Is the Haka dead? (rugby fans)

[rach 1]

What was the response Mantas?

[Mantas 3]

The Aussies formed a line and advanced upon the dancing Kiwis. They were almost nose to nose by the end of it.

[foreversnow 5]

Hey Mantas - Yeah we watched the game as well.

 

I was a little disappointed at the Aussies advancing at the New Zealanders while they did the Haka. I feel let them do it, it gee's everyone up and the crowd love it. It's not like they have only just started doing it, It is a tradition (apparently) and they do it before every game whether it be league or union and have been for years.

[scouser 4]

All sounds a bit playground posturing doesn't it?

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: snowhunter

Hey Mantas - Yeah we watched the game as well.

I was a little disappointed at the Aussies advancing at the New Zealanders while they did the Haka. I feel let them do it, it gee's everyone up and the crowd love it. It's not like they have only just started doing it, It is a tradition (apparently) and they do it before every game whether it be league or union and have been for years.

Yeah but the fact that every nation is now trying to figure out a way to 'deal' with the Haka tells you that they are not comfortable with it and probably could do without it. Your right in saying they have been doing it for ages. I think the players are sick of it. It's not like they are scared of these performances. These players have done battle with each other many times, they now exactly what they are in for, the Haka is unlikely to intimidate them.

The crowd does seem to love it though. (or is that just the vocal Kiwi component?)

[BagOfCrisps 24]

The other team should drop their kecks and do a moonie.

[nzlegend 1]

in the real rugby that was on at the weekend, The Welsh stared down the All Blacks haka and then refused to move afterwards, they all just stood there staring, so the AB's didnt move either - a stare down, it was awesome. The ref had to plead with them to get the game started!

 

 

p.s I really dig the Welsh anthem and the passion that they sing it with - players and crowd.

[ssar 0]

Originally Posted By: SG

in the real rugby that was on at the weekend, The Welsh stared down the All Blacks haka and then refused to move afterwards, they all just stood there staring, so the AB's didnt move either - a stare down, it was awesome. The ref had to plead with them to get the game started!

Wow that's awesome!

[Mantas 3]

There's 3mins 35sec, of I my life I won't get back.

[gurningbob 0]

Some of those guys should enter gurning competitions.

[thursday 1]

there you go. true spectacle even before the action begins. Great stuff

[Roger's head 0]

Makes me laught that

[Davo 1]

It's all getting kind of silly. I can understand why other teams are a bit fed up with the hype of the haka performance. This stems from a combo of the throat slitting gesture (sure I know it isn't actually a representation ofthroat slitting but it certainly looks like it) and overpromotion of the haka in sport.

 

I enjoy the haka and it makes me proud to be a NZer, so I hope it can go back to what it was. The opposition should just face the challenge, all staunch like and then proceed to beat the All Blacks in reply. If they can of course...now that (the valiant attempt only to be crushed in the end) is what I want to see

 

 

[grungy-gonads 54]

The whole thing is ridiculous.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Davo

I The opposition should just face the challenge, all staunch like and then proceed to beat the All Blacks in reply.

Why?

Perhaps other teams don't see it as a challenge, just a waste of time.
I don't think it's rediculous, just not relevent to a game of international rugby.

[Davo 1]

Well Mantas, I suppose I just want to see things go back to how they were. I like watching test matches and am used to things like that. As to relevance, the haka has been a fixture of interntional matches for a long time, so there is a lot of historical precedence to keep it so.

 

I wish they'd just get on with the game as well. I think the blame for the current situation is with NZ. Overhyping things has backfired and that is too bad. Maybe they could give the ABs a choice of the haka or the national anthem.

[Curt 1]

Just noticed this, interesting

 

Maori win battle to control All Blacks' haka ritual

 

The eye-rolling, tongue-flicking haka war dance made famous by the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team was officially handed back to a Maori tribe yesterday to stop it being ripped off by Hollywood directors and international advertising campaigns.

 

The New Zealand government assigned intellectual property rights in the traditional Maori haka, the Ka Mate, to Ngati Toa, a North Island tribal group.

 

The new agreement is largely symbolic, but it is considered immensely significant by Maori leaders. "Ngati Toa's primary objective is to prevent the misappropriation and culturally inappropriate use of the Ka Mate haka," the official settlement letter read.

 

The tribe has been battling for a decade to stop commercial exploitation of the haka, saying its use in film and television has been culturally insensitive and has undermined its traditional significance.

 

Among uses it objected to was a 2006 television advertisement by the car maker Fiat in which Italian women performed a slapdash rendition of the haka, which is traditionally performed only by men.

 

There was outrage the following year when New Zealand's bakery of the year awards featured a mock performance by gingerbread men. Ngati Toa elders were also incensed when the haka was performed in the Hollywood movie Forever Strong, about a high school rugby team in the US.

 

The tribe has tried to trademark the Ka Mate several times over the past decade to limit commercial abuse but has failed, largely because of concerns it might charge the All Blacks for performing it.

 

John Key, New Zealand's prime minister, said the issue was cultural redress and not money. If a company wanted to use the haka for commercial reasons there should be a recognition of the tribe's cultural interests. How this would be handled in the final treaty settlement was still a matter of discussion, he told the New Zealand Herald.

 

He said he did not believe the All Blacks would be considered as commercially exploiting the haka.

 

"They are our national sports team and they have had the rendition of Ka Mate for a long time ... There will neither be any restrictions on them in terms of their use or rendition of Ka Mate, nor any charge for doing so," he added.

 

The agreement was a special provision in a $NZ121m (£44m) compensation package awarded to eight tribes over land and human rights abuses dating back 160 years.

[Mantas 3]

That's interesting alright.

Not only does the Haka not represent all Kiwis'. It doesn't even represent all Moaris', just a few tribes from the north Island.

I'm glad they got some sort of formal recognition for it and they gave their blessing to the AB's. Doesn't change my view though.

 

That's just an internal matter for New zealanders.

[Go Native 70]

I love the Haka and think it's one of the greatest spectacles in sport. Mantas you're claim it's just entertainment and has nothing to do with the sport is ridiculous. All sport is just a form of entertainment! (for those of us watching at any rate). The Haka heightens that entertainment and the anticipation to a much higher level. Sport has always been far more than just the actual competition itself.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

I Mantas you're claim it's just entertainment and has nothing to do with the sport is ridiculous.

So my opinion is ridiculous and yours is spot GN? Is that how you see it.

Let see.
We have a WAR DANCE which is native to a few small Maori tribes on the North Island of New Zealand being performed before a game that's roots are deeply embedded in ENGLISH sporting culture. This DANCE is performed before every international match and the opponents MUST stand there and respect it whether they want to or not, while the crowd- and more importantly the players- wait for the game to start.

I'm not anti Haka, I'd just rather watch this ENTERTAINMENT at half time.

[Go Native 70]

The whole game is just entertainment and the Haka just makes it all that much better. It's historical origins don't really have much bearing on their current day significance. Have you actually ever been to a game and waited in anticipation for the Haka? The crowd is hardly waiting twiddling their thumbs, they just love it and it gets the whole stadium going. Awesome stuff. May it live forever!

[Rag-Doll 0]

Not strictly a war dance apparently, not the Ka Mate anyway. Not that this fact adds anything to the discussion! But the All Blacks getting sniffy because poeple aren't showing the right 'cultural respect' is a bit girlish.

 

From wiki Although the use of a haka by the All Blacks has made one type of haka familiar, it has led to misconceptions. Haka[2] are not exclusively war dances, nor are they only performed by men. Some are performed by women, others by mixed groups, and some simple haka are performed by children. Haka are performed for various reasons: for amusement, as a hearty welcome to distinguished guests, or to acknowledge great achievements or occasions (McLean 1996:46-47). War haka, which had their own term, 'peruperu', were originally performed by warriors before a battle, proclaiming their strength and prowess in order to intimidate the opposition. Today, haka constitute an integral part of formal or official welcome ceremonies for distinguished visitors or foreign dignitaries, serving to impart a sense of the importance of the occasion.

 

Various actions are employed in the course of a performance, including facial contortions such as showing the whites of the eyes and the poking out of the tongue, and a wide variety of vigorous body actions such as slapping the hands against the body and stamping of the feet. As well as chanted words, a variety of cries and grunts are used. Haka may be understood as a kind of symphony in which the different parts of the body represent many instruments. The hands, arms, legs, feet, voice, eyes, tongue and the body as a whole combine to express courage, annoyance, joy or other feelings relevant to the purpose of the occasion.

 

 

[edit] Types

 

Another 19th century depiction of a hakaThe various types of haka include whakatu waewae, tutu ngarahu and peruperu. The peruperu is characterised by leaps during which the legs are pressed under the body. In former times, the peruperu was performed before a battle in order to invoke the god of war and to discourage and frighten the enemy. It involved fierce facial expressions and grimaces, poking out of the tongue, eye bulging, grunts and cries, and the waving of weapons. If the haka was not performed in total unison, this was regarded as a bad omen for the battle. Often, warriors went naked into battle, apart from a plaited flax belt around the waist. The aim of the warriors was to kill all the members of the enemy war party, so that no survivors would remain to undertake revenge.

 

The tutu ngarahu also involves jumping, but from side to side, while in the whakatu waewae no jumping occurs. Another kind of haka performed without weapons is the ngeri, the purpose of which was to motivate the warriors psychologically. The movements are very free, and each performer is expected to be expressive of their feelings. Manawa wera haka were generally associated with funerals or other occasions involving death. Like the ngeri they were performed without weapons, and there was little or no choreographed movement.

 

The most well-known haka is "Ka Mate", attributed to Te Rauparaha, war leader of the NgÄti Toa tribe. The Ka Mate haka is classified as a "Haka Taparahi" - a ceremonial haka. The "Ka Mate" haka is about the cunning ruse Te Rauparaha used to outwit his enemies, and may be interpreted as 'a celebration of the triumph of life over death' (PÅmare 2006).