just ridiculous. You took out your "will it snow in 2009/2010 season" comment. How are people supposed to react to such ridiculousness? Highly deserved Facepalms, I'd say. Link to post Share on other sites
skichef 0 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I accept that full,but as you can only type so much it had to be changed. Low resorts in Europe have been in danger for over 10 years now. Still, my point remains the same. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Quote: but as you can only type so much it had to be changed I didn't know there was a limit on the number of words you can post in a thread People are taking your posts as a joke, because that's how they come across. See comment above as latest to add to that. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: rainmaker I do not know of a £220 pass/6 day pass, though l am sure this big resort have them. There are many resorts at £90-£100 /6 day pass. I take your point, though l stress that the broad sheet papers in England focus on Ski holidays that only the really rich can afford. really? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 At the end of the day not one ski resort in Japan is even slightly dependent on European winter tourism to this country and I doubt ever will be. So rainmaker if you can find cheaper lift tickets there by all means ski in Europe, we don't care! Of course as Mikepow pointed out even during 'bad' seasons Niseko still averages more snow than most European resorts ever will receive. And we certainly get more powder days each season than most European resorts could ever dream of getting. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Clicked on your linky there Rob and got shivers down my spine! All that lovely corduroy .... I can ski THAT at home...give me some fresh ungroomed J-POW thanks very much Link to post Share on other sites
Timmyhugecans 0 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 06-07 I did a quick trip to Switzerland from Hakuba in late Jan, and considering both were having what you call bad seasons, things were a lot worse in Europe. 07-08 was an average year, and last year was considered a bad year also, but as mentioned bad here is considered epic in most other resorts. As GN mentioned also, our European Contingent is minimal, and Apres, nothing compares to Europe, as does nothing compare to Bars Like the Fridge, Hanks, Snow Drop..ect Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 There is something to be said for the poorness of last season - especially when 'Japan' had been marketing itself as having mad powder. Though even so, that was (hopefully) a one-off badness and even so 2) still it wasn't bad bad bad. However bad it was to us used to mountains of snow. Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Europe an important market for Japan? I think the potential Chinese market has way more importance than the European market. I sure cant afford to ski in Europe at 300 bucks a a day. Id rather ski at the NA resorts back home anyways. Way better conditions then Europe. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 way too conceited, thinking if Europeans don't come, Japan wil fail. Those face palms are a lafff. Link to post Share on other sites
iiyamadude 6 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Funny shit. Link to post Share on other sites
Sciclone 2 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 It is funny... We've been to Furano in 2008, and Shiga Kogen in 2009, and for the most part, its spot the round eye. (Except in the Sunroute Shiga Kogen, quite a few aussies stay there due to Sunroute catering to them)... Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Yep...in fact lets keep all those nasty europeans out of here anyway (not the ones already here though), all the more pow for us to ride!! I think people forget that the Alps in Europe are huge compared to japan's mountains. Our resorts over here tend to be a bit lower down compared to Europe and N America and yet Japan gets tons of snow!! I'll take my chances in Japan thanks Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 here are some figures for Hokkaido alone, though a little old, you can see the trend. THe Europeans would fall into the "others" category. Meaning, do I care. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Japanese food, Onsen after ... What more do you want. Japan has a few flavours even within areas like Hokkaido, Zao, Echigo~Shinshu You can't get them in Europe and you can't get Europe in Japan. Stuff international development. Local development with international visitors is the way at least in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx Stuff international development. Local development with international visitors is the way at least in Japan. I agree. I don't see international ski tourism rescuing the ski industry in Japan generally. Too much of a niche market, and too subject to booms, busts and fashion cycles. What is needed for sustainability is for the sport to become an affordable activity for families and young people -- which is in fact what I see happening; lift ticket prices are certainly lower this year than last at many of the places I have been looking at. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Quote: What is needed for sustainability is for the sport to become an affordable activity for families and young people -- which is in fact what I see happening; lift ticket prices are certainly lower this year than last at many of the places I have been looking at. Could also be translated as resorts trying to stay afloat. Kids stay, ride, eat free is good. That is aimed at the local market. Tickets for families from overseas won't get this benefit. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: thursday Kids stay, ride, eat free is good. That is aimed at the local market. Tickets for families from overseas won't get this benefit. Sure they do. There is no passport check at the ticket counter. Link to post Share on other sites
blu 3 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 apple schnappes or sake? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 that's true. I was more referring to the families with kids who have to pay for their airline tickets, which throws them into the packaged tour melee. My example: plane ticket only and book own accomodation costs more than whole family on plane ticket and 3 nights accomodation. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I know a fair few people coming by plane that are not doing "packages" and will be able to make the most of such offers. Link to post Share on other sites
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