How really do the Aussie ski tourists really act in Japan???

[journey_man 0]

I grew up on a farm in New Zealand and to control fly strike we used a combination of crutching (shearing the wool from around the sheep's bum, keeping the area dry and providing less wool for shit to stick on) and dipping. The crutching was the main form of control with the dipping being mainly to control other pests. It seemed to work ok. I think we did the crutching and dipping at the same time, so only one muster was needed.

[soubriquet 0]

So we`re all in agreement then, kissy kissy.

 

Behind my criticism, there`s a point that is universal, and I`m not aiming this at anyone specific. I`ll use the whaling issue as an illustration, but I`m not pointing the finger.

 

Bottom line is a highly visible one-issue group making a lot of noise. They claim the environmental moral high-ground and the cloak of scientific respectability for what is essentially reactionary agenda. The press are happy to report "news" without any serious analysis. Critics are dismissed as stooges. Most importantly, the politicians are happy to stand silently on the sidelines, happy for attention to be deflected from their own failures.

[journey_man 0]

I was in Asahikawa when this all blew up. It certainly caused quite a stir around town. The interesting thing was that the reports appeared in the foreign press first and later in the Japanese press. I wondered if the management at Kamui took this incident as good way to get some free publicity...

[Mantas 3]

I think it was most likely an Australian. Australia has been the most vocal by far about the whaling issue. All this anti-whaling stuff went up a gear when they said they would start to hunt Humpbacks.

Apart from the emotive issue of killing Humpbacks, there's also an economic issue. Whale watching is a huge industry down here (probably worth more than the whole Japanese whaling industry). My town practically survives on it over winter, as do a lot of others strung around the coast of Australia.

None of this excuses some MORON scribbling inside gondolas at Kamui though.

[soubriquet 0]

I agree Mantas, I think whaling is stupid and unneccessary. As a matter interest, do you get many Japanese come to watch the whales?

[JA2340 16]

soubs,

I agree that whaling is unnecessary. I wonder how many Japanese actually eat whale meat? Any statistics on consumption?

 

Mama,

The animal on the Oz coat of arms is the kangaroo. From my perspective, in a regional area where the wild roos do untold damage to crops and feed, the commercialisation of them will do two things ...

One, it will make them a resource to be husbanded and harvested, rather than just a bl00dy nuisance to be shot and left to rot.

Two, it will restrict the amount of damage they do (and, incidentally, make the damage less burdensome to the cockies) to wheat and corn crops.

 

The fact that they are on the coat of arms is a total irrelevance, IMHO.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I am not objecting JA.

Kangaroo, emu, croc - go for it. As long as it is sustainable.

[Mantas 3]

 Originally Posted By: soubriquet

I agree Mantas, I think whaling is stupid and unneccessary. As a matter interest, do you get many Japanese come to watch the whales?

You sure do. Coach loads of them. The first thing that greets you as you board a whale watching vessel is a petition to stop whale hunting. We get loads of Japanese tourists here, I gave 3 of them a lift off the beach last week.
Interestingly enough, when I flew out for Japan this year, we saw some young Japanese sporting tee shirts that said in large letters.
STOP WHALE HUNTING.

[soubriquet 0]

Very few people here eat it, and it`s discounted in the shops. I think that`s why they put it in school meals. The ace lady tells me there`s a huge frozen stockpile of unsold meat somewhere. The whaling is political I believe, to keep some fishing communities happy. I`d say the overwhelming majority of Japanese don`t give a rats.

[2pints-mate 0]

Don't give a rats meaning they don't care if it happens either...?

[journey_man 0]

My impression from the few Japanese that I spoke to about it was that no one eats it any more and they feel totally uninvolved. I'm told that once it was cheap food and now it isn't, so why bother.

 

So the huge stockpile thing makes sense to me, someone, somewhere, hasn't taken the hint.

[Mantas 3]

 Originally Posted By: 2pints,mate

Don't give a rats meaning they don't care if it happens either...?

Yep. Most (almost all) Japanese would only ever have seen whales on TV or in books. There's not too many 16m long, 80 000 lb humpbacks passing through Shinjuku station these days, so it's no suprise that they feel indifferent to whaling.
Australians on the other hand are a lot more connected with Humpback whales, most Australians would have seen at least 1 or 2 in their lifetime, some (like me) hundreds of times. When an adult male, 3 times longer than your boat breaches within meters of you, it's one of natures greatest spectacles.

Whales inside Sydney Harbour

[Mantas 3]

A Humpback in full breach. Taken off the coast from my house.

 

 

 

[thursday 1]

nice pics Mantas

[thursday 1]

 Originally Posted By: Mantas

Yep. Most (almost all) Japanese would only ever have seen whales on TV or in books. There's not too many 16m long, 80 000 lb humpbacks passing through Shinjuku station these days,

But they pass through Tainan before exploding



this one is a sperm whale disguised as a humpback

[Mantas 3]

Photo didn't come through thurs. Thats polly a good thing. I've seen it before.

[journey_man 0]

 

Your piccy broke! This one?

 

[soubriquet 0]

Whale meat again,

don`t know where, don`t know when....

[big-will 7]

I remember that pic from a while back, yuck.

 

Just look at the size of that magnificent creature!

[Davo 1]

I think most Japanese are simply unaware of any wider perspective surrounding the whaling issue and why so many people are against it. It's usually seen as Japan bashing and I'm sure that Japan bashing is a part of it for some critics. Most people never eat the stuff anyway but Japan can't give it up because it's part of the 'culture', or at least the 'culture' presented by the polemicists. Some people here are against it too but for most it's a non-issue.

 

What is really so wrong with whaling if it's sustainable and the particular species are not endangered? I don't really know and can only assume I'm against whaling for cultural/emotional reasons, after all, growing up in NZ I was basically indoctrinated with the opposite polemic that whaling is morally repugnent and akin to murdering babies. However, as for those cows and sheep (which are incidentally only shagged by Aussie tourists), well it's "Yum! Om nom nom nom nom".

 

Whaling is just unnecessary and damaging for Japan's international reputation, but those that support it aren't concerned about that. I'm against it but think that the hyperbolic approach of some in the anti whaling camp is pointless. And tagging a ski lift like that is just stupid.

 

To illustrate the perception gap between Japan and the anti whaling world here's a personal story. One day I came home and and upon rummaging around in the fridge found some tastey looking crumbed fried meat on a stick. I had only just started Om nomming it when I realised I couldn't work out if it was oily beef or something else.

 

Asked the wife and she casually replied that it was whale. I was, of course, outraged and yelled at her "WTF do you think you're doing buying this and letting me eat it without telling me?" Well she's a pretty stroppy girl and a big argument ensued. After we cooled down we could properly expalain and analyse where we were coming from. She really had no idea why it was such a big deal until I explained things.

 

It got me thinking and I can conclude that even though I would never voluntarilly eat even sustainably unendangered whale meat, the only reason is cultural/emotional conditioning. In much the same way I wouldn't want to eat horse but cows are just fine.

[Mantas 3]

I pretty much agree with all that Davo. The emotional logic to anti-whaling just doesn't stand up. Our minister for the environment, Mr Peter Garet, (former front man for Midnight oil), was quoted as saying something like, "It's an outrage that Japan is hunting and killing these MAJESTIC and REGAL animals. I have trouble with these two words. Who are we to decide which animals are regal and majestic, and why should we assume that our idea of what's regal and majestic would automatically transfer to all other people on the planet.

 

>What is really so wrong with whaling if it's sustainable and the particular species are not endangered? <

 

Nothing. But we are talking about the Japanese here. They have the worst track record of any nation in the world when it comes to any form of fish stock havesting.

That's well documented.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Interesting reading guys!

I have to agree that I understand the fuss when we are talking endangered and unsustainable - but I am much less concerned if things are sustainable and ecologically sound. Now - I am also aware that Aussie and other nationalities are doing things wrong too in thier own backyards. I thought main objection was when the harvest was done in Aussie waters where the things are protected - but I could be wrong.

 

I am not sure I would be keen on chowing down on wilbur the whale, but I have to admit I would probably give it a go - all other things being equal. I sure chomp my way through some interesting things when we are in Japan (AND elsewhere!). I'm not one of those Aussies who lobs in a foreign land armed with thier own personal supply of vegemite and seaks out the closest hamburger joint - whats the point in that.

 

Mantas, while I hear and understand your concern about the track record of the Japanese with regards to fishing....I am not sure that our 'attack them with a big stick until they submit to our will' will be as effective as fair and open discussion and negotiation. Especially when there are things our environmental lobbyists could turn thier attention to in our OWN backyard.

[Davo 1]

Yes Mantas, the Japanese fishing industry is hardly a steward of sustainability but it's not alone there. As far as I remember it was illegal fishing by Spanish trawlers that helped to collapse cod stocks off the coast of Canada.

 

Attacking the 'researchers' just makes them more defiant and increases the hot air of politicians who support them. Unfortunately Mamabear (as is usual with head up the *ss absolutist positioning) there seems to be little prospect of fair and open discusssion and negotiation.

 

I don't know much about Peter Garrett, but believe the guy is pretty sincere and has his heart in the right place. The problem is that his worship of the whales is blinding him to rational analysis.

 

The idea of this annual harvest being research is farcical. I don't see the need to kill em and count em or whatever their rationale is if they are really researching. How about tagging them electronically and monitoring movement and other techniques to establish the population.

 

It does seem logical that some species have recovered to the level where sustainable fishing could occur. Neither the whaling or absolutely anti whaling camp are helping to make the true situation any clearer. Pigheadedness all around.

[soubriquet 0]

Mantas: Nothing. But we are talking about the Japanese here. They have the worst track record of any nation in the world when it comes to any form of fish stock havesting.

That's well documented.

 

That is wrong. Japanese fish stocks are holding up very well because the industry is very well regulated. The fleets raping blue-fin tuna and poaching toothfish come from other nations. The "well documented" common knowledge is anti-Japanese propaganda dressed as information.

 

mamabear: I thought main objection was when the harvest was done in Aussie waters where the things are protected - but I could be wrong.

 

Some of the whaling is being done in waters of Australian Antarctic territory. They are NOT Australian waters. Australia has NO JURISDICTION in this territory. The bullshitting skipper of Sea Shepherd is doing just that when he bullshits about Japanese whaling being illegal. Both NZ and Oz governments have taken legal advice, and in both cases the answer is Japan's activities are NOT illegal.

 

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23663664-2,00.html

[HelperElfMissy 42]

 Originally Posted By: Davo

Unfortunately Mamabear (as is usual with head up the *ss absolutist positioning) there seems to be little prospect of fair and open discusssion and negotiation.

Sad but true Davo.

I am happy to talk - as one can tell (LOL) - and love to learn new things.
I am always open to a frank and honest discussion that will sway my opinion and open my eyes to new possibilities....so I find it hard to comprehend that our supposedly intellegent 'diplomats' whose job it is to make these kind of negotiations are so incapable and pig headed. It clearly is the case, but doesn't it make you just wanna GROAN!

Soubs - thanks for the clarification. I have paid a modicum of attention to the news, but I am sure the reporting is somewhat biased.