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thanks Ryoma, i'll do my best not to upset too many people.

 

its an intersting perspective on a society. By comparison, I virtually dont carry cash and do most transactions over the net or via credit card. Well managed, my annual credit card interest is nil and the bank charges only around $80 a year in fees. also less painful if i misplace my wallet.

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You can use your phone on a train if you dont mind EVERYBODY on the train around you glaring at you, shaking their heads and most likely, some very angry old guy saying "URUSAI" to you. Talking on the phone on the train here is very rude, as is talking loudly, crossing your legs, eating and slouching on your seat. Me and a few friends were talking and laughing on a train once - not particularly loudly, and some old guy came over saying "URUSAI" and "BE SILENT", he then went and pushed one of the girls in our party - an australian-chinese - presumably because he thought she was Japanese (he must've missed the actual Japanese girl with us!), and when we carried on talking (albeit a bit quieter) he came over again saying "BE SILENT" and pushed her again!

Obviously with the tough work culture here, people just want to relax on the train home and dont want to be disturbed.

On the other hand, your front room/living room/dining room/bedroom, between the hours of 8 am and 8 pm becomes an open forum for every salesman/ motorcylce gang member/ public service announcer/ far-right wing nationalist to air his or her views via loudspeaker vans/motorcycle engines/public information announcement systems throughout Japanese cities! Enjoy!

Oh, and dont stand your chopstics in your rice - even I cringed when someone did that at work the other day...

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Originally Posted By: Ryoma
I don't think it'd actually be possible to use a mobile while during rush hour in Tokyo or Osaka razz


In my recent experience on a Tokyo subway at rush hour, it is nigh impossible to breathe, let alone get to the phone to answer it. We were packed so tightly I could not turn to get to the doors that had opened at my station until several people moved out of the train. +1 was so tightly squeezed into the door that they could not have got the doors open, let alone get anyone out.

What amazed me was the number of people who spent the entirety of their rail ride with the mobile out either playing games or sending texts. (Must be a bugger with so many characters to choose from, to send a text! I, a BOF, have trouble with just 25 characters!)
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We should totally start a thread about Japanese customs and ettiquiette!

 

I think the most amazing thing is watching the girls doing their mascara and eyeliner on a train/bus without poking their eyes out in the process.

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Originally Posted By: Gary
You can use your phone on a train if you dont mind EVERYBODY on the train around you glaring at you, shaking their heads and most likely, some very angry old guy saying "URUSAI" to you. Talking on the phone on the train here is very rude, as is talking loudly, crossing your legs, eating and slouching on your seat. Me and a few friends were talking and laughing on a train once - not particularly loudly, and some old guy came over saying "URUSAI" and "BE SILENT", he then went and pushed one of the girls in our party - an australian-chinese - presumably because he thought she was Japanese (he must've missed the actual Japanese girl with us!), and when we carried on talking (albeit a bit quieter) he came over again saying "BE SILENT" and pushed her again!
Obviously with the tough work culture here, people just want to relax on the train home and dont want to be disturbed.
On the other hand, your front room/living room/dining room/bedroom, between the hours of 8 am and 8 pm becomes an open forum for every salesman/ motorcylce gang member/ public service announcer/ far-right wing nationalist to air his or her views via loudspeaker vans/motorcycle engines/public information announcement systems throughout Japanese cities! Enjoy!
Oh, and dont stand your chopstics in your rice - even I cringed when someone did that at work the other day...


Oh dear. I dont think they'll like my lot very much then. They're loud, the laugh (a LOT), and a few will most likey be drunk. It's safe to say there will be some noise.....
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well..just tell them to try and be somewhat respectful while on public transport. I hope they can do that! they can be loud and laugh in a different place then the pt.. Even I who don't live in japan find it very annoying when people talk on the phone or talk loudly when im there..it's relaxing on the tube when it's not packed ofc..it should stay that way.. I would really like for this kind of behavior to become standard in western countries aswell..Ive been in stockholm for the last 2 months visitng family over x-mas and find it utterly amazing that people can't have the respect towards eachother to refrain from talking loudly on the phone, shouting and not just taking it easy and chilling out on the trains and subways..and this isn't just in sweden..

 

so,in the end again..you should REALLY REALLY and i cannot stress enough REALLY in beforehand tell them the customs and ways in japan , especially the part about respecting others and being quiet on public transport...or else you will just enhance the idea of the uneducated,brashfull and ignorant gaijin in japan and then you shouldnt be surprised if your treated differently razz

not to rant or put you down..just a hint wink

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Originally Posted By: gareth_oau
here in Perth, people stil use their phones on the trains/buses, but its done so discreetly and with respect, so best of both worlds

wait a moment..did the world just turn itself upside down??
Aussies and respect for others in one sentence oO ...lol,just joking with ya razz was to good a chance for a kiwi to miss hehe
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Even though it is illegal to do so in most states of Oz, there is plenty of it around here too!

 

Stupid thing, at least in NSW, is that, to avoid a fine, you have to pull off the road, turn off the motor before you answer, otherwise you are defined as "using phone while driving". Dumb!!

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well...i always use handsfree anyway so never botherd me..but man i do hate when i see people in trafic talking on the phone..mostly they have NOOO contact with whats happening around them and drive like lunatics

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Originally Posted By: DJElo
well..just tell them to try and be somewhat respectful while on public transport. I hope they can do that! they can be loud and laugh in a different place then the pt.. Even I who don't live in japan find it very annoying when people talk on the phone or talk loudly when im there..it's relaxing on the tube when it's not packed ofc..it should stay that way.. I would really like for this kind of behavior to become standard in western countries aswell..Ive been in stockholm for the last 2 months visitng family over x-mas and find it utterly amazing that people can't have the respect towards eachother to refrain from talking loudly on the phone, shouting and not just taking it easy and chilling out on the trains and subways..and this isn't just in sweden..

so,in the end again..you should REALLY REALLY and i cannot stress enough REALLY in beforehand tell them the customs and ways in japan , especially the part about respecting others and being quiet on public transport...or else you will just enhance the idea of the uneducated,brashfull and ignorant gaijin in japan and then you shouldnt be surprised if your treated differently razz
not to rant or put you down..just a hint wink



I'm fine with being quiet, I also intend to stay sober for the entire journey - others in my party think I'm just being OTT and think a lot of the customs I’ve mentioned (tattoos in onsens for example) are outdated. They seem to think the Japanese way has succumbed to the ways of the West….. They’re not even taking the cash over debit/credit card thing seriously!!

I have done a lot of reading on their customs & ways but, as I said, I keep beign told these things are outdated. You guys have first hand experience of Japan so I figured asking you was the best way to find out!

Thanks for all of your help on this thumbsup
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Well,then the best suggestion IMO is to let them feel it first hand razz

As you seem to be much more itnerested in the customs and the differences you will appreciate it that much more when the japanese will notice this in you biggrin Let the guys to themselves..let's see how long they can keep it up haha..

don't worry about staying sober though..just head to a bar most nights and dont be surprised if even after downing quite some drinks still being the most sober person there razz

It's not unussual to find lots of business men out drinking if they miss their last train home..esp in tokyo .. in tokyo last july i ran into several business men sleeping peacefully on the sidewalk at 4/5 in the morning using hands as pillow,suit jacket as cover, with their suitcase and shoes neatly places beside them.

was wicked..wished I had my camera with me ;/

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By all means, make as much noise and get as drunk as you like - there are many Japanese that do just that. But they do tend to keep it in the places intended for it. If you are just going to touristy places, then there will be places that accept credit cards ( - even foreign ones!) or tattoos in the onsen, but anywhere even slightly of the tourist trail, you'd be likely to run into problems. If you are just going to Tokyo and Hakuba, you might just get away with it, but I wouldnt count on it....

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It's easy to see so many of the very different customs in Japan as backward, but I think that's a major error. Seems to me that the underlying logic of Japanese customs is about an intense desire not to inconvenience or disturb those around. It's about thoughtfulness, respect and calm. For Aussies, our stuff seems to be increasing driven by our attachment to our own "rights" rather than thoughtfulness about the needs of others.

 

To my eyes, after two trips in the past 12 months, Japan is an altogether more civilised, gentle, chilled place, even in the midst of a tokyo peak hour train crush. The place has an elegant sense of flow about it - mobile phones on trains is a good example of that, so is the complete and utter absence of litter (in spite of all that packaging). There's exceptions to the thoughtfulness principle (e.g. smoking in restaurants) but it generally holds true.

 

Yabby, if your mob invaded my space with loud drunken raucousness, I'd be peeved too. The people that do this in Japan really stick out like dogs balls. In Sydney, you'd never be noticed.

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Nice post, Grazza! You pretty much nailed it about the whole, "inconveniencing others," bit.

 

This gets into the whole tattoo thing - the public bath or onsen managers don't want to have other patrons freaked out at the possibility that their establishment is frequented by gangsters, so hence the rule. To prevent any conflict because of, "I'm not a gangster, but I have a faashionable tattoo," versus, "I'm really a gangster but I'm saying I'm not," the rule is concrete and unbendable.

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Grazza's pretty much on point. The customs and mannerisms from Japan stem from the belief in connections from Buddhism. The point is, when you inconvenience someone, you lose something yourself and so respecting someone elses space is a crucial point.

 

To understand the taboo behind tattoos, you need to understand two major principles. A Japanese style tattoo is quite painful, the reason being is that when you are inducted into a family, you are to be reminded of where you are and to pay for your karma before hand. Secondly, it's the concept of keeping your body clean in order to be spiritually clean. Cleanliness is a big issue in Japan (I honestly don't think OCD is unusual in this country). Both cause discomfort or distrust to the average person. Even within the Yakuza, the only time you really show your tattoos is when you have your blood bonding rituals. The relatively recent wars between the Yamaguchi-gumi and the Ichiwakai doesn't leave behind good memories. I believe you are also required to cover up tattoos for Disney Land/Sea, USJ and the other theme parks, security is also allowed to prevent entry.

 

There are also a lot of double-standards and contradictions within the customs but most of the time it's a case of "we do it because it's what's always been done".

Example: eating while walking is considered quite rude (though drinking is okay) but street-side vendors are common-place in Osaka.

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well,about the tattoo thing it's quite a shame as japan has a long standing tradition of great tattooing..it was first really banned in the 1930's(i think) because one didn't want the outsiders who were now arriving in japan to think badly about it..since then the yakuza has been using it etc..

It really is a shame as I said. Japanese traditional tattoo art is sooo beautiful, full of history and tradition smile

If you take a look the pacific islands and new zealand, tattoo's are a very important part of our society, atleast among the islanders and the mauri..in the same sense it used to be in japan..so it really is a shame it's changed so in japan..although im sure it will come back again in the future..there is just so much tradition there biggrin

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no,not yet..a friend of mine who is really big into pacific island and japanese tattoo's is pretty filled with both of them though and he's been doing some sketches for a jap. style black n white arm piece biggrin

hopefully this season will have my left arm covered up and some more work on chest piece which is atm in celtic style+ some addition to the right side.

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