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I see Iran is flexing it's muscles the last few days with missiles that could get to Israel and 'designed to show its capability to deliver a "crushing response" if attacked by the US or Israel'.

 

Tell me, is Israel ever going to attack Iran??

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Israel was put into the wrong place by the UN. Israel, in the minds of these religious followers shoud've been put in Germany.

 

Palestine was just doing fine. Who gave the UN the power to take away their country?

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I reckon the blame lies with Iran. They are the ones who deny Israel's right to exist (not the other way around), they are the ones who fund and train groups who attack Israel (Hamas, Hezbollah) and they know full well Israel's likely response if threatened (Osirak). In those circumstances it doesn't seem very responsible for Iran to wind up the rhetoric. Any clown who waves a red flag at a bull deserves whatever they get. For all their faults, Israel hasn't demonstrated the same degree of antagonism or hostility towards Iran that Iran displays towards Israel. It lies with Iran the power to defuse the situation.

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From the news this morning it seems that Iran's Ahmadinejad is subject to the same bellicose stupidity that brought Saddam undone: talking tough to a bunch of trigger happy Israelis and over stating your ability to do them harm isn't going to lead to a happy outcome.

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Well, he sees the DPRK's Kim Jong Il doing the same and not getting bombed back to the stone age, so he probably figures he can parrot Kim and face similar reactions. It's a lot of show for the people inside the border.

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Agreed, but Kim doesn't have a near neighbour [with military cajones] like the Isrealis who tend to be a bit sensitive about these things. Photoshopping the missle launch is a bit comical though, and may do more to lower the tension than anything else.

 

What is it about these guys and their need to look tough? Remember a fair while ago now there was a video released of some terrorist leader firing a machine gun - all tough guy and rambo like. The problem was that what the terrorists released was only part of the video, what they didn't show and which later came to light was footage of one of hard man's minders behaving like a complete novice and burning himself when he tried to pick up the machine gun by the barrel and the hard man himself wearing US running shoes - so much for the fearless resistance against Western infidels. Dangerous clowns, the lot of them.

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Originally Posted By: thursday.
Israel was put into the wrong place by the UN. Israel, in the minds of these religious followers shoud've been put in Germany.

Palestine was just doing fine. Who gave the UN the power to take away their country?


Yeah i agree Thurs. You'd think that after what happened to the Jews in Europe, that Israel would've been a bit more mindful when dealing with their disgruntled neighbours. But no, they anatagonise as much as anyone else. There really is no reason that Israelis and Palestinians couldn't live together other than bullshit religious fanaticism. Do the world a favour and scrap religion first and let everyone live in peace
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Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
...the hard man himself wearing US running shoes - so much for the fearless resistance against Western infidels. Dangerous clowns, the lot of them.


Like Bin Laden and his everpresent camouflage US Army M-65 field jacket?
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Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
I reckon the blame lies with Iran. They are the ones who deny Israel's right to exist (not the other way around)

I am not so sure about that. I think since the islamic revolution the US and Israel are trying to neutralise or completely trying to bring the country down, probably using words like mentioned above behind closed doors.

Just because 1 guy says something adressing a crowd of supporters and that is used by the US and Israel as reverse propaganda and easily picked up by Fox news and CNN and then the rest of the world. Thats why Iran is to blame?
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It looked like we were going to get a breather on the oil price going up, but thanks to all this sabre rattling, that's not going to happen. Another 8-10 yen on gas from next month? And on everything else as the price filters through.

 

Iran is between Israel and Pakistan, both with nuclear weapons. They'd have to be mad to not want them.

 

bushbombs512.jpg

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Originally Posted By: Sanno
Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
I reckon the blame lies with Iran. They are the ones who deny Israel's right to exist (not the other way around)

I am not so sure about that. I think since the islamic revolution the US and Israel are trying to neutralise or completely trying to bring the country down, probably using words like mentioned above behind closed doors.

Just because 1 guy says something adressing a crowd of supporters and that is used by the US and Israel as reverse propaganda and easily picked up by Fox news and CNN and then the rest of the world. Thats why Iran is to blame?


That one guy happens to be the president of the country. As with any national leader, his public statements amount to national policy. I agree, the US and Israel are definitely hostile towards Iran - why is that do you reckon? It isn't because it is an Islamic nation. It is because Iran trains and funds groups that conduct rocket attacks and suicide attacks against Israel. Iran is already conducting a de facto war against Israel. Israel has fought off several attempts by Arab nations to destroy it, (rightly or wrongly) is subject to a fairly continuous stream of attacks by groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah. It is a country that is still haunted by the Jewish holocaust and what that almost meant in terms of the survival of the Jewish nation and culture. Right or wrongly, Israel responds very aggressively when it is threatened. That is not a judgemental statement, I think that is a fact and there are several instances where this has been manifest. It might have been Alexander Downer the other day said that Israel has the strategic depth of a beach suburb. I think that is right, nuclear weapons in the hands of its enemies pose a unique threat to Israel as it simply has no scope for a retaliatory strike. The MAD balance of the Cold War can't work in this instance.

Iran is an enemy of Israel. It is a major supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah and its leaders have made clear a desire to see an end to Israel. Israel's existence didn't come at any cost to Iran so the aggression displayed by Iran is based on principal rather than any tangible grievance. However one prefers to interpret Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's statements, they are still very provocative and must have been made in the knowledge that they will be interpreted as such by Israel and the US. It doesn't matter what statements are made in private, it is the public ones that are important because even when made in a domestic setting they will be disseminated around the world and their existence will demand a response. Knowing that Israel is on a hair trigger and that Israel has attacked in the past when provoked, I think it is criminally irresponsible to escalate the situation by seeking to develop nuclear weapons and claim to have the means of delivering them. Confronted with the possibility of an openly hostile nuclear armed Iran, Israel really will have no alternative but to attack. How can it not?

The response that well, Israel has nukes doesn't really cut it. Israel doesn't display the kind of hostility towards Iran that it receives. It doesn't support groups determined to destroy the country and ultimately, hasn't attacked Iran, despite the means to do so for decades. Iran doesn't need nuclear weapons to defend itself and Israel can't afford to have a nuclear armed Iran. The country pushing to change the status quo is Iran and therefore it is Iran that has the option to defuse the situation.

Maybe this is all a grand strategy by Iran to obtain concessions, who knows?
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Sorry been away for a few since I posted.

 

I pretty much agree with what you have written in the above Rag-Doll. Cheers! smile

 

We'll see what changes in situations like this when Prez McCain Obama gets going.

 

That New York mag cover yesterday - see that on the news?

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Originally Posted By: thursday.
the New Yorker magazine cover is typical of what he's gonna get.

His name will be associated with Osama conciously or otherwise and there you have it.


Hard to see him getting up really. I reckon a lot of people go with their gut instinct and it won't take much for the GOP to create a shadow of a doubt and that will sink him.
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Originally Posted By: Mantas
I heard the other day that the US has reached 'overage'. Just as the Roman Empire did at it's peak.
It's all down hill from here boys.



The "new Rome" comparisons are fun, but I don't know. The US is as much about the ideals that it represents and the ambition to attain those rather than the reality. Americans believe their own hype. Whether or not the reality matches this belief or even if the belief is well founded, may be largely irrelevant. So long as people think that it does or think that it is capable of doing so, it will continue. The US still overwhelms the rest of the world in terms of wealth and power and will do so for quite some time. Whether you're talking material wealth or life style or individual freedoms, it still represents the ideal for the vast majority of humanity. The US will be a long time declining and even then, there will be echoes of what it was and what it represented for a long time after that. Maybe in some sense it is the new Rome, but if so it is a better version that is far more resilient than the original.
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