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Originally Posted By: ShinyDiscoBall
I bet loads of people come for a ski + other Japan trip.

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so why do we have people who moan about a resort being westernised or being over run by Aussies?


Cuz it would feel more like Japan if there were, er, Japanese on the slopes. Some of that exoticness ( that you so love Rag-Doll wink ) gets diluted away. Just a guess.


Shiny have you even been to Niseko? There's plenty of Japanese on the slopes and they far outnumber the westerners.
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Originally Posted By: Go Native
I agree with RD on this. You never see people complaining about lack of culture from any other ski areas around the world. At least I haven't.


Yeah, but other ski resorts - at least the ones I've skied in - are in western countries, and I really don't expect Western Europe to be much different from America/Canada or Australia, except for regional cuisine/wine/cheeses, and language of course. I just expect Japanese ski areas to have a perceptibly different vibe, and I'd expect the same in China, Korea, or any other non-western country. I suppose I shouldn't.
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Originally Posted By: Creek Boy
I think Aussie skiers/boarders, as well as the up-and-coming affluent Chinese, just suck at winter sports to be buying a place at such a flat mountain. Why anybody would choose Niseko over any of the Honshu places is just beyond me sj biggrin


possible cos that is the most famous and has the most to offer international peroperty investors in Japan?

Given enough exposure and take up in a sport is the way for a country to be sucessful at it. 2006 Winter Olympics Freestyle Aerials, China wins Men's Gold, Women's Silver. Up can coming, yes.
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slap

Snow resorts are snow resorts...some have better service and infrastructure than others, but why you would expect the SKI resort to be different to a western resort is beyond me.

 

The signs are in Japanese, although they kindly also provide english translation for most of them for we visitors (at least in Niseko).

 

There is sashimi, ramen noodles, king crab, sapporo beer, sake and pocari sweat available (to name a few) - these things are not on sale at resorts in other countries.

 

The two languages most spoken on the mountain were Japanese and English - English is spoken in most resorts - but I still believe there was more than 50% Japanese spoken. In fact there were numerous times of communication fun and fivolity where people ONLY spoke Japanese or VERY VERY basic English.

 

The toilets were different, the recycling system was interesting and a challenge for someone who does not read Japanese - trying to search for the correct symbol on the packaging.

 

No...there were no geisha's wondering the streets and I never got ambushed by a Samurai - but come on.....this is not 1824 - it is 2008!!!

lol

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Originally Posted By: thursday
Originally Posted By: Creek Boy
I think Aussie skiers/boarders, as well as the up-and-coming affluent Chinese, just suck at winter sports to be buying a place at such a flat mountain. Why anybody would choose Niseko over any of the Honshu places is just beyond me sj biggrin


possible cos that is the most famous and has the most to offer international peroperty investors in Japan?

Given enough exposure and take up in a sport is the way for a country to be sucessful at it. 2006 Winter Olympics Freestyle Aerials, China wins Men's Gold, Women's Silver. Up can coming, yes.


really? What does Niseko/Kutchan/Makkari/etc have that is so Internationally known that brings in property investors? Surely its not the milk, nor the potatoes up there, right? When there are more attrctions around mainland Honshu.
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Good on ya Mr Wiggles. We will be there in a few weeks and we are looking forward to yodelling out to the goats with our cut lunch of cheese and fresh bread, rollabout

 

Really though - we will be happy with some cheese fondue and some good snow, and maybe a swiss watch to take home with us. Same as we were happy with a good Ramen, few Sapporo beers, good snow and some bento boxes to take home from Japan. Our needs are simple.

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Originally Posted By: Mamabear
Snow resorts are snow resorts...some have better service and infrastructure than others, but why you would expect the SKI resort to be different to a western resort is beyond me.


Well for one, I thought Nozawa Onsen was very different to any resort town I'd ever stayed at before, and I thought Niseko was just like Whistler. Sure, I don't expect the lift system to be exotic or culturally unique, any more than the highways or airports. But I think you should distinguish the towns which have grown around the ski resort, from towns that were there before, which just happen to exist next to a mountain that is skiable. You can feel the difference between them, if you let yourself. Remember, skiing, even in Western culture is a relatively recent phenomenon, and there are many places in the world that have existed far longer than people have been lifted up the slopes.

I'll concede that Niseko isn't one of them, and who should really cares how much development goes on there, and how many foreign tourists it attracts? Except the locals who rely on it for income, of course.
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Originally Posted By: Creek Boy
Originally Posted By: thursday
Originally Posted By: Creek Boy
I think Aussie skiers/boarders, as well as the up-and-coming affluent Chinese, just suck at winter sports to be buying a place at such a flat mountain. Why anybody would choose Niseko over any of the Honshu places is just beyond me sj biggrin


possible cos that is the most famous and has the most to offer international peroperty investors in Japan?

Given enough exposure and take up in a sport is the way for a country to be sucessful at it. 2006 Winter Olympics Freestyle Aerials, China wins Men's Gold, Women's Silver. Up can coming, yes.


really? What does Niseko/Kutchan/Makkari/etc have that is so Internationally known that brings in property investors? Surely its not the milk, nor the potatoes up there, right? When there are more attrctions around mainland Honshu.


are you kidding?

This from a newsletter I just got. It's all true wink
Quote:
The majority of property in the last 3 years has been bought by Australians and with the rise of the yen the value of their investment has increased substantially. Both the Commonwealth Bank and NAB are offering loans of up to 80% of the property value at interest rates of 2.8% has resulted in most property owners being in a very strong position. Average returns in Niseko are around 4% so most apartments and houses will be cash flow positive from day one. Singapore and Malaysian developers and investors are now moving into the market which has further supported property values. Niseko is now established as the skiing capital of Asia, and arguably the Powder Capital of the World. This, more than anything, will ensure that Niseko remains strong for years to come.
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Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles
If I were to take my family skiing in Europe, I'd go to Zermatt, because it looks really nice and all "Swiss".

That's just me though.


If by "all "Swiss"" you mean the train gets you to the terminal exactly on time, then you're dead right.
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Originally Posted By: keba
Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles
If I were to take my family skiing in Europe, I'd go to Zermatt, because it looks really nice and all "Swiss".

That's just me though.


If by "all "Swiss"" you mean the train gets you to the terminal exactly on time, then you're dead right.


I was thinking about the architecture having only seen photos of the place. That and the fact that its not overrun with cars, because they are banned. The buildings seem to have similar designs and proportions, and have been built with a clear sympathy for local traditions. Unlike Japanese towns, it is possible to take photos of the mountains from town without powerlines, garish signage, rubbish buildings and other unregulated clutter spoiling the view. Of course, the photos of Zermatt may be deceiving and the place may be disappointing once we got there.

The basic point is that I'd like to go somewhere I think is nice in a cultural way even on a ski holiday. In the perfect world, I'd have the time, money, and energy for lots of holidays for different purposes, but the reality is that I don't.

Though not centralized and walkable like Nozawa, there are some very old parts of Hakuba that are worth seeing. However, they are around the edges so most visitors, esp. non-Japanese ones, completely miss them.
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And you won't be disappointed by Zermatt, unless you are going there to buy a watch - they're way too pricey - or if you are a boarder, as there are a lot of traverses. Just try and ignore the McDonalds on the main street...

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I think it is more the novelty factor Thursday... we wont be going out of our way for a bargain, or getting all emo if we don't buy a watch...LOL. We are visiting 5 other major cities besides our two weeks in Zermatt, so plenty of opportunity to shop. Zermatt is about snow, jeigerbombs, and good old family laughs (mostly at Mum when she stacks it).

 

 

I apologise for the hijack but I will get back on topic now in a nice little segue... Last Jan we travelled with 2 other families to Niseko. We decided to travel somewhere new before the financial crisis, family #2 pulled out a few months ago and are staying home, and family #3 waved goodbye to thier deposit today and are looking to make a quick 1 weeker to Zermatt to join us seeing as they will be in the UK visiting family at Christmas anyway.

 

So out of 3 repeat visiting families there are none coming Jan 09 for thier various reasons - but a big impact on 2/3 has been the exchange rate.

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Originally Posted By: thursday
not talking about novlety value. I mean Rolex I got from someone who only found it in Geneva. I had been looking for it here for a few months

omg
Ahhhhhhhh.....
Shhh...don't tell Papabear - he has been after a Rolex for a while and I reckon the boat is a big enough splurge for this year! confused
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