Go Native 70 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 You want to judge others? Then be prepared to be judged yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: snowdude GO NATIVE do not tell me I am small minded, bigoted and hateful, you do not know me at all!! I understand my daughter will see all sorts of things in her life as she grows up and I have no intention of wrapping her up in cotton wool either. And yes I can explain things to her as needed! I am simply saying it is never the less despite this day and age, someone like that in their 40's dressed like that just plain looks wrong, stands out a mile! That is all! Now if we can't have a proper discussion about this then forget it!!!! I know lets kill this topic!! Originally Posted By: snowdude but when you see just one person like that walking through a station it stands out. For all of you who seem to support this alternative lifestyle, maybe you don't have small kids, because had my daughter been with me and noticed him, it would be rather confusing for her and not easy for me to try to explain to her!!! That is my point behind all this, there are places such as kabukicho, for people like that. A very busy station with where small kids around is not! I don't understand why you attacked only GN and not me - but seriously. your thinking is starting to worry me. Stating there are places for 'that kind of person' harks back to apartheid, racial segregation, ethnic clensing etc. Where does it all start, and where does it all end? I personally think that this is a very good topic, in the UK, people often get seven shades of poop kicked out of them for attempting to be different or stick out. Yet this man, feels comfortable enough to express who he is, and what he wants to do. Who are you to say what he can or can't do, where he can and can't go? And you were walking through Shinjuku station - which just happens to be next to ni-chome, what did you expect to see in this area?! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: snowdude GO NATIVE do not tell me I am small minded, bigoted and hateful, you do not know me at all!! I may not know you but you have revealed plenty about yourself on this topic. The fact that you cannot see how terrible the things you've said about this person are reveals even more. Maybe you just expected everyone on this forum to agree with your horrible sentiments but as you can see you were very wrong. I'm sure there are other forums on neo nazi sites or the like where your comments would be agreed to wholeheartedly. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I say you should of 'kicked seven shades of poop' out of him, stripped him of his mini-skirt, dessed him in a shale grey suit and tie, then marched him off to his train platform with the other 6 million men . Link to post Share on other sites
torihada 2 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have two young kids; if they have a question I try to answer it truthfully and without embarrassment, it'll save them a lot of issues later in life. The trouble is, intolerance and prejudice is learnt and passed on from generation to generation; I think more upsetting to a child is not a man in a skirt but seeing a parent upset & annoyed. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well, just by me calling a tranny a tranny is perhaps affirming the sterotyped intollerance we were brought up with. But that could be a load of bollox. I don't think I would have the guts to do that. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Kids are lot more perceptive and tolerant and matter of fact than we give them credit for methinks....or perhaps I have just been fortunate with mine... Our internet booked hotel in Munich just happened to be in a thriving inner city hub where there were perhaps 5 or 6 sex shops on each of the surrounding streets including our own. Our little innoncent 9 yr old amused us greatly when he piped up with "just off down the table dance club for a while, I am bored." and likewise when he saw an older fellow stroll into a Girls Girls Girls club right in front of him.."Hope he remembered to pack a condom!". For him it was out of the ordinary, not the kind of thing we usually are around, and he found his comfort with it cracking jokes - but not the kind that hurt anyone else. I was pleased with his maturity. It is most certainly confronting to see someone so obviously male in a mini skirt and ladies boots...but only because it is not a sight often seen. Perhaps if it was a more common sighting people would get over it and just let them be. Reminds me of the time my eldest son, then just 2 yrs old, pronounced very very loudly upon seeing a heavily tattooed biker in the store "UM-AH Mummy, That naughty man did draw ALL over his self!!" So what? I dealt with it, the guy was not offended, he laughed, and my boy got a lesson in difference. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Very good examples, Mama. The intolerance displayed in this thread is symptomatic of the same intolerance that brings about "poofter bashings" and such. As mentioned, theyt are learned from example, mostly parental example. I, myself, am not inclined to be thrilled by watching such things, but I do not believe that I would display such bigotry as here displayed. My kids are well beyond the age where I can (or indeed should) influence their thinking - baby girl is 24! - but I would have hoped that my influence, such as it was, would not have been as negative as some I have read here. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 The bigotry displayed here is just by one person, though, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 yeah. If he wants to wear a mini skirt and thigh length boots then let him do it. Maybe he was disgusted by the brand of trainers you were wearing but he didn't say anything to you eh?? I don't understand the NIMBY people, "yeah thats ok as long as its not in front of my face", well just stay inside then, cos last time I checked you weren't God and you didn't rule the world so that means people are free to express themselves as they so wish. There is no law against it, society still somehow managed to continue and presumably your child wouldn't have spontaenously combusted if she had saw him!! Link to post Share on other sites
gareth_oau 2 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I find it amusing that in this thread most are supporting the right to free will, and the right to be open about it (which I support), and yet in another current thread, i'm not allowed to speak loudly on a telephone nor show a tattoo out of respect for others? seems like we live a a world of double and triple standards? Link to post Share on other sites
xxx 2 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So are they the same people? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: gareth_oau I find it amusing that in this thread most are supporting the right to free will, and the right to be open about it (which I support), and yet in another current thread, i'm not allowed to speak loudly on a telephone nor show a tattoo out of respect for others? seems like we live a a world of double and triple standards? The other thread is advice on cultural norms. You still have free will whether to respect them or not, your choice! No double or triple standards I can see. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 He has a good point GN. The guy in the mini skirt wasn't exactly respecting 'cultural norms' either, yet everyone is rushing to his defence. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 There is a difference I think in respecting the culture of a country that you are visiting, one that is not your own, and in trying to be someone that you are not in your own locale because other people might not be confortable with the fact that you are different. Not talking loudly on the phone is being polite. Tattoo's in Onsens has a history behind it, but I think in this day and age of cultural diversity and less negative connotations attached to tattoo's there is definate reason for Onsens to be relaxing a bit about this! But change takes time. What we would expect though is that while change is coming that if someone is refused entry due to a tat that it would be done with respect and understanding of the tattooed persons feelings. The difference here is that the miniskirt wearing fellow would have spent years fighting his own internal battle and finally found his peace with his identity, he was not trying to harm anyone or forcing anyone to watch him sashay down the street. He deserves simply to be left in peace. A private giggle to deal with your own discomfort is one thing, sharing what you saw with mates over a beer and laugh can even be understood. But being outraged at thier existance is crossing the line. That is where the difference in issues is I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mantas He has a good point GN. The guy in the mini skirt wasn't exactly respecting 'cultural norms' either, yet everyone is rushing to his defence. Mantas he has no point whatsoever. As I said he has free will to choose whether or not he respects cultural norms. In my opinion there are many cultural norms in this country that should be wholeheartedly challenged. Just because I'm a foreigner doesn't mean I should just blindly follow and accept every little thing about this country's culture. Like our mini skirted lady boy I've never believed in just fitting in and allowing society to dictate how you should act. If Gareth feels the need to use his mobile on a train or blazenly display his tattoos in an onsen then go for it I say. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mantas He has a good point GN. The guy in the mini skirt wasn't exactly respecting 'cultural norms' either, yet everyone is rushing to his defence. Is it just possible that he/she was heading out to a fancy-dress party?? Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I dont know nor care. If he had shown up at my door to take my daughter out on a date then sure, I wouldn't be too happy about it. If that makes me a bigot then so be it. These wackos, non-conformists, transexuals....whatever they are, make the world a colourful place, if I had seen him I would've had a good giggle and maybe, if I remembered, retold the story later. That's about all the attention I'd give it. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Right there with you, Mantas. I was just asking a (very) tongue in cheek question. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 storm in a tea cup Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Prejudice, racism and all other fears and loathings of difference have been the causes of many of the worlds greatest atrocities through history. It's good to confront and challenge such things wherever they rear their ugly head. Remember evil wins when good people sit back and do nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: gareth_oau I find it amusing that in this thread most are supporting the right to free will, and the right to be open about it (which I support), and yet in another current thread, i'm not allowed to speak loudly on a telephone nor show a tattoo out of respect for others? seems like we live a a world of double and triple standards? Nope, not at all double/triple standards. One comment was bigotted; your's, even though the original idea was discriminatory against you, was not bigotted. Seeing as you are a visitor in another country, you should obey/follow their cultural idiosyncrasies. Now, seing as Japan has a history of disallowing tattoos in onsen's due to Yakuza links, you should follow this. If you go to a Muslim country, which more often then not, forbid the importing of pornography, you wouldn't go against this would you? Ok the punishment doesn't necessarily fit the crime in this case, but the point is the same. Link to post Share on other sites
gareth_oau 2 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I'm a bit confused here rob. i'm now accused of being a bigot? All i was doing was observing the chains of discussions in two unrelated threads which to me showed signs of double standards. I was not stating that I would blazenly show off tattoos, in fact, I dont actually have any to show I am quite respectful of oher peoples' customs and beliefs but, having said that, it doesnt mean I have to embrace them. There are a lot of customs in my own culture that I dont embrace, for example I dont like shaking hands, I dont chink glasses when drinking, i dont throw salt over my shoulder etc, I think they are all pointless exercises, but out of respect, I will shake someone's hand if it means so much to them. (the custom of shaking hands evolved to demonstrate you werent carrying a knife) in fact, i'm quite sure if you actually analysed a lot of customs they probably had some level of ignorance, narrowmindeness, bigotry etc behind them, and its those who are willing to challenge those customs that allow appropriate changes to occur. (I am left handed, and once upon a time, custom would have me burned as a witch???) So. I will respect custom, but if an urgent phone call comes in, I will take it, and try my respectful best to be discreet at the same time (and I won't be flashing any tattoos whilst on the phone! ) Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I didn't say yours was bigotted at all Link to post Share on other sites
gareth_oau 2 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright Originally Posted By: gareth_oau I find it amusing that in this thread most are supporting the right to free will, and the right to be open about it (which I support), and yet in another current thread, i'm not allowed to speak loudly on a telephone nor show a tattoo out of respect for others? seems like we live a a world of double and triple standards? Nope, not at all double/triple standards. One comment was bigotted, your's, even though the original idea was discriminatory against you, was not bigotted. Seeing as you are a visitor in another country, you should obey/follow their cultural idiosyncrasies. Now, seing as Japan has a history of disallowing tattoos in onsen's due to Yakuza links, you should follow this. If you go to a Muslim country, which more often then not, forbid the importing of pornography, you wouldn't go against this would you? Ok the punishment doesn't necessarily fit the crime in this case, but the point is the same. sorry rob, It would appear I misunderstood the above comment then Link to post Share on other sites
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