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Hakuba Now: Avalanche accident! - I have questions!


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:confused:

Mamabear are you critiscising FT or Big Dogg? I didn't get what you mean.

I thought Big Dogg was saying that sometimes the signs are there when they don't need to be and made some comment on what the patrol should and shouldn't be doing. Then FT said he wss an idiot for posting that?

 

 

 

 

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 Originally Posted By: Mamabear
Simple fact is I don't know enough about snowpack safety to make good judgments. That is one of the big reasons why I am not going out of bounds at this stage of the game.


Me too. I am sure there are some experts which can identify dangerous areas and can handle those. I am not one of them.

To me, the simple thought of sliding down a nice hill, arriving at the bottom, with no lift in sight, and have to walk for hours in skiboots in deep deep snow, not exactly certain what directions to go, is enough to keep me in well groomed ares!

Can I have more tape please!
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I got this message from Tsugaike resort this morning.

 

いつも栂池高原観光協会の主催するアンケート調査にご協力

をいただき、ありがとうございます。

3日午後4時ごろ、栂池高原スキー場において「立入禁止」

規制中のコースに入ったお客様が雪崩に巻き込まれる事故が

発生し、昨日までに被災者お二人の死亡が確認されました。

栂池高原観光協会では、お二人のご冥福を心よりお祈りする

とともに、事故で怪我をされた皆様の回復を心よりお祈り申

し上げます。

栂池高原スキー場パトロールでは、毎朝リフトの運行開始前

に、全ゲレンデの安全確認をするとともに、随時パトロール

を行い、皆さまの安全確保に努めております。

雪崩の危険性があると判断した場合は、コース入り口をネッ

トで封鎖するとともに「立入禁止」の標識板を設置し、コー

スへの立入を禁止しております。

今回の事故の詳細については現在警察で調査中ですが、栂池

高原観光協会といたしましても、これを教訓に、さらなる

安全対策を進め、皆さまに安全で楽しいスノーリゾートライフ

を提供できるように努めてまいります。

皆さまも「自分の身は自分で守る」という気持ちで、規制

表示やパトロールの指示などに従って安全に楽しくスキー・

スノーボードをお楽しみ頂きたく、お願い申し上げます。

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So any discussion on avalanches should only be discussed by those who know what they are talking about FT?

Those interested in the topic and wanting to learn more should just sit back and wait for you to enlighten them?

As far as I can tell you are not a moderator on this forum so have no real say on what can be talked about and by whom. You're just a guy with way too much time on his hands Mr 10,000+ post boy!

cool.gif

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I think what FT is trying to say is that there's no information about this incident yet (the avy mentioned in the Hakuba now report) so it's pointless for people to go on about who was irresponsible etc without knowing the facts

 

 

 

 

 Originally Posted By: Go Native
So any discussion on avalanches should only be discussed by those who know what they are talking about FT?

 

hmmm, think about what you just wrote..... sounds like a good idea to me!

Do you want to read a long thread about something deadly like avalanches written by people who don't know what they're talking about????? but anyways, we don't know ANYTHING about this Hakuba Now! avy so what more can be written about it?

 

 Originally Posted By: Go Native

Those interested in the topic and wanting to learn more should just sit back and wait for you to enlighten them?

actually, FT has a wealth of knowledge about snow & the backcountry and many on these forums have learnt alot from him.

 

 Originally Posted By: Go Native

As far as I can tell you are not a moderator on this forum so have no real say on what can be talked about and by whom. You're just a guy with way too much time on his hands Mr 10,000+ post boy!

cool.gif

 

aaah, post-count envy rears it's ugly head again!

 

lol.gif

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Actually Kuma, GN's comments were addressed to this:

 

 Originally Posted By: Fattwins
MB that was an idiot comment period. You no crap about snowpack safety really and im sorry you shouldnt be talking about it period!

Be an armchair quarterback but at least know something!

Ill leave it at that untill I know more!

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 Originally Posted By: thursday.
Actually Kuma, GN's comments were addressed to this:

 Originally Posted By: Fattwins
MB that was an idiot comment period. You no crap about snowpack safety really and im sorry you shouldnt be talking about it period!
Be an armchair quarterback but at least know something!
Ill leave it at that untill I know more!


I know. I thought I had covered that in my post...
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Once again,

keep the grammar rules up, mates. I can understand why one person thinks they're being blamed for not knowing squat about snow-dynamics and another thinking they're being blamed for not knowing the facts about the situation. It took kuma to come in and explain it all. I for one was lost the whole time. Kuma knows FT and can interject tone.

 

I think 10,000+ posts = loosing all bility 2 keep it makin eny since. ;\)

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I just thought FT was getting a little harsh with a contributor to this forum and pointing out that it's not up him to be telling others whether they should or should not be talking about something. If MB wants to contribute who is FT to tell her not to?

Just because he's spent a fair portion of his life contributing to this forum doesn't mean, at least as far as I am concerned, that he can tell others what they can discuss.

And Kumapix it's not about whether or not I want to read a long thread about avalanches with contributions by those who know little. It's about who is FT or any of us besides those who run and moderate this forum to tell others not to contribute.

Whether he means to or not with comments like those directed at MB, FT comes across as an arrogant ass.

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For anyone interested in the Tsugaike report that SLOW posted:

Police are still investigating the incident, so there is no official report. From Tsugaike Resort: patrol always confirms that each course is safe before opening the lifts every day. (There is no mention of closed courses or dealing with areas around courses within the resort that might affect the courses set to be open.) Courses deemed to be in danger of avalanches will be closed off by a "????"(Do not enter) sign, not an avalanche warning sign (though I still maintain that some resorts unnecessarily use the latter). They go on to say that they will take preventitive measures so that this will not happen again. And that they maintain a "protect yourself" attitude, perhaps meaning that you are responsible for your own actions rather than being policed by patrol.

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 Originally Posted By: Go Native
I just thought FT was getting a little harsh with a contributor to this forum...

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Seems pretty clear if you go back and read what MB said and what FT said. Someone forget to take their meds?
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 Originally Posted By: samurai
It took kuma to come in and explain it all. I for one was lost the whole time. Kuma knows FT and can interject tone.


I don't really think Kuma cleared anything up.
The tone was pretty clear to me.. thumbsdown.gif
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 Originally Posted By: Big Dogg
For anyone interested in the Tsugaike report that SLOW posted:
Police are still investigating the incident, so there is no official report. From Tsugaike Resort: patrol always confirms that each course is safe before opening the lifts every day. (There is no mention of closed courses or dealing with areas around courses within the resort that might affect the courses set to be open.) Courses deemed to be in danger of avalanches will be closed off by a "????"(Do not enter) sign, not an avalanche warning sign (though I still maintain that some resorts unnecessarily use the latter). They go on to say that they will take preventitive measures so that this will not happen again. And that they maintain a "protect yourself" attitude, perhaps meaning that you are responsible for your own actions rather than being policed by patrol.


Yes, according to the kanji post by Slow there was no "Avalanche Warning" sign posted.
Only a "Keep Out" sign and the entrance was netted off.

It was a group of 9 people. 7 Students and 2 part-time teachers. 7 people passed
beyond the "keep out" sign including the two teachers and were caught in the slide.
Two people didn't make it. I haven't read any detailed interviews but I guess they
just spaced it off instead of deliberately disobeying the signage. I mean two were
teachers right? They probably wouldn't say "Ah screw it, let's fly... Weeee...." if
they were with and responsible for 5 students.

Something I find rather incredible about this though. I've worked at more than a
few ski resorts in snow management and etc. and avalanche conditions are usually
very very obvious. If you're going to open a resort with an unsafe run you always
ALWAYS want to post one or two individuals near the entrance to the dangerous
area! Just posting a sign and putting up a net is entirely irresponsible IMO. I've
never seen that happen before!

Many people just don't look or think the netting is for other purposes - and then
there are kids and stuff.

If this were the USA this would be a huge negligence suit! It may yet be here too.

Simply ridiculous!
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Well, Fatts has a wealth of knowledge about these things and he can share and educate. Instead he chooses to say 'shut the fxxx up' to people who want to share and learn. Fair enough, shut the xxxx up if your comments are intended to be authorative on the subject but are based on nothing. But Fatts' approach aint the way to go.

 

Shut the xxxx up if you are potentially putting lives at danger. Shut the xxx up if you are potentially gonna put peoples' life savings into jeoperdy.(<--spelling?)

 

Mamabear wanted to share, she was slammed unnecessarily. Fatts, you got to work on your EQ. And spelling and grammar for that matter.

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