stemik 14 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: Mamabear Market them to the international travellers... Pick a specialty - ski/board school for kiddies is a winner with the parents! What about teenager boarding classes/groups focussed on that market - the kids nag the parent to go ...the parents pay the money to fly half way around the world so they can! Link with airlines, transfer buses to the door, and add inclusions like Lift tickets to the package. Easy done for them - put it out there and they will come. hahaha you make it sound so so easy.... Link to post Share on other sites
quattro 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Halfmachine Teine was wind packed rather bad on Sunday. They need more snow. several trails are not open yet. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Noticed this at gala the other week - popped up on a Monday - was dead quiet, yet their main lift from 'cheers' up to gigi was fully ladenned with the chairs but no queues. Was great for me - straight up and back down and straight up again - but you gotta wonder if last season put a lot of people off. Hopefully Kagura will be like that next week Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan#Andrew 6 Posted January 16, 2008 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 16, 2008 Quote: Mamabear, the Japanese don't like the gaijin market... SJ1 has said that many times. Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I have never said that and I do not even think that. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think Japanese resorts would be happy to attract a more international market to bolster the declining domestic market. The problem is most of them have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I think SJ#1 (correct me if I'm wrong) did point out that those hired to do marketing for resorts often have no qualifications or experience. Even here in Niseko, Tokyu Resorts who own the Hirafu area, as far as I know have no foreign staff on their marketing team or any other part of their operations. With such a large proportion of skiers now coming from overseas it seems utter madness not to have some foreigners with experience in management in major overseas ski resorts. I for one believe it's time for Tokyu to sell up and let someone in who know what the hell they are doing. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 16, 2008 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 16, 2008 Quote: I think SJ#1 (correct me if I'm wrong) did point out that those hired to do marketing for resorts often have no qualifications or experience. Yes he said that Go Native, and it is true though I am not personally involved in that kind of thing. He should know, I'd guess that he probably knows more (managers at) Japanese ski resorts than any other gaijin and he has a very positive relationships with quite a lot of Japanese ski resorts and actively gets involved in resort associations etc. The fact that he started this site and continues to develop it so actively every year and try to do what he (or "SJ") can do to open up Japan winter sports to the outside world says a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 yes agree Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: SJ#1 Quote: Mamabear, the Japanese don't like the gaijin market... SJ1 has said that many times. Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I have never said that and I do not even think that. Sorry for misquoting you SJ1. That's just my interpretation of the things going on in the industry. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I will be at N in March. I am paying 33,000 per night in a local hotel. I specifically choose local hotels as they are owned and run by Japanese who have been there since year dot. I will be eating like a pig and drinking like a Scot and that will be in a different establishment each meal. I intend to spend not less than 10,000 per meal 'cos I am on hols and I will be drinking from breakfast onwards. So, what I am saying is I will be spending 250,000yen for 6 days in a ski resort. And then I am going to Sapporo to pick up some nice baby clothes. If I didn't know about Niseko, I wouldn't be there. Now how many other ski resorts market themselves like this one? Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan#Andrew 6 Posted January 16, 2008 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thanks thursday. It's ok. I have of course said that there are many issues and also frustrations but I also meet many people who are very keen to do something about it. It's the people and resorts with that attitude that I try to spend time talking with. (Not always, but I can often tell almost straight away when I speak with someone for the first time if it will be worth talking or not). Quote: Even here in Niseko, Tokyu Resorts who own the Hirafu area, as far as I know have no foreign staff on their marketing team or any other part of their operations. That really does surprise me. It's really hard to believe, isn't it? Have a good time in Niseko, thursday. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 SJ#1 they may consult with foreigners on producing english materials and other translating and they are involved in the Niseko Promotion Board which has representatives from all major businesses in town (foreign and Japanese). I am unaware though of any foreigners at management level. I would think with the amount of foreigners now converging on Hirafu having an insight into their needs and wants would be paramount for a resort owner....but this is Japan. What frustrates me the most is that much of the big money being made in this town is being made by foreigners. Sure plenty of Japanese have sold up their property for a good price but it's always being sold to a foreigner. I just wish that more Japanese were investing here and making the incredible returns that all the foreign investors are. This place is a gold mine and few Japanese are partaking in the boom. Link to post Share on other sites
AK 77 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: thursday. Well this is not the fault of the lifties. I was in the singles line at King 3 hooded no less. I walked towards the chair and the couple in the queue did not want to get on. They did not like me. So I ended up going alone in a 3 seater hooded. Nice....... That is the fault of the lifties. In countries where they have singles lines, etc, the lifties CONTROL the queue, not just thank it for being there. It is the job of the liftie to tell people to get on, if they are hanging back and causing delays, just as it is their job to stop people trying to get on when there is no room! This would actually give them something meaningful to do, rather than just repeating unnecessary greetings which must be a form of brain damage. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 16, 2008 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 16, 2008 I just thought this might be of interest. This is Nunoba in central Yuzawa, 20 minutes ago - both of those lifts were moving. (I think it must be lunchtime with all those skis stacked up there!) A quick drive around and it was similar at a few other places as well... Link to post Share on other sites
quattro 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Quote: I just thought this might be of interest. This is Nunoba in central Yuzawa, 20 minutes ago - both of those lifts were moving. (I think it must be lunchtime with all those skis stacked up there!) What a perfect time to be out getting some runs. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted January 16, 2008 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 16, 2008 Definitely. I always make sure I am out on the hills at "official lunchtime". But seriously, it was empty - sure didn't feel like mid-season when I just had a wander about... sadly, more like ghost town! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 that is sad. At a ski resort you want to see people having a good time. That'll cheer you up even more. An empty place gives me a creepy feeling. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: AK 77 Originally Posted By: thursday. Well this is not the fault of the lifties. I was in the singles line at King 3 hooded no less. I walked towards the chair and the couple in the queue did not want to get on. They did not like me. So I ended up going alone in a 3 seater hooded. Nice....... That is the fault of the lifties. In countries where they have singles lines, etc, the lifties CONTROL the queue, not just thank it for being there. It is the job of the liftie to tell people to get on, if they are hanging back and causing delays, just as it is their job to stop people trying to get on when there is no room! This would actually give them something meaningful to do, rather than just repeating unnecessary greetings which must be a form of brain damage. I don't see it that way, if the liftie pointed the couple to the empty seats and the couple preferred to wait for the next one, then that's up to the couple (who have paid for the ticket and are the customers). If the liftie then got rude and pushy about it, then that would spoil the day for all involved. Link to post Share on other sites
AK 77 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ok, so if the checkout lady (or man) is waiting in the supermarket, and I am at the front of the queue, it's up to me whether I move forward and give her my shopping, or just chill for a minute or two, and she shouldn't ask me to come forward? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 you do what you want Link to post Share on other sites
samurai 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I can understand people's (westerners') frustration about not loading the lifts to full capacity when there is a long queue. but this is Japan. skiing and snowboarding to the average person here is a social and family activity. Most japanese skiers and boarders could give a rats ass about how quickly they can get back to the top. I say get over it. use the single's lane if it bothers you that much. Link to post Share on other sites
boardbaka 3 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd say those skis (prob owned by a hotel as loads with yellow tips) stacked like that would be some kind of lesson having lunch as opposed to normal customers if they were even been used at all that day ! Link to post Share on other sites
AK 77 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Single's lines? How many Japanese resorts have them? They are a N.American thing, I think - hardly ever see them in Europe (but you can snake the ski-school gate if you are feeling naughty). I am over it. Queuing in France has it's own downsides too. It is a good example of the relativity of manners within a country - plenty of manners here are based on not inconveniencing others, yet that is exactly what people do when they so socially backward they can't get on a chairlift with other people. It doesn't go for everyone - I totally understand families want to go up together, and will happily drop back / shuffle people in the queue to let that happen. It's the people who want to take pair lifts on their own 'cos they are 'Enryo sugiru' that piss me off. Ha ha. I am clearly not over it. Oh well, worse things happen at sea. Link to post Share on other sites
Kumapix 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 at Happo the only singles line is at the gondola....but it's only 2/3 meters long (inside the building). If you're a single (during the holidays for example) you have to line up outside with everyone and wait and wait before you can even get in to the singles line. at Cortina the lifties were checking tickets AS we were about to get on the lift. Some of the guys had to open pockets to find the tickets and so missed a lift. It's sooooo common sense to have them check tickets at the start of the queue and to have a guy pairing people off into 2's and 4's depending on the capacity of the chair. I would be so pissed at the couple that didn't get on the chair with Thursday if it was a long lineup. At Whistler you'd get snowballed for that Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 If they stop lifts that are needed to keep courses open, not much of a resort is it? Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The few resorts that I have been to have had 1 person lines. TBH Its not something that bothers me, sure I wanna get up the hill AQAP and I don't particularly like standing in long queues but I don't really get worked up about it. AK, I understand what you are saying, the liftie should encourage people to make up the numbers on the lifts BUT they can't insist and force people on. I think that is rude and would be way more madder if a liftie was pushy and tried to intimidate me to get on the lift. I would think that that would encourage people to stay away from the resort and so damaging it more Link to post Share on other sites
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