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I was issued a challenge this week - to do something 'green or eco' through my day, over and above the usual bits and pieces - you know, back to actively looking for ways to be more eco friendly... and I thought it dove tailed nicely with the discussions here about our impact on the environment, and the effect on our snow conditions.

 

So here's the question - anyone use solar? Not just solar hot water, I mean the PV cells to generate electricity and have it fed back to the grid.

 

I have made an appt for tomorrow evening to see a company for a quote to install it in my home, and have been surfing the net for current info - I was really into researching PV's about 3 yrs ago - but things have really changed - now it is REALLY accessable, but they don't publicize thier flaws, downsides, foibles...anyone got any warning for me?

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a mate works for a solar company. he's rigged his whole house up and actually generates more power than he uses.

he also uses grey water to reticulate his entire garden and is planning to dig up his front lawn and put some massive rainwater storage tanks in.

anyway, not sure who you're seeing tomorrow but i found some info on company with perth offices here:

http://www.solco.com.au/products/solco_power_systems/grid_connected_power_systems

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Thanks Spook.

Modern is doing it now and advertising - so I have asked them to come out - but I want to be informed before they come out - I hate being told to sign here right now or you wont recieve the bonus...LOL

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All our water comes from the natural recycling system called the "water cycle". Rain falls onto our roof, is captured and stored for our use in tanks. We have NO other source ofmwater for domestic use.

 

The waste water we generate, both grey (from showers and such) and black (from toilets) goes to an aerated waste treatment system (called, predictably, an AWTS) and the reclaimed water is reticulated to the garden (shrubs only, not food plants because of legal restrictions).

 

Looking at a grid connected system for elactrical generation - will be interested to hear your take on the potential.

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JA - I am keen on getting a tank as well ... time to put our money where the rhetoric is huh?! I have found that you guys have a much wider range of tanks available on the eastern side of the desert, than we have over here in the west. All the ones I get excited about - not available in WA! Doh!

 

I will let you all know how the meeting goes, and whether we go ahead.

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Not so much solar power, but I looked at hybrid for my new car. It sounded so good to be able to save on the petrol and all that shit. But it costed a hellova lot more than the conventional petrol only engine. The salesman actually told me to forget about it as the fuel cell, out in 5 years or so, will obsolete the hybrid and I would've wasted my money on old technology.

 

So much for Toyota sales talk.

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Our new place is solar-heated by lots of south-facing glass.

 

PVs are quite common in Japan, partly because they used to be heavily subsidized. A notable percentage of the world's panels are in Japan and Sharp, Kyocera, etc. are world leaders in their production. Japan is not as good as Oz for PVs though, since many regions are too hazy. You don't get the same number of "sun-hours". If you have an intertie, the utilities buy-back rate also leaves a lot to be desired. Its unfortunate, not least because PVs produce peak demand power when owners themselves may be out at work and not need it themselves.

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Yes Mr wiggles, I have been looking at that!

There is currently a proposal to legislate and require local power companies to buy the excess produced power at a premium higher rate than it is currently sold at. Especially as they are currently BUYING it at a marginally cheaper rate than it is being sold at, and yet are able to sell that power as GREEN power at a much higher rate than the standard sell price.

 

Apparently the bench mark they are pushing for is germany's system of buyback at double the sell rate. At the moment it is not!

 

However on a smart power agreement (Western Power) the middle of the week day is bought and sold at high rates, so by not being home and tunring off all the lights when we leave (which we should anyway) we may well get in front and find that we sell if for 4 times the price we are buying it at at night!

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 Originally Posted By: thursday.
Not so much solar power, but I looked at hybrid for my new car. It sounded so good to be able to save on the petrol and all that shit. But it costed a hellova lot more than the conventional petrol only engine. The salesman actually told me to forget about it as the fuel cell, out in 5 years or so, will obsolete the hybrid and I would've wasted my money on old technology.

So much for Toyota sales talk.


The Estima Hybrid's a good car, and has a devout fan base in Japan. It's a bit limited in who it appeals to though. It only comes in an option-loaded version that's expensive and is 4WD. If you compare it to the standard (2WD + unboosted engine) Estima, the mpg gain is only about 25%. This probably strikes many as a waste of time. However, if you compare it to a heavier, option-filled Estima with 4WD, another mileage killer, the gain is going to be 40% or more. For a big car, a 40% improvement is going to save you a lot of money in the long run.

If they could strip out some of the options and get the price down closer to three million yen, they'd sell loads more. The real big one though would be to get hybrids classified as keis in Japan. A Prius has less emissions and gets better mileage than almost every kei car, but is taxed as a regular car. Even conventional cars like the Honda Fit get better mileage than many keis. The whole kei thing is just a historic trade barrier to protect Japanese manufacturers. It makes no sense any more.
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My appointment was cancelled by the company - personal emergency... So I have to wait for them to rebook.

 

Meantime - the whole hybrid car thing - I can see it being a huge hit in large citys with tight parking, congested roads and small distances to travel, as you rarely get up over 60mph, but I struggle seeing them on the Aussie lanscape as a big feature (at least in thier current form), as we travel such vast distances in our cars.

 

I like the idea.

Just not too sure if they are practically suited to much of the Aussie consumers.

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 Originally Posted By: Mamabear

Meantime - the whole hybrid car thing - I can see it being a huge hit in large citys with tight parking, congested roads and small distances to travel, as you rarely get up over 60mph, but I struggle seeing them on the Aussie lanscape as a big feature (at least in thier current form), as we travel such vast distances in our cars.

I like the idea.
Just not too sure if they are practically suited to much of the Aussie consumers.


All Hybrids are not created equal. The Toyota Prius (the Honda Civic Hybrid is almost there - but not quite as it is not as 'clean') is really the only hybrid that is designed for fuel efficiency and reduced emissions. The rest are geared toward high performance and really don't make sense for most people who are looking to reduce their fuel costs and their environmental impact.

The Prius does just fine over 60mph - even at higher speeds (the Prius is capable of well over 100mph) your fuel economy is better than other cars on the road with the added advantage of much cleaner emissions. I have a Prius in Japan (city, rural and highway driving) and my parents have one in Canada (they log more highway miles that I do) and although the driving conditions are very different, we are all very satisfied with the fuel economy, performance and reliability.

Waiting for hydrogen cells makes no sense when viable hybrid options exist for the vast majority of actual driving conditions but it is unfortunate that there are not more hybrid options based on the system used in the Prius. I would also go for a Hybrid Estima without all the extra crap they come with.
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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE:

 

We signed up for an offer of 1500 for 1500 - a smallish 1kw system, but they were doing a bulk purchase and install so the price was brought down to the VERY affordable $1500 for the system (and they would install 1500 of the things...)

 

Well they rang today - our suburb is next in line - HOWEVER - in his infinite wisdom, our illustrious leader KRudd announced in his budget last night that the $8000 rebate for Solar Installation introduced by the Libs was to be MEANS TESTED ... and now, if our combined income is over $150 000 per year we do not qualify, raising the price from $1500 to $9500. Ummmm...no thanks.

 

KRudd - ambassador for the environment, signer of Kyoto, king of the greenies...ummm NOT! The simple reality is that 99% of the people earning a comnbined income of less than $150,000 a year are battling with the mortgage, higher food prices and petrol escalations. They are not likely to splurge on a Solar Power System that even WITH the rebate will take 6 years before you break even.

 

Stupid decision!

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Well, I think for the fun of it, I'd go for it. I'd love to see my lecky bills go from "feck me" to "feck you, pay me".

 

I'd really get into it and install more and more and more so I could just see the money roll in.

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We were keen, but we know this particular system is inferior and not upgradable - but for $1500 we were prepared to go for it. At $9500 - not.

 

The other systems that are of a better quality, upgradable were about $10,000 - $30,000 depenedent on size WITH the rebate - so add $8000 to that now .... that is a LOT of money to lay out when there is the concern of rapid change and innovation in the industry leaving you with an expensive dinosaur on the roof.

 

The $8000 rebate was a big huge plus for the environment, for adding alternate electric supplies to the nation without building more coal stations, and for consumers who were taking the risk of giving it a go. As for earning, our elect companies have not yet got on board with buying back power at a premium price - so the pay back time is quite long compared to germany where they have compulsory premium buy back for a period of time.

 

I would love to whack a load of cells on the roof and have an earn off the elect company - but the facts with the current figures is if we go ahead it will take about 20-30 years to break even. Not really worth the risk...

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 Originally Posted By: fjef
The Prius does just fine over 60mph - even at higher speeds (the Prius is capable of well over 100mph) your fuel economy is better than other cars on the road with the added advantage of much cleaner emissions. I have a Prius in Japan (city, rural and highway driving) and my parents have one in Canada (they log more highway miles that I do) and although the driving conditions are very different, we are all very satisfied with the fuel economy, performance and reliability.

Waiting for hydrogen cells makes no sense when viable hybrid options exist for the vast majority of actual driving conditions but it is unfortunate that there are not more hybrid options based on the system used in the Prius. I would also go for a Hybrid Estima without all the extra crap they come with.


Big problem with the hybrids, of all persuasions, is the fact that the batteries need replacing well inside the payback period for the fuel savings, and then you are behind in the payback schedule again.

Until battery life improves dramatically, and you can get a reasonable time out of them (like somewhere near break even point) they will continue to be mere curiosities.

The distance travelled thing, is not such a problem with the Prius (at least I have seen one in Tamworth that was driven up from Sydney - for those not in the know, that's about 500km - with no dramas)
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A mate just recently go a photovoltaic system, here are his thoughts:

 

1. no use getting one unless you also have full solar water heating, and gas cooking.

2. it won't pay for itself quickly if you have kids. Also consider the inverter is usually good for about 10 years - it costs $3,000!

3. Make sure the inverter is a reputable make e.g. made in Germany, because there are lots of cheapies flooding the market from China, etc.

4. Change light bulbs to compact fluro's

5. Electricity production varies according to temperature. Optimum production is at 25C, over or under this ambient temperature production drops.

6. Compared to the US, solar panels are expensive here. Also, bear in mind that technology changes rapidly - new solar panels are due out soon that maximise production.

 

Basically, it's a combination of many small changes that make the system more profitable, rather than making one big change.

 

Water tanks: under the 'solar cities' project, the government only provides rebates for tanks over 2,000 litres.

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 Originally Posted By: SubZero
Water tanks: under the 'solar cities' project, the government only provides rebates for tanks over 2,000 litres.


Which government? The Oceania government? (that's where you are from, according to the profile).

In NSW, the same, but 2000litres is a pi$$y little tank! Why would you bother, I mean, really! My house has 25m x 14m of roof. It has 3 x 6500 gallon (too lazy to do the conversion) tanks on 3/4ths of it, and the other quarter goes to another 5000 gal tank. The garage has 5000gals tank, a cottage (also on the same 2.5ha block) has 2 x 5000 gal tanks and a 1000 gal on its carport. The garden shed (6m x 3m) has 1000 gal tank, the bore pump/machinery shed (6m x 3m) has a 2000 gal tank. Not a single roof on the whole place withouta tank attached!

OK, granted, we have no access to reticulated water supply, but have never run totally dry in tje 12 years we've been here.

As for solar, the hot water on the house is elect boosted solar, the cottage is LPG. They both have wood heaters for internal heating in winter and windows for a cool breeze in summer (oh, and verandahs to keep the sun off the windows). We are considering mounting a solar collector on the North facing slope of the cottage roof and feeding that back into the grid.

Anyone know if the grid connect needs just connecting up, or if there has to be a feed cable to the meter box (ours is 200m from the cottage at the other end of the block!)?
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JA,

When we got quotes to have the work done

(I am still fuming the price just went up $8000)

the fellow said - ohhh good the meter box is right next to the location we would place the cells (on the garage - nothing else is north facing!!), that is good, not too far to hook up.

 

I would infer from that it needs a feed cable. Also needs the meter replaced to one that has two dials one for in and one for out.

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Unfortunately here in the Niseko region any form of solar heating (besides positioning your house and good use of windows) would be a waste of time. We also can't have tank water as gutters don't last on roofs with metres of snow sliding off them. Great for places like WA though MB.

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