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 Quote:
Is there a problem with that?


Not at all.

 Quote:
If you go back to the original post,


Do you mean my original post?

 Quote:
....the writer actually brought the topic up and there were a few references to shady foreigners that I wanted to address.


Yes, but then you went off on a complete tangent and into your own world of imaginary discussion. With yourself.

Talk about what you want mate. Obviously you will. If it's unrelated bollocks though, expect people to respond.
Having said that, I won't be anymore. \:\)

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 Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps
 Quote:
Is there a problem with that?


Not at all.

 Quote:
If you go back to the original post,


Do you mean my original post?

 Quote:
....the writer actually brought the topic up and there were a few references to shady foreigners that I wanted to address.


Yes, but then you went off on a complete tangent into your own world.

Talk about what you want mate. Obviously you will. If it's unrelated bollocks though, expect people to respond. Having said that, I won't be anymore.



OK, but what is bollocks to you as a 10-day tourist might not be to others living and doing business here and trying to create harmony for everyone.
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triptaka, do you actually read and think about the meaning in the posts (both here and in the other thread), or do you just see a few words scattered around and then like a bull seeing red fly off in a rage to your own pre-determined discussion with yourself?

 

If you actually took time to read the things and consider what is being said, you might see the comments in a different - and as they are meant - light, rather than misunderstand them as you so obviously do.

 

(Sorry about hijacking the thread a bit. I'll retire from it too).

 

Interesting story about 47.

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 Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
In answer to your question though, I only spent a short time at Higashiyama this year but I noticed they've closed one of the gondolas and opened up a bit more terrain for those who like their snow moderately wooded. They've also put signs up explaining that they're doing avie research with the aim of opening more terrain. I'm not sure whether all this is only this year (and therefore related to the new owner) but it seems pretty progressive. On the other hand it looks like bugger all has happened at Hanazono during the years that the Aussies owned it. The park this year (the 10 days I was there anyway) looked to be heaps better than previous years but apart from that it still looks like it did 5 years ago.

I know there has been a lot of back and forth about development and the pros and cons and I can understand both views but as a fly in fly out tourist these days, I have to say that the change in Niseko and the increased off snow services really are great. Decent rentals, information, transport, restraurants, accomodation, ski schools and childminding services and on it goes. Niseko is such a busy and fun town these days it is hard to beleive it is a Japanese resort. It is a world away from the Shiga Kogan type experiences and the comments made in the thread about working at the Japanese ski resort.


Agree! I saw major changes in just the one building season between April 07 and January 08. Some enjoy getting off the beaten track and don't want to luxury condo's and 5 star resturants - fair enough ... there are still plenty of 'resorts' for them to visit that provide what they want...but the beds are full in Niseko, so clearly someone is enjoying whats on offer now (me included). Change is always scary, but it is sometimes just what was needed too.
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London dudes, why are you jumping on Triptaka for discussing his different point of view? It makes for interesting discussion no? That's why we are here isn't it, to see different points of view and then to diss them. Be cool ;\)

 

And now back to the regular programming.

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I'll come out of retirement from this thread for that thursday.

 

Of course different points of view are interesting etc.

But his different point of view was not, and is not, the point.

 

Anyway peace on earth, etc, etc.

 

Back to retirement! You could call me a pink peacock and I would not come back ;\)

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Pink Peacock...

 

back on topic...

From one of the guys at HAPPO

"- the investers would like to link up Groyu/47 to Happo to Iwatake to Tsugaike"

...locals are very sceptical ."

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 Originally Posted By: 2pints,mate
triptaka, do you actually read and think about the meaning in the posts (both here and in the other thread), or do you just see a few words scattered around and then like a bull seeing red fly off in a rage to your own pre-determined discussion with yourself?

If you actually took time to read the things and consider what is being said, you might see the comments in a different - and as they are meant - light, rather than misunderstand them as you so obviously do.

(Sorry about hijacking the thread a bit. I'll retire from it too).

Interesting story about 47.


Yes, sorry about that. I think I have completely misunderstood. Please accept my apologies.
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 Originally Posted By: TJ OZ

you would have to think that an American company will follow an American model.


I've skied in Colorado but never skied in Europe. I'd like to know the difference between American model and European model.
What's the difference and which model will suit for Hakuba? confused.gif
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 Originally Posted By: slow
 Originally Posted By: TJ OZ

you would have to think that an American company will follow an American model.


I've skied in Colorado but never skied in Europe. I'd like to know the difference between American model and European model.
What's the difference and which model will suit for Hakuba? confused.gif


well in europe you can ski where you like, get drunk as hell and conga-line across the runs in the late arvo
i personally would like to see a european model adopted (minus the dodgy fashion, high costs, bad snow and long lift lines)
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 Originally Posted By: slow

I've skied in Colorado but never skied in Europe. I'd like to know the difference between American model and European model.
What's the difference and which model will suit for Hakuba? confused.gif

Another difference is that in North America, huge companies like Intrawest control the whole mountain and have built resort 'villages' to service guests, whereas the towns and villages in Europe have existed long before skiing. So in North America, everything is designed for YOU, on your ski vacation, but in Europe, you're visiting real towns. Europe is much more cultural but much less convenient for vacationers (though I think they're trying to make things more convenient these days, with more ski-in/ski-out condos and stuff, following the North American model)

Japan is like Europe, in that places like Hakuba were not originally designed for skiers. Those rice farmers didn't come to Hakuba so that they could feed us on our ski vacations.
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Right.

 

 Originally Posted By: ger
Japan is like Europe, in that places like Hakuba were not originally designed for skiers.

...but unlike Europe in that there apparently aren't many congas.

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personally think this is a big step forward for the area. whether it's linking 47 and happo under one lift pass, developing empty tracts of land near the lifts, demolishing so many antiquated bldgs in the Hakuba area, etc etc, it will absolutely increase land values, rental prices, vacancy rates at pensions go down and prices go up. the losers will be the ones who aren't running their businesses correctly in the first place. the bad part is that the resort becomes more crowded, but it'll all be on the groomers. Foreign-owned or not, improvement has to happen in the area.

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> but it'll all be on the groomers.

 

actually I reckon you'd find that as the tourist numbers pick up so will BC tour operators and day trippers and others seeking out the powder. All the easy powder will go very quickly. As with Niskeo now, on a clear day you'll be able to see hikers and tour groups (some well prepared, some not so well prepared) all over the hills with tracks every where.

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 Originally Posted By: TheOrange
About how much does a ski resort cost I wonder? ;\)


Fortress Investment Group bought Intrawest in 2006 for $1.8bn. So they effectively bought 10 resorts including Mammoth, Whistler, Copper, Winter Park, Stratton, & Tremblant.

Re your second question it doesn't sound like they intend to make any changes to the management, staff, etc. What we are probably likely to see is intrawest style land and hotel development and expansion of services. That being said, i wouldn't be complaining if they relaxed the rules at 47 a bit.
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 Originally Posted By: TJ OZ
Hakuba has already had it's time as one of the most popular resorts in the world, be it a domestic market. Current figures show that the western market makes up 3% of the total visitors in the Valley.


Hakuba will NOT become a major western ski place, because:

Ski is not that big in Asia outside Japan
Japan is relatively expensive (at least in the imagination of many)
Japan is expensive to reach
Japan is too far for most
No very nearby int. airport

I can't see a big influx of US or EU tourists, which have great ski places at the same time in their own backyard. And I wonder how many Oz and NZ people escape their summer heat to Japan.

I am not sure were the figure "3%" comes from, but it should be split into "real" foreign tourists, and foreigners that work in Japan. Saying that, when I was there a few weeks ago our whole place was booked by people from Hong Kong (were skiing is not a big sport at all).
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There's a huge market just across the sea. And since the Chinese resorts are still shit, and the booming Chinese middle class are wanting places to go, maybe somebody can do something about it.

 

But then again, masses of Chinese hitting Japan would be a nightmare for immigration.

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 Originally Posted By: Kraut_in_HongKong
Hakuba will NOT become a major western ski place, because:Ski is not that big in Asia outside Japan
Japan is relatively expensive (at least in the imagination of many)
Japan is expensive to reach
Japan is too far for most
No very nearby int. airport


I am no expert , but my belief is that skiing and snowboarding is currently taking on a big resurgence in popularity particularly among Aussies - probably as they have the disposable income to indulge right now!

Japan may have been expensive for international tourists in years gone by (I was not watching the exhange rate back then!) but I know we have personally dispelled the myth that Japan is WAY expensive with people we have met - it is not. In fact I have found that my Ski holidays to Japan have cost about the same or less as my ski holidays to Thredbo even despite the higher airfare cost when averaged over the length of the trip. And on that topic, Japan is no more expensive to reach than any other flight to snow - and from Aus, NZ, HK etc it would be cheaper than flying to EU or USA.

International Airport - fair call... but plenty of people seemed to have successfully trekked it to Hakuba without disaster.... if the new owners build huge new western developments they will want the people to come, therefore they will logically find simple ways to transport the people - package deals WILL be introduced that see you picked up at Narita. It is good business sense.

 Originally Posted By: Kraut_in_HongKong
I can't see a big influx of US or EU tourists, which have great ski places at the same time in their own backyard. And I wonder how many Oz and NZ people escape their summer heat to Japan.

Maybe not a huge number of US or EU snow lovers, but a lot of people who live near snow still travel to experience DIFFERENT places - how many Aussie Surfers travel to Hawaii on a 'pilgramage'? LOTS! As the word about Japanese snow is out, and people return to thier local haunts with stories of the big lines they found at Hakuba I can't see why some of those people wont add Japan to thier list of 'things to do before they die'.

As for Oz and NZ tourists - Japan is the big thing over here at the moment, every 2nd person you meet has been to, is planning on going or has a best mate who has been to Niseko. Why Niseko - because it is marketed well and word of mouth. I see no reason why Hakuba will not be the same if marketed similarly, and if that is what the owners want to achieve. In fact there is some attraction to not having to catch yet another plane to get to Hokkaiddo.

And as for HK...there are a lot of expats there...I would imagine that the Europeans used to ducking over to Austria for some skiing would be VERY tempted by Japan on their doorstep instead of a massive trek home. When mobs of the expats in HK are heading over, even if there is no local culture for skiing (not saying there isn't mind you - I would not have a clue), the boardroom/lunch room chatter about the great holiday in Japan blah blah blah, and you have a whole new generation of people wanting to give it a go on the recommendation of others.

I would love to add Hakuba to my list of 'must do one day', along with Vail, Whistler and a host of others, never been there, but being a foreign visitor to Japan for snow, I can see how IF THE NEW OWNERS wanted to market it to the west, that it would be successful.
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