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OK, figures (from 2003, the only ones available) for the costs of F1...

 

Total $2,141,100,000

$225,100,000 BAR

$443,800,000 Ferrari

$78,800,000 Jaguar

$79,200,000 Jordan

$304,600,000 McLaren

$39,600,000 Minardi

$206,800,000 Renault

$119,500,000 Sauber

$290,400,000 Toyota

$353,300,000 Williams

Engine budgets $931,000,000

$105,000,000 BAR

$175,000,000 Ferrari

$9,000,000 Jaguar

$18,000,000 Jordan

$140,000,000 McLaren

$15,000,000 Minardi

$110,000,000 Renault

$24,000,000 Sauber

$150,000,000 Toyota

$185,000,000 Williams

Operating the cars at tests $260,800,000

$22,000,000 BAR

$88,000,000 Ferrari

$7,500,000 Jaguar

$3,700,000 Jordan

$29,100,000 McLaren

$3,400,000 Minardi

$14,600,000 Renault

$19,800,000 Sauber

$24,700,000 Toyota

$48,000,000 Williams

Team salaries $194,000,000

$12,800,000 BAR

$41,400,000 Ferrari

$10,600,000 Jaguar

$8,800,000 Jordan

$30,300,000 McLaren

$5,300,000 Minardi

$16,500,000 Renault

$12,700,000 Sauber

$32,300,000 Toyota

$24,000,000 Williams

Operating the cars at races $187,300,000

$17,600,000 BAR

$28,500,000 Ferrari

$17,000,000 Jaguar

$16,000,000 Jordan

$19,200,000 McLaren

$8,500,000 Minardi

$19,000,000 Renault

$18,200,000 Sauber

$22,500,000 Toyota

$20,800,000 Williams

Research and development $173,000,000

$16,500,000 BAR

$20,000,000 Ferrari

$15,400,000 Jaguar

$12,600,000 Jordan

$35,000,000 McLaren

$200,000 Minardi

$16,900,000 Renault

$14,600,000 Sauber

$21,500,000 Toyota

$20,300,000 Williams

Driver salaries $132,000,000

$24,000,000 BAR

$44,000,000 Ferrari

$1,500,000 Jaguar

$8,000,000 Jordan

$13,500,000 McLaren

$500,000 Minardi

$6,200,000 Renault

$6,800,000 Sauber

$7,500,000 Toyota

$20,000,000 Williams

Wind tunnel operating costs $93,600,000

$10,100,000 BAR

$15,100,000 Ferrari

$5,500,000 Jaguar

$4,500,000 Jordan

$12,900,000 McLaren

$3,300,000 Minardi

$8,000,000 Renault

$10,400,000 Sauber

$11,600,000 Toyota

$12,200,000 Williams

Travel and accommodation $86,600,000

$7,900,000 BAR

$18,000,000 Ferrari

$5,300,000 Jaguar

$4,500,000 Jordan

$13,000,000 McLaren

$2,300,000 Minardi

$7,500,000 Renault

$6,800,000 Sauber

$12,000,000 Toyota

$9,300,000 Williams

Corporate entertaining and catering $62,850,000

$7,200,000 BAR

$9,700,000 Ferrari

$5,600,000 Jaguar

$1,600,000 Jordan

$8,900,000 McLaren

$350,000 Minardi

$6,700,000 Renault

$4,300,000 Sauber

$6,300,000 Toyota

$12,200,000 Williams

Car manufacturing costs $19,250,000

$2,000,000 BAR

$4,100,000 Ferrari

$1,400,000 Jaguar

$1,500,000 Jordan

$2,700,000 McLaren

$750,000 Minardi

$1,400,000 Renault

$1,900,000 Sauber

$2,000,000 Toyota

$1,500,000 Williams

 

GNP of countries lower than the Grand Total above ...

U.S. Virgin Islands 2.14 billion $

Malawi 2.08 billion $

Rwanda 2.07 billion $

Aruba 1.98 billion $

Mongolia 1.76 billion $

Guam 1.72 billion $

Lesotho 1.72 billion $

Mauritania 1.72 billion $

French Guiana 1.67 billion $

Central African Rep. 1.40 billion $

Andorra 1.38 billion $

Liechtenstein 1.34 billion $

Sierra Leone 1.21 billion $

Greenland 1.18 billion $

Suriname 1.14 billion $

Somalia 1.12 billion $

Belize 1.02 billion $

Monaco 1.01 billion $

Cape Verde 0.95 billion $

Cayman Islands 0.93 billion $

Antigua and Barbuda 0.89 billion $

Eritrea 0.85 billion $

Djibouti 0.81 billion $

Bhutan 0.80 billion $

Saint Lucia 0.79 billion $

Maldives 0.79 billion $

Guyana 0.76 billion $

East Timor 0.73 billion $

Burundi 0.72 billion $

Seychelles 0.70 billion $

Faroe Islands 0.58 billion $

Equatorial Guinea 0.53 billion $

Mayotte 0.50 billion $

Gibraltar 0.49 billion $

American Samoa 0.47 billion $

Gambia 0.44 billion $

Liberia 0.44 billion $

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 0.43 billion $

San Marino 0.42 billion $

Grenada 0.42 billion $

Comoros 0.39 billion $

Western Samoa 0.39 billion $

Saint Kitts & Nevis 0.39 billion $

Vanuatu 0.34 billion $

British Virgin Islands 0.30 billion $

Solomon 0.28 billion $

Guinea-Bissau 0.28 billion $

Dominica 0.27 billion $

Micronesia 0.25 billion $

Tonga 0.22 billion $

Northern Mariana Islands 0.19 billion $

Marshall Islands 0.19 billion $

Nauru 0.17 billion $

Turks and Caicos Islands 0.15 billion $

Palau 0.15 billion $

Kiribati 0.14 billion $

Anguilla 0.10 billion $

Cook Islands 0.09 billion $

Sao Tome and Principe 0.06 billion $

Montserrat 0.06 billion $

Wallis and Futuna 0.06 billion $

Saint Pierre and Miquelon 0.05 billion $

Saint Helena 0.04 billion $

Falkland Islands0.04 billion $

Tuvalu 0.03 billion $

Niue 0.02 billion $

Tokelau 0.01 billion $

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Originally Posted By: RobBright
Why discriminate against F1?

How about how much the premiership generates and costs?
Why not baseball?

This probably deserves its own thread. Which sport is worst? I bet it isn't F1!
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Originally Posted By: Journey Man
Originally Posted By: RobBright
Why discriminate against F1?

How about how much the premiership generates and costs?
Why not baseball?

This probably deserves its own thread. Which sport is worst? I bet it isn't F1!


OK, off you go, then!
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Originally Posted By: JA
Rob,
Take a quick look at the thread title - should be a clue there!


Statistics are a funny thing - in the right hands, they are meaningful and can make a change, in the wrong hands, they make people look like fools.
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Apropos of what, exactly?

 

Statistics are just numbers. If the costs if F1 add up to far more than the GNP of any number of smaller countries, as the figures indicated, then there's little room for argument.

 

To summarise for you, Rob ...

 

FI spend in 2003 was a total of $2,141,100,000 (ie a tad over 2 billion)

The number of countries with a GNP of less than that is 48.

 

That is all I said, and so ... qed.

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Originally Posted By: JA
Originally Posted By: Journey Man
Originally Posted By: RobBright
Why discriminate against F1?

How about how much the premiership generates and costs?
Why not baseball?

This probably deserves its own thread. Which sport is worst? I bet it isn't F1!


OK, off you go, then!

I wont start it as I don't have any hard information and don't have the inclination or time to do the research. However my gut feel is that other top end forms of entertainment such as international concerts, tennis, rugby, soccer, golf, America's Cup, et al should be scrutinised before handing out the "Worst Culprit Out There" award to F1.
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There are a lot of couch potato around in the world. And they like watching people with big toys.

That's what it's telling me. People who likes distraction and doing so by being a spectator.

If you really like motor sports, go out there Karting, or race a 125cc bike.

Buy a second hand Laser for 1000 bucks and get into yacht racing.

Jump out of a aeroplane. Go play paintball...

I wanna see how much money and sponsorship a particular sports get if the sports don't get into prime time TV.

 

Personally, I don't think F1 driving is really a big deal. I would say these guys have endurance and consistancy in being focused. I have more respect to Moto GP riders.

I jump out of a plane and am falling as fast as a F1. We can collide with each other if we have velocity change caused by a small change in body position. Super human reflex? If I can do it, anyone can.

Put some one on a F1, let them have a go, crash a dozen times but don't have to pick up the bill.. will make a F1 driver out of you.. or we can pretend we are Italians.

We drive on a German Autobahn @ 160~180 km and it feels like we are doing 80km.

speed is just a matter of getting used to, and the relative speed between cars (or skidivers) is not much different when you go neck to neck.

I wanna see a F1 race with some pace cars driving around at 80km with them and they have to dodge it.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Man or car? Funny how he can go from being a beaten man with not a hope in hell to winning 3 of 4 race.

 

 

In 2008 Jenson could hardly buy a point with Honda (and believe me, they paid top dollar); he was labelled "washed up" at the tender age of 28. This season, he has won three out of four grands prix and been praised to the rafters for his "smooth" driving style and maturity.

 

Well which is it? Car or driver? Was Jenson really that bad, or indeed is he really that good?

 

The truth is that in F1 the car is the decisive factor. I couldn't put a percentage on it but if pushed I would say 80 per cent car, 20 per cent driver. Put Lewis Hamilton in a Force India and they still wouldn't win a race, although they might do a little bit better than they are now.

 

This dynamic is true of other sports. Ryan Giggs was yesterday named the PFA Player of the Year, but would he have won that title if he had not been playing for Manchester United? Probably not. Success in sport is down to a combination of factors; where you play, who you play with, at what stage of your career you are playing.

 

Some people find that frustrating. They want to know definitively who the best is. And sure, it would be interesting to see which driver would come out on top if all 20 cars on the grid were identical, but you can find that challenge elsewhere.

 

What makes F1 so fascinating – the DNA of the sport I suppose you could call it – is the technological challenge; who can build the fastest car, the most innovative solution? F1 is at least as much a battle between the engineers as it is the drivers.

 

Besides, there is still that crucial 20 per cent. When the cars are roughly similar, and the stakes are high, who will emerge victorious?

 

In my opinion, Jenson really is world class, right up there with the likes of Lewis and Sebastian Vettel. Yes, he has had the best car for most of the season so far, but he has still beaten his team-mate Rubens Barrichello in every race.

 

It has sometimes been said of Jenson that he is a fine driver on an open road but not really a racer; well, his opening laps in the desert proved his detractors wrong. Jenson's out-braking manoeuvre on Lewis – a fantastic racer – was particularly impressive given his Brawn car is not equipped with the KERS power boost system.

 

Ultimately, though, comparisons between drivers and ages are fatuous; is Michael Schumacher the best driver ever simply because he won the most world titles? No. F1 is all about timing in and out of the car – positioning yourself with the right team at the right time. What is important is that once you're in position, you must capitalise. That is what Jenson is doing right now.

 

Bahrain was a fun trip. The Crown Prince always puts on a good show and the paddock had a nice feel to it.

 

I even found the 38C heat bearable – maybe because I'm used to being in overalls out there. Still, I took the precaution of wearing a T-shirt under my shirt to prevent any sweat patches from showing on the BBC! The attention now turns to Barcelona a week on Sunday, although before then we have a certain FIA world council hearing in Paris tomorrow.

 

So much has been said on the subject that it's hardly worth adding my two pence worth, but here it is anyway: McLaren were caught lying and have since offered a full apology to the FIA, F1's governing body.

 

They have sacked one employee, seen another resign and had their name dragged through the mud. Their card has been marked, their reputation tainted. Do we really need to see more?

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Originally Posted By: Journey Man
my gut feel is that other top end forms of entertainment such as international concerts, tennis, rugby, soccer, golf, America's Cup, et al should be scrutinised before handing out the "Worst Culprit Out There" award to F1.

I'm not sure anyone was concerned with "the worst culprit". I was pointing out the waste of F1, no more and no less. If you want to go into the relative merits of the various sports, feel free anytime you have the time/inclination.

Personally, I could give a shit, but I'd have to try harder!
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Jenson is the smoothest driver out there, he puts the car on a rail - unlike his team mate who fights the car around the track.

Jenson finally has a great package to drive with and is showing his class.

 

Lewis had a great packages for 2 years and this year he has doesn't have that luxury but he is showing what a tremendously skilled driver he is by milking the current car he has for all its worth and getting it up into the points likewise Alonso he can get the most out of an average car.

Massa on the other hand is showing that while he is great with a great car if you give him dog he can do little with it.

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Whatever the reason, I think it's great. Who, a couple of years ago, would have forseen a rookie team leading the constructors', with Red Bull and Toyota following, and Ferrari sitting on 3 points after 4 races. I've just put in my order for some BrawnGP merchandise, they're looking the goods. If it's good enough for Richard Branson to open his chequebook, then they must be onto something.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Four wins out of five for Button. Impressive.

 

1 Jenson Button GB Brawn-Mercedes 41

2 Rubens Barrichello Brz Brawn-Mercedes 27

3 Sebastian Vettel Ger Red Bull-Renault 23

4 Mark Webber Aus Red Bull-Renault 15.5

5 Jarno Trulli Ita Toyota 14.5

6 Timo Glock Ger Toyota 12

7 Lewis Hamilton GB McLaren-Mercedes 9

8 Fernando Alonso Spa Renault 9

9 Nick Heidfeld Ger BMW Sauber 6

10 Nico Rosberg Ger Williams-Toyota 4.5

11 Heikki Kovalainen Fin McLaren-Mercedes 4

12 Felipe Massa Brz Ferrari 3

13 Kimi Raikkonen Fin Ferrari 3

14 Sebastien Buemi Swi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 3

15 Sebastien Bourdais Fra Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1

16 Adrian Sutil Ger Force India-Mercedes 0

17 Nelson Piquet Jr Brz Renault 0

18 Robert Kubica Pol BMW Sauber 0

19 Giancarlo Fisichella Ita Force India-Mercedes 0

20 Kazuki Nakajima Jpn Williams-Toyota 0

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