Cigarettes up by 3 yen a fag

[gerard 6]

I thought the incidence was higher than that so I checked out lung cancer on wikipedia and these were the stats they gave:

 

>Among male smokers, the lifetime risk of developing lung cancer is 17.2%; among female smokers, the risk is 11.6%. This risk is significantly lower in nonsmokers: 1.3% in men and 1.4% in women.

 

There's a pretty big discrepancy there compared to your stats, GN! Most of those people die too. They said the five year survival rate was something like 17%!! which I found surprisingly low. Not to mention the risk of other diseases like emphasema and heart disease, and decline in overall fitness and health. I used to smoke. I went into my 'I'm quitting smoking' phase when I was around 25 but didn't give it up permanently until I was around 30.

 

If you enjoy smoking and you're not bothering anyone, then keep smoking, really! But I think your statistics are a little off. What bugs me about it in Japan is just the hypocracy of society, with their warped attitudes towards something like pot, compared to alcohol and tobaco, plus I think that tabaco companies are pretty evil.

[Go Native 70]

Well I'm not sure about the sources of your stats either. Mine were simply getting a figure for the frequency of naturally occurring lung cancer which was somewhere around 14-17 in 100,000. Then I found that smoking supposedly increases this risk by 10-15 times. So by that worst case scenario is that among smokers the rate goes up to about 255 in 100,000. Still a pretty small percentage. Stats was never a strong point of mine so maybe I'm missing something.

 

Did find the following though, source: Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Volume 95, Number 6, 19 March 2003 , pp. 470-478(9)

Quote:

Background: Although there is no proven benefit associated with screening for lung cancer, screening programs are attracting many individuals who perceive themselves to be at high risk due to smoking. We sought to determine whether the risk of lung cancer varies predictably among smokers. Methods: We used data on 18,172 subjects enrolled in the Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial (CARET)—a large, randomized trial of lung cancer prevention—to derive a lung cancer risk prediction model. Model inputs included the subject’s age, sex, asbestos exposure history, and smoking history. We assessed the model’s calibration by comparing predicted and observed rates of lung cancer across risk deciles and validated it by assessing the extent to which a model estimated on data from five CARET study sites could predict events in the sixth study site. We then applied the model to evaluate the risk of lung cancer among smokers enrolled in a study of lung cancer screening with computed tomography (CT). Results: The model was internally valid and well calibrated. Ten-year lung cancer risk varied greatly among participants in the CT study, from 15% for a 68-year-old man who has smoked two packs per day for 50 years and continues to smoke, to 0.8% for a 51-year-old woman who smoked one pack per day for 28 years before quitting 9 years earlier. Even among the subset of CT study participants who would be eligible for a clinical trial of cancer prevention, risk varied greatly. Conclusions: The risk of lung cancer varies widely among smokers. Accurate risk prediction may help individuals who are contemplating voluntary screening to balance the potential benefits and risks. Risk prediction may also be useful for researchers designing clinical trials of lung cancer prevention.

 

So still an 85% chance the 68 yo guy who's smoked 2 packs a day for 50 years won't develop lung cancer! I really don't mind those odds at all

 

 

 

[JA2340 16]

GN, as ger said, if you aren't bothering anyone else then go ahead, kill yourself! My main worry is that there are inconsiderate morons (in any country) who'll just light up after they've finished their meal and blow their smoke all over MY food and me. I wonder if they'd mind me pissing in their food because in is my habit to have a leak after a meal, and I should not have to put myself out by going to a designated area to enjoy my habit, should I?

 

Now, before you start - it is EXACTLY the same thing. Restaurants should be designated non-smoking areas - forever and everywhere. Mamabear's comment on the beergarden is accepted, the staff aren't expected to endure the smell and foul taste of smoke while they eat, people in the beergarden chose to be there knowing that there would be smokers there, that's THEIR problem! I go to a restaurant to eat nice (or, if I'm lucky, wonderful) food! I do not expect to have to breath smoke polluted air while I eat it!

[Go Native 70]

JA you should stay away from Japan then as it's not considered inconsiderate to light up after a meal here.

[bobby12 0]

JA - YEAH!

 

Of the 1.3% of nonsmokers how get lung cancer If like to know what % of that got it from passive smoking. At least 50% I would imagine.

 

GNs comments show that, somehow, there is clearly still is a fair % of smokers who are ignorant about how repulsive and disgusting non-smokers find their foul pollution to be. People are too polite, they just get up and leave, maybe give a dirty look at best. Smokers need to be told.

[rach 1]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

JA you should stay away from Japan then as it's not considered inconsiderate to light up after a meal here.

That's changing though isn't it? I think people are a lot more aware, though some of course not.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I think really a good management plan needs to be implemented. Clearly unless thier are places for smokers to be where they feel comfortable and happy and accepted they will continue to smoke wherever they can, regardless of how that impacts on others.

 

Back to my Melbourne domestic airport example.

No smoking in the airport at all.

At the exits it is marked with yellow lines around all the doors that says NO SMOKING ZONE. There are area's not close to the doorways that are not yellowed out where smoking is permitted but is that where people smoke? No! It is anywhere at all along the path and in front of the doorways.

 

You have a throng of people with bags fagging on in groups blocking the paths and forcing thier smoke on people walking from one end to the other, or waiting for a taxi. Clearly any area's set aside for smoking are either inconvenient or not large enough.

 

So if the authorities at Melbourne Airport were keen to make smoking less of a problem they would provide an inside vented and comfortable smoking room, and an outdoor area (preferrably screened to prevent massive wafting of 2nd hand smoke below 6ft)and maybe a few of them.

 

This would provide places where people who smoke can go and do so comfortably and without being judged, or in fear of being scowled at in a social environment with others who similarly enjoy thier habit.

It would allow for public accessways to be unblocked, and passing pedestrians able to walk through without fighting thier way through the smokers.

It will remove smoking from public display, therefore exposing our kids to it less in both psychological accpetance and also physical exposure.

 

Raise taxes, yes. Use the money to build/provide for separate area's for people to smoke in. It is win win.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

JA you should stay away from Japan then as it's not considered inconsiderate to light up after a meal here.

or before, or during, or during your eating break, of after, or just after you had a sip of beer...

things are changing, but at the speed of molasses

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: bobby12

JA - YEAH!

Of the 1.3% of nonsmokers how get lung cancer If like to know what % of that got it from passive smoking. At least 50% I would imagine.

GNs comments show that, somehow, there is clearly still is a fair % of smokers who are ignorant about how repulsive and disgusting non-smokers find their foul pollution to be. People are too polite, they just get up and leave, maybe give a dirty look at best. Smokers need to be told.

And you think they haven't been told?

As I said I like living in a place where I'm not made to feel like I'm committing manslaughter on all those around me every time I light up. Frankly I think all the foreign run bars and restaurants in Niseko that have banned smoking are being incredibly culturally insensitive. Little wonder these places are filled with mostly foreigners in winter. The Japanese like to be able to smoke during a meal or while having a drink.

[JA2340 16]

IIRC, the King Bell at Hirafu went non-smoking between my first visit (Jan 06) and the next one (Jan 07). Didn't seem to cause too much problem for the place - made heaps of money still. OK, I know, captive audience, but the smulkers all went to the 1000m hut.

 

GN, As I have said, you are welcome to do whatever you like in your own little bubble, but if it impinges on my bubble, I will speak out. We have taken to asking at the door of a restaurant if there is a "non-smoking" area. If not, we very pointedly walk out. The message will get through, eventually!

[Go Native 70]

Some restaurants like Abu-cha restrict smoking in winter and allow it in summer.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Whats the reasoning behind that then?

[stemik 14]

I hazard a guess - foreign clietile

[thursday 1]

foreign winter, local summer.

[bobby12 0]

less customers in summer therefore cannot afford to be picky.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Well just lucky Japan is not such a litigious community now isn't it?

 

THAT is when change happens .... when the staff start sueing the employer/owner for having to work in smoke filled quarters which contributed to thier lung cancer, heart attack stroke...

 

...when long term patrons begin a class action suit against the publican....

 

I never thought I would see the level of US litigation in Aus, but it has begun - the nuisance suits and all - so it might take a while, but progress (good or bad) will likely arrive in Japan.

[nzlegend 1]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

JA you should stay away from Japan then as it's not considered inconsiderate to light up after a meal here.

eh? like hell it isn't, it's just that Japanese won't get in your face as easily as people of other nationalities. Non smoking Japanese get just as pissed at smokers as anyone else.
The concept of 'wa' and avoiding confrontation still hold true for the most part, so smokers and their filthy little addiction are tolerated, like old men urinating where they please in public.

Quote:

14-17 in 100,000. Then I found that smoking supposedly increases this risk by 10-15 times. So by that worst case scenario is that among smokers the rate goes up to about 255 in 100,000. Still a pretty small percentage.
Stats was never a strong point of mine so maybe I'm missing something.

I believe your last statement there is on the money - you are missing something. Your odds of 14-17 in 100,000 increasing by 10-15 times is not multiplying the first number by 15 but dividing the second number by 15, which actually brings you down to about 14-17 in 7000. 1 in 400
Those odds are getting a lot closer to home.

Sure you might dodge the lung cancer bullet but how about all the other bullets in the smoking arsenal...good luck dodging all them.

Gum disease and bad breath
Coughs and shortness of breath
increased susceptibility to Colds and flu
Mouth ulcers
High blood pressure
Asthma attacks
Stroke
Reduced vision - macular degeneration ( just ask my nana about that one)
Mouth and throat cancer - my aunties father-in-law (other side of the family) he spoke with a robotic voice box thing.
Heart disease
Emphysema and bronchitis
Stomach ulcers - (my granddad found out about this one - made him quit pretty bloody fast)
Bladder cancer
Infertility - impotence and produce less sperm.
Peripheral vascular disease, which can lead to gangrene and amputation of limbs.

[nzlegend 1]

 

[foreversnow 5]

Okay I am going to jump on the band wagon of anti smokers (probably be booed off the forums).

 

There are a few things with smoking I DON'T GET -

 

In the work place it is considered okay to slip outside 3-4 times a day for a cigarette - I would not be allowed to slip out and have a glass of wine or make personal phone calls to the equivalent. Do they think they are intitled to be payed for having a Cigarette.

 

Dole Bludgers (sorry to offend) always manage to afford their Cigarettes but can't afford to put shoes on their children or feed them decent food (am an expert on this subject considering the area I work in). The first thing to go when money is tight is my luxury's (wine).

 

If smoking did not interfer with my personal space it would not worry me but when you are near a smoker my eyes water, I start sneezing and in general I feel very uncomfortable, not to mention if you are trapped in a smokey room your clothes, skin and hair STINK.

 

I like the little glass smoking boxes they have at the airport they totally cracked me up.

[thursday 1]

plenty more non-smokers on SJ than smokers. It's not evenly matched like skiers and boarders.

[bobby12 0]

Smoking has been socially unacceptable in most countries for a long time now. But it only just went illegal to smoke in public places in the UK a year or so ago. I can imagine the plan is to ban them altogether or hope the fag companies go bust. I wonder how long it will be before they ban them altogether, maybe another 10 years in UK?

[minus 1]

Fact is though, whether you like it or not, in Japan still it is much more accepted and tolerated. People might not like it, but there will always have been people who did not like it. They are not suddenly not liking it more because of the movement to restrict smoking.

[thursday 1]

Christmas present idea:

[2pints-mate 0]

UK. Today:

 

The open display of tobacco in shops and supermarkets will be banned in an attempt to reduce smoking among children and adults, the health secretary, Alan Johnson, said today.

 

He acknowledged concerns that the ban would hit small businesses and said it would begin with the big supermarkets, who would be required to sell cigarettes under the counter.

 

Johnson said the primary aim was to reduce smoking among 11-15-year-olds in England and Wales, an estimated 200,000 of whom were regular smokers in 2007.

[thursday 1]

Complete ban on smoking in restaurants here in 2007. The bars were shit scared of losing customers so they lobbied and the gov caved in and gave them a 2 year moratorium. 2009 will see a complete ban in bars and pubs too. Which means the entrances to said establishments will have a solid smoke screen and walls of walking dead.