Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 O.K. I need advice on how to fall down snowboarding. Here is the background story; 1st day I fell down over 150 times had bruises like I never had before but got my heel side turn. 2nd day 50 times to get my toe side and link 'em. Hit my head and got concussed like when you get knocked out and you are aware but your body can't move...3rd day, I've got helmet, back protector, wrist guard and my new Santa Cruise TT Fusion and an instructor and wow! magic happens and in a weeks time I am carving edge to edge and keeping up with my girlfriend who's been boarding for 5 years. 11 days and I can go down pretty straight on steeps. But I have been noticing all this time, when I fall, I really hit hard. Sometimes my shoulders get caught in a strange angle. 12 day, I slip on ice and I land on my wrist and fracture. This season on my 8th day I come down from a quarter pipe, hit a kicker and landed where it was bumpy and fractured my elbow. See, I went to high school in Japan and Judo was compulsory there. I have a habit of taking falls that way. It's a mystery why I didn't break anything on the first two days, but the Judo fall technique didn't help much (?) either. Now I am thinking, When I fall and I am going fast, what to do with my arms!? Is there a correct way to fall? Have you worked out how to fall, or learnt a way that works well? cheers Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Some years ago, +1 had a fall while skiing and cracked a bone in her wrist (not sure now of the name of it, as I said, it was a few years ago and alzheimer's etc...). The radiographer saw the crack and immediately said "ah, snowboarder!" to which the response was "you've gotta be kidding! No!" His point was that the crack he saw was consistent with snwoboarders falling and putting the hand out palm down by instinct. His suggestion (and I have NOT tried it, so have to take his word for it) was that the faller should form a fist and punch the snow rather than going palm first. FWIW. Link to post Share on other sites
blu 3 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You are pushing it to ride above your ability. If you are in control you will not fall as much, if at all. Wrist guards can cause their own problem - use a clenched fist (not open hand)instead. Personally what works for me is either; sort of collapse down to lower your centre of gravity as you fall; or prone out to spread the impact over the full length of your body (protecting the face). The judo breakfall would take the impact on a much smaller area like the arm or shoulder area - not good if its hardpacked. If you tear the AC joint in the shoulder it will be a problem for life (I did). Keep the lessons up & don't fall down hill. Link to post Share on other sites
Sciclone 2 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 My personal preference for falling (it usually takes me over ½ day to get back into snowboarding) is to fall/slowdown toeside.. that way you are not landing hard on your spine/tailbone. Provided you wash off enough speed, it can be pretty easy on everything, and you only have to do a push up to get up again. Watch the knees though as if you land too hard you can get bruises... Otherwise, head for the nearest snow bank at the edge of the run... its less likely to be hard packed than packed down groomers. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks, guys... Recently, I got myself a Salomon Burner for freeride situation, like bombing a bit and pow and hard snow and I love this board. Doesn't slip out under me on icy condition, edging is wow, it's stable and it gets better with speed. I don't fall on this board and I think the reason is I am aware about the speed I am going and the need to be in control. Fusion is so loose I feel I can do things I used to do with ski and more. I like getting into The Zone, where everything slows down, fluid, reactions instinctive..Yes. My friends tell me I go wild on this board and both of my fractures are on this. No, I don't stick my hand out when I fall. I'm not convinced fisting hard packed snow is an improvement. Had a friend who is a doctor and I've taken some lousy advice from him. I wear Level gloves and they are great but if you fall on your wrist, no good. I was on top of Janna bahn, Austria and when I breaked it was icy and next thing was I slipped backwards and my wrist got between the mountain and my body. With the toeside, I'll go with Scicione's advice and I got myself volley ball knee protectors. Blu, so when I fall backwards, I bend my knees and drop the centre of gravity as possibly can, should I bring my arm front and get the back protector to absorb all the impact? Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Of course, getting really wasted the night before is an aid to falling. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I have my dad's allergic to alcohol Japanese genes.. Don't like the taste of it either. Link to post Share on other sites
nzlegend 1 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 falling down? go floppy - relax. Its hard to do but don`t fight it, tensing up is what is causing your injuries IMO. It`s been shown that people who become unconscious and go floppy in massive near fatal epic falls - extreme skiers, climbers etc are more likely to survive than those who remain conscious and try to fight it, the same theory I believe holds true for lesser crashes. I had a massive high speed cartwheeling ragdoll in NZ on hard pack where I blacked out temporalily - not one major injury other than a wicked headache. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Man....how to do that? go floppy... I am going to chew on this. Maybe when you are floppy it's more like some people have better guardian angels? I like it though cheers Link to post Share on other sites
blu 3 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 is your stance setup properly Link to post Share on other sites
Ezorisu 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Sounds like it is more of a, "what you're fallin on," rather than a, "how you're falling," issue. It's pretty diffucult not getting f-ed up when hitting hard packed icy stuff. The lowering of one's center of gravity and therefore the potential energy is a really good idea, but when the fall is sudden and unexpected, there isn't really that much you can consciously do. Breaking the instinct of sticking out a limb to catch a fall is probably the paramount thing, but this also has it's drawbacks - I crashed hard on ice in Banff once and cracked 3 ribs against my folded arm, and I got a type-1 AC separation from randomly catching my edge in Whistler and hitting shoulder/helmet first. Link to post Share on other sites
yamayamayama 2 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 This season, it pays to be a better skier/snowboarder and not fall down! Link to post Share on other sites
Ezorisu 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just get this and everything will be OK! Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I reckon if you're falling hard too frequently you're not riding the board correctly. It may be that you're not using your centre of gravity to steer and therefore your down hill edge is not getting far enough clear of the snow. Watch learner snowboarders and their boards skim along the snow almost flat. They try to ride the edge but because they aren't getting their weight into the turn their down hill edge barely clears the snow - as a result they're constantly catching it and being whipped down hill. These are the falls that really do the damage. Having the board slide out from beneath you can hurt - I've broken some ribs landing toe side facing up the mountain, but the forces aren't anywhere near as bad as catching the dreaded downhill edge. So, the trick is to get the speed up to a good but safe level and commit to the turn, get your weight out over the edge of the board and get your down hill edge up high and clear of the snow. If it helps you can start by keeping your weight low and ride in a low crouch, the weight shift movement then simply becomes a slight sitting down movement for a heel side turn and a slight standing up movement for a toe side turn. Either way, a proper centre of gravity commitment to the turn is the key. When you're in the deeper pow and the nose digs in another trick that works for me is to summersault forward – best done when you’re going a warp speed after coming off the groomers and into the pow. Rather than diving head first into the ground and having the board drag your feet over your head like a scorpion (which bloody hurts), roll with the fall, tuck your head under and do a summersault. It generally hurts less. You could also ditch the safety gear except for the helmet and ride more carefully, but where is the fun in that! Link to post Share on other sites
blu 3 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 not the impact shorts - saves the tailbone (ouch). Link to post Share on other sites
modern_messiah 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Reading this makes me so nervous I'm going to do damage bad enough to ruin my holiday in 2 weeks time. I've never been snowboarding before so I'm expecting quite a few falls... Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 2 weeks? Where are you going? I'm 14 sleeps (down from 253 sleeps) out from a boys' trip to Niseko. Learning to snowboard hurts. There is no getting away from that but my personal theory is that attitude is a big factor in how quickly you progress. If you're not afraid to throw yourself down the hill and committ to the turns you tend not to fall quite as hard. As I say above, beginners who don't get into it and therefore don't have the speed to let them create the right kind of angles in their turns and get their down hill edges off the snow are the ones that get hurt. It is counter intuitive, but when it comes to snowboarding speed is your friend...within reason of course. keep the front edge off the snow and everything is easy or perhaps an another way to say the same thing is, committ to the turn and keep your weight on the edge until you're ready to make another turn and then quickly move your weight to the other edge. Like most things in life, when it comes to snowboarding.....he who hesitates is lost. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Gimp - as a result they're constantly catching it and being whipped down hill. These are the falls that really do the damage. Having the board slide out from beneath you can hurt - I've broken some ribs landing toe side facing up the mountain, but the forces aren't anywhere near as bad as catching the dreaded downhill edge. Amen! I cracked a rib catching an edge in Zermatt on hard packed a few weeks back - not pretty! Since getting the basics I do not often fall 'downhill' anymore - hurts too much. Usually it is uphill. But paying attention to kids, a mine field of death cookies and lack of experience got me big time in one giant smack. RULE NUMBER ONE however is if you do not need a stretcher - you can ride! :-) Bruises are part of the territory I am afraid - if you arent falling then you arent going hard enough and you arent learning anything new. Take heart - you fall less over time. Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 So where is the TR mamabear? Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 So hitting the shoulder happens, sudden slips on ice there's nothing you can do happens, getting the wind knocked out falling forward... understood, shit happens to everyone. I've written off my 1st fracture as bad luck, and my 2nd for going too woo-pee. I'm leaving an edge track like a Alpine carve board with my Burner now. My Italian Instructor taught me to maintain pointing your shoulders in the direction you are going. use knees and put weight in and out, lean to the tip of the board so it goes into the fall line. Now, I can feel the different ways to turn, or rather what the board and I am doing, and at the moment I like it when the board does most of the work for me. I just feel my weight getting into the board and the edge hold, the board flexes like a bow and I release it. I love it. This feels better than ski for sure. I think Fusion is a great board to learn, so easy to turn when slow, the biometric side curve helps heel side turns (I never had any problems heel side anyways) but because the different side curves on each side, it reacts a bit different, how the edge catches, can't go too fast flat running it, heel side slippery when icy. I spent a few days in the beginning finding out my stance and settled at +21, -15 duck Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I contemplated and practiced falling a bit. SG said relaxing is good and it holds true. Goodone! But flapping my arms like a ragdoll is no good because you can get your arms caught and do damage to shoulders. With hands, If you make a fist, one tends to tense up, making it hard to relax. But, if you curl your fingers and form a loose one like you have a small ball in your palms, it works good, I don't catch my fingers and my wrist is more protected from twists and bends. Punching, forget it IMO. I'll try and put my arms to the side of the body so it doesn't get caught between my body. Probably placing my hands next to my head is a good position but arms wider or narrower? Have fun with your stack! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
DJElo 0 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 well, from talking to alot of friends and instructors .. and personal experience .. when you notice you are falling and have the experience and reflexes to know what to do to save yourself, then use these skills.. it takes years of experience and training to be able to "master the art of catching falls " .. but anytime i know i WILL fall i rather try to relax the whole body and just go with it..has saved broken bones and other damage from me and others..so it works Link to post Share on other sites
mrbrisbane 0 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 And it all comes out at the end - ride duck foot in the park if you like / must but if you have your feet pointing in different directions - well physics sort of says you are making life harder than it need be. For goodness sake work out whether you are natural or goofy footed and commit - just like the initiation of your turns - there is no room or time to be wishy washy when you are approaching a tree, cliff, lift pole etc at 60 kph and need to change direction! Even if you do not like what I am saying just take the time to try - leading foot +21 and back foot +10 or 12 ( or maybe even a bit less but nothing less than 0) and do at least 3 runs on familiar terrain. If you still hate it - so be it - you must be different from nearly every one else. As for falling - I have always relied on soften knees ( esp leading one), tuck chin in,elbows in and try to stay loose - which often stops you having the fall in the first place and certainly sets you up for a crowd pleasing recovery/roll out from any spills. I know I get something right because although I have broken a lot of gear, both on skis and boards, (bindings,boots, sticks, even dinged up a helmet on a tree branch enough to throw it out etc) I have never broken any body parts. Helmets help - a lot - both with the courage and in the trees. Good to see that you are getting lessons and as all ski schools keep saying lessons are the short cut to improvement. And remember this is something that you do for fun - pretty hard to say that when you are black and blue or worse still in plaster. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks guys for your kind words... I didn't get any instruction on how to fall from my instructor, and falling when the speed picks up or your body is not in a familiar position is a different story to the introductory how to fall lesson others have gotten. Mr. Brissie, I have to disagree from you. Being a ex-applied physics student at UTS, physics does not explain duck stance makes life more difficult Rather, look at martial arts and study their stance. It is often called the natural stance for good reason. It is stable and well balanced. Look down and check your feet. Mine is duck. I wonder if everyone elses' is ++ I really tried finding the best feel stance in the first 3~4 days carrying a screwdriver and this is it for at the moment. Mind you I am very flexible. I bend forward and my palm is on the floor and I can continue bending. I can nearly do full splits. Sit down with the sole of my feet together and press my knee down and touch the floor. And I like going switch. I'm not into rails and boxes but I like natural bowl and pipe terrain. I see more advantages, (wow, my knees get a even workout and doesn't hurt) (I don't have to sit and flip the board over my head) ( I can go off a little kicker and put a 180)...damn! more fun for me! Lessons help, Agreed ! Going to get some instruction for off-piste stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Ezorisu 0 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Regarding duck, I used to ride both feet "+", but changed this year to "natural" duck stance and: 1) my riding improved, 2) the amount of accumulated pain over several riding days decreased, 3) ability to transition between hard groomers and off-piste powder improved. Link to post Share on other sites
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