Oh my Good god!!

[Jynxx 4]

I'll say it again. You guys are all right. Just to clarify myself I'll state the following. I'm a naturalized Japanese Australian ('88) and because I used to work as an interpreter that got me to a lot of places and meeting people in different industries.. I don't know if I am disgruntled, but I admit Australia is no longer the country I fell in love with 30 years ago.

The values have changed. The ones that haven't changed, like Aussies are charitable when things go up shit creek are purely admirable. Down to earth warm hearted. Stuff of Henry Lawson. And the sense of humor Aussies have always crack me up. But, when it comes to racial tension and violence, I shit you not it is there. The Cronulla incident was waiting to happen, because that was the place people went to pick up fights between the middle eastern and anglo. Haven't you seen some 18 year olds being punched by a 14 year old middle eastern and he let's it happen or otherwise out comes this kid's mobile and taxi loads of his relatives comes and joins in !? A friend of mine and I drop in at his mates parents place where he lives, he freaks out and goes, "Don't bring a Asian ! It's my parent's place I'll be in trouble when things gets stolen". I have a friend whose Dad is racially sensitive. After a while I became alright in his books. One arvo we were at his BBQ and he pull me aside and said " I'm sure you are sick of hearing this Pauline Hansen stuff, but it's just ghosts in the closet" I was really impressed to hear that from him.

There are still Black pubs and White Pubs. I new a guy who's Dad has a habit of picking fights with Asians. Kind of reminded me of sharpies and poofter bashing in the late '70s

If you live in a town in Oz and it's all good, goodonya! I've been around Oz a while and seen a lot of things change.. good and bad....I am still optimistic. But what Howard had done was to make Australia a terrorist target by being "mini-me of Bush" and gave excuse of making Australia a police state, "We are trying to protect you" bull-crap.

I try not to be too bias. I went to preparatory school in London in the late 60's. Now that was just 20 years after the war. I remember Yorkshire being a friendly place. But my favorite was Scotland. Kids came out and played with me. We got invited to dance. My Dad wanted to retire in Scotland..so I reckon I am pretty multi-cultural. To be fair, I liked Australia better than Japan so I ended up staying there and even had been married to an Aussie girl of Scottish decent... I'll always miss the beach, rainforests, deserts, fresh fruit and vegies..gees that was a long rave..

cheers

[Mantas 3]

That's a good story Jynxx.

 

I have know doubt you suffered some racism during your time here. I attended an ANTI Pauline Hanson in the 90's and believe me, there were 20 times more people outside the hall protesting than inside at the meeting. Ignorant rednecks live in every country and we certainly have our share. But I wont except that we are a racist country. How could we be, the country was built on immigration from many different countries.

Those dickheads in Cronulla and the Pauline Hanson thing were small isolated events, a blip on the radar. Blown way out of proportion by the media.

 

We have many different ethic backgrounds in our small community, my kids often play with dark skinned children while we talk to their parents. I've never even asked where they are from, it doesn't matter, no one cares. One of the songs our kids often sing at school starts with the lines.

 

"We are one but we are many and from all the lands on earth we come"

 

I love hearing the kids sing it.

I do a lot of work in schools and just about all of them these days fly the aboriginal flag right next to the Australian one, yep, two flag poles.

 

It irks me a bit when people CHOOSE to come and live here then CHOOSE to leave because they didn't fit in and then turn around and blame the Australian people.

For every person that leaves this country unhappy, there is a hundred more waiting to get in. So it can't be that bad can it?

 

Come back and visit us again Jynxx. (Pauline Hanson and John Howard are gone now )

 

 

[stemik 14]

nice post Mantas....it brought a tear to my eye!

[Jynxx 4]

I hear you mate, and thanks again for your kind words. Yes, the kids are our future.. For me, still, Australia is a nice place to live. Otherwise I wouldn't have been there for that long.

I really don't fit in anywhere. That's the conclusion I arrived at and more importantly, it doesn't matter... I miss Japan the older I get, but it's sad you can never become equals if one is a different age there. No doubt I miss the "she'll be right mate" Aussie way. But I'll miss my girl the most if I'm not with her. So I follow my bliss... and it's so much fun snowboarding with her.

People come and go, No blame, I am responsible for how I feel. I am Japanese. I am Australian, I don't need to wave any flags or defend any social values or reputation. I just have mine. But honestly, multiculturalism is not working very well in Australia although many dream and aspire to it. I hope it doesn't just end as a politicians' sales pitch. It's up to us, but do we really live up to all that talk !? I suppose having expectations and disappointments are part of life. But I am not blaming anyone. I did my part in bridging the gap, at least while I was there.

cheers...

damn, that's a good song...

[Ezorisu 0]

Very interesting to hear your impressions, Jynxx, Mantas. It's been educational for me.

[JA2340 16]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Nimbin is not typically Australian, but nor is Tamworth where people pretend it's Nashville and wear cowboy hats and boots like yanks... yeah, right..I've lost touch.

OK, Tamworth claims to be the "Country Music Capital" of Australia. The festival itself runs for a single week in January. (FWIW, I ski Japan most of January, just about far enough away from the crowds) The rest of the year - that's 51 weeks or thereabouts - the place is a largeish country city. Full of normal people doing normal people things.

I have lived here for 31 years, rarely see anyone in "cowboy hats and boots like yanks".

There are people of many racial origins here, all get along very well and there's little tension (some hassles with drunken yobs, but they'd be a problem in whatever country you were) between the racial groups. Simply put - you are well out of touch, especially if your experience of Oz was limited to the coastal fringe and "major cosmopolitan" (not sure how you define cosmopolitan) towns like Nimbin (really just a hamlet - 20 houses and 40 people and a few dogs) and Byron, a sleepy coastal town.

If you've moved on, and no longer live here, I don't know how you can realistically discuss the "Australian values" as they exist now.

[Jynxx 4]

Yeah, what ever JA.

Just proved to me you never been to Byron, or Nimbin.

Something abnormal about people who claim to be normal ...

Fair suck in the sauce bottle to you.

[JA2340 16]

When in doubt, and out of reasoned argument, resort to name calling. Now, where's the ignore button?

[Jynxx 4]

Reasoned argument? your kidding..

you finished ? Or do I have to point you to the ignore button... in your dunny

[Go Native 70]

I for one am glad I don't live in Aus anymore. I too noticed a huge change in society during the Howard years and vowed I would never ever return to the place until he was ousted (the fact he lasted so long just confirmed to me that Aus was not the place for me). I agree with Jynxx that there's a lot of racial tension in Aus, mostly under the surface and rarely seen openly but don't kid yourself it's definitely there.

What really got to me about Aus society after years of right wing rule was that about the only thing anyone cared about was making money. I felt there was definitely a bugger everyone and everything else as long as I'm getting rich attitude. That was not the sort of society I wanted to live in so the choice to move to Japan was not a hard one. Sure Australia is by no means a bad place to live but having lived elsewhere I can say, at least for me, it's by no means the best place to live either.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Good point TB. There was a lot of anti-japanese sentiment around in Oz after the war, and for good reason.
I'll stand by the bollocks comment when he makes statements like.

" I reckon a lot of people lost touch when there's a lot of racial tension and violence."

There's not 'a lot' of racial tension and violence. In fact if you dismissed that small area of Sydney, there's practically none. I live in a small town that's predominantly Anglo and the few asian (and other denominations) families that live here are quite happy with there lot. To suggest that they suffer racism here is laughable.

Why does everybody love to play the victim?

Like you say Mantas, EVERY country in the world has some of these underlying tensions, I certainly thought in my short time in Australia that it was still a little more overtly racist than other countries I have been in. Now don't get me wrong, I didn't think that it was South Africa in the 1960's, I loved Australia, I thought that it was laid back and overall friendly BUT there was still an undercurrant just under the surface. You rightly point to the fact that its a country built on immigration from all the worlds nations, however so is America and look at the problems and racial tensions that are there. When I was up in the north west of Australia, we were in some real wild west towns and like any young backpackers were often in need of amber refreshment. When asking at the campsites etc for pubs, often we were told which pubs were the "white pubs" and which were the "black pubs" which definitely shocked me, I didn't think this happened and when I asked about it they said that of course it wasn't a law and I could go into the black pub if I wanted to but they advised me against it

[JA2340 16]

TB,

It ('told which pubs were the "white pubs" and which were the "black pubs" ') doesn't happen anywhere as much now - I suspect you're talking a few years ago.

 

In Newcastle a few years ago, there was a "gay" pub, a "warfie's" pub and a "bikie's" pub. There was no law against going into any of these either, but anyone who wasn't a warfie who walked into 'their' pub was likely to get a hard time, etc, etc.

 

Fact is that like pepople tend to gravitate together, happens in pubs too!

[Mantas 3]

>When asking at the campsites etc for pubs, often we were told which pubs were the "white pubs" and which were the "black pubs" which definitely shocked me, I didn't think this happened and when I asked about it they said that of course it wasn't a law and I could go into the black pub if I wanted to but they advised me against it<

 

I would advise against it as well. Just as I would advise you not to go into a bikie pub or any other pub where you might be exposed to some unpleasant attention. Did you go into a 'black pub'?

The yarning gap between white and black Australia is a real challenge for all Australians. The sins of the past ie. The White Australia philosophy and The stolen generation don't help things much. The current governments apology to all the bad deeds of the past is a step in the right direction along with recognition of native title, but honestly what more do they want? What more can we do for them? Do they want to turn back the clock and send all us Euro/Asian/Middle Eastern types that have been here for 6 generations back to where we come from. Of course not. So the only way is forward is reconciliation, and at this point the onus has shifted back the the indigenous community. IMO.

 

An interesting side note.

A mate of mine works in the National Parks system, a dream job. The LAW requires that a certain number of his coworkers be aboriginal. That's a LAW that states black skinned people has priority over white skin people despite the fact that they often don't show up for work and really don't care. My mate has to cover their workload.

A minor issue but a real example of how tension is created.

[Go Native 70]

I agree that aboriginal communities need to be more self empowered and especially more reponsible for their own destinies. Certainly the time for the blame game is over however justified it may be.

I don't have a problem with some affirmitive action though as we cannot claim that all aboriginies have the same amount of opportunities as the rest of the population. Many live in remote communities that have little access to quality education, healthcare or any of the services that most in Aus society enjoy. It's not always an even playing field out there and affirmitive action can assist in turning this around.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

>When asking at the campsites etc for pubs, often we were told which pubs were the "white pubs" and which were the "black pubs" which definitely shocked me, I didn't think this happened and when I asked about it they said that of course it wasn't a law and I could go into the black pub if I wanted to but they advised me against it<

I would advise against it as well. Just as I would advise you not to go into a bikie pub or any other pub where you might be exposed to some unpleasant attention. Did you go into a 'black pub'?
The yarning gap between white and black Australia is a real challenge for all Australians. The sins of the past ie. The White Australia philosophy and The stolen generation don't help things much. The current governments apology to all the bad deeds of the past is a step in the right direction along with recognition of native title, but honestly what more do they want? What more can we do for them? Do they want to turn back the clock and send all us Euro/Asian/Middle Eastern types that have been here for 6 generations back to where we come from. Of course not. So the only way is forward is reconciliation, and at this point the onus has shifted back the the indigenous community. IMO.

An interesting side note.
A mate of mine works in the National Parks system, a dream job. The LAW requires that a certain number of his coworkers be aboriginal. That's a LAW that states black skinned people has priority over white skin people despite the fact that they often don't show up for work and really don't care. My mate has to cover their workload.
A minor issue but a real example of how tension is created.

I agree with you Mantas, fact is that both white and black australia are both Australian. There is nothing that can be changed, the generations who have been born there are as Australian as the aboriginal generations that live there, both now need to live together, like it or lump it.

As a matter of fact we didn't go into the black pub or the white pub, there were some crazy noises coming from both, like I said it was like the wild west. we found a Bottle-o and got ourselves a slab of beer and drank inside the campsite.

JA it was a few years ago, but not long. This was in 2004

[Mantas 3]

Unlike a lot of Australians I don't care how much of the tax payers money gets spent on Aboriginal welfare. We are a wealthy nation and we can afford it.

The one thing that irks a lot of people is the fact that they demand equality on one hand and special conditions, laws, welfare arrangements on the other.

 

In the words of Tania Major (aboriginal young Australian of the year). Some aboriginals' have the attitude of "I'm black, you owe me."

 

Glad to see you got off the back packer trail TB and got an insight into Australian society more so than most visitors.

 

Geez, how did this thread get from a man in a train station in Tokyo wearing a mini skirt to aboriginal issues in North Western Australia.

 

 

[Tubby Beaver 209]

haha yeah not exactly conversation fellows eh?

 

North west Oz was the best part of my trip, not many backpackers around to be honest. We drove from Perth in the south, all the way north to Broome, then east to Darwin then south through the middle to alice and then Adelaide. In the Kimberleys we went up the Mitchel River, camped at some beauty places, hired a plane to see the Bungles and question mark hill...truly a trip of a lifetime

[Jynxx 4]

It's really good thread ... in many ways.

Out of respect to snowdude, Transvestites are respected in Japanese society. A lot of them you can't even tell cos they really look like girls. When you look at traditional Japanese theatre like Kabuki, the female roll is played by men and they are the stars of the show. On the other gender, there is Takarazuka musical theatre (Takarazuka is a town near Osaka in Hyogo prefecture) and it's all girls cast. There are transvestite night clubs where young people and business people alike goes and admire them... good huh!

 

If you are a male and you have an oppotunity to approach an Aboriginal group, they like it when one of you first come. When they are seated and you are standing, it's not respectable.

so get down to their eye level. When you are Japanese, you do sometimes get invited to join their group sitting under the tree, for tucker (lunch) especially when you are on your own.

Pretty generous I'll say....

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Yeah I was walking thru a park in Perth and there was a group sitting under a tree, they shouts over "Hey brutha..." and started to walk over to me and my brother, I thought "great, speaking to a bit of the locals, nice one" then he says "Give me 10 bucks!". He got told where to go in no uncertain terms, 10 bucks from a backpacker?? Good one, he probably had more money than me!!

[thursday 1]

Jynxx, opera ain't the Jones in Surbiton. A very big difference.

[charlotte 0]

Quote:

Transvestites are respected in Japanese society

There seems to be a fair few of them in the "talent" world on tv all the time.

[charlotte 0]

Cant think of their names

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Alfie and Jock

[Mantas 3]

Bruce and Sharon

[Ezorisu 0]

Transvestie geinojin I can handle. Haado gei I can handle. I can't stand Kojima Yoshio!

 

ãã‚“ãªã®é–¢ä¿‚ã­ã‡!

 

Geez!